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Thread: All Japanese emperors and shōguns and most daimyō shared the same Y-DNA lineage

  1. #1
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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.

    Post All Japanese emperors and shōguns and most daimyō shared the same Y-DNA lineage

    We found out last year that the Emperors of Japan probably belonged to haplogroup D1b1a2 based on the tests of various descendants. Another presumed descendant of the imperial family tested at Family Tree DNA and also belonged to that haplogroup, and more precisely to the D-Z1504 subclade. A Japanese article claimed that 6 million Japanese men (10% of the male population of Japan) carry the same Y-DNA lineage as the Imperial family and that they share a common ancestor about 1000 years ago.

    Many medieval emperors had illegitimate offspring (Emperor Saga alone fathered 49 children), who were bestowed the surnames Minamoto (Genji), Taira (Heike) or Tachibana, who in turn became powerful aristocratic clans of their own. The Minamoto and Taira became the ancestors of dozens of samurai clans (see below), while the Tachibana became one of the four most powerful kuge (court nobility) families in Japan's Nara and early Heian periods. A few samurai clans descend from Japanese emperors through imperial princes. This is the case of the Asakura clan.

    If this is correct, it could mean that all Japanese emperors and a great number of daimyo (feudal lords) and samurai families would have belonged to haplogroup D1b1a2, if non-paternity events did not occur.

    I have made my own research and found that the Minamoto are the patrilineal ancestors of daimyo clans such as the Akamatsu, Akechi, Amago, Ashikaga (Muromachi-era shōguns), Hatakeyama, Hosokawa, Ikeda, Imagawa, Kitabatake, Kuroda, Matsudaira, Miyoshi, Mogami, Mori, Nanbu, Nitta, Ogasawara, Ōta, Rokkaku, Sakai, Sasaki, Satake, Satomi, Shiba, Shimazu, Takeda, Toki, Tokugawa (Edo-era shōguns), and Tsuchiya. A few kuge (court aristocracy) families also descend from the Minamoto, such as the Koga.

    The Taira clan descends from four 9th-century emperors (Kanmu, Ninmyō, Montoku and Kōkō) and were the ancestors of several daimyo families such as the Ashina, Chiba, Hōjō (Kamakura-era shōguns), Miura, Sōma, and Oda (whose most famous member was Oda Nobunaga, who started the reunification of Japan during the Sengoku period).


    Only a few daimyo clans did not descend from the Y-DNA line of the Imperial family. Most, however, descend from the Fujiwara family, who intermarried with the Imperial family almost every generation during the Heian period(794–1185) and therefore can be considered the same family (the maternal branch). The Fujiwara clan customarily served as regents and ministers (sadaijin and udaijin), which allowed them to dominate Japanese politics throughout the Heian period. Their descendant remained court nobles until 1945. Only a few notable samurai families descend from the Fujiwara Y-DNA line. These include the Adachi, Ashikaga (Fujiwara), Azai, Date, Gamō, Honda, Ii, Itō, Niwa, Tsugaru, Uesugi and Utsunomiya. Among them the Date and Uesugi in eastern and northern Honshu distinguished themselves during the Sengoku period. The Honda and Ii were retainers of the Matsudaira/Tokugawa clan and became powerful after Tokugawa Ieyasu established the last shogunate.

    At least three descendants from the Fujiwara clan tested their Y-DNA at Family Tree DNA and all belonged to haplogroup O1b2a1 (formerly known as O2b1a), and more specifically to O-47Z(aka CTS10674 or CTS11986). This haplogroup is found in 24% of the Japanese population. Yfull list a few deeper branches but more research is needed to determine the deep clade associated specifically with the Fujiwara.


    I could only find a handful of notable daimyo clans that didn't descend either from the Imperial lineage or from the Fujiwara lineage. The most prominent was the Mōri clan (not to be confused with the Mori clan above), who were descended from the Ōe, a court aristocratic lineage from the Heian period related by marriage to the Imperial family.

    Another one was the Abe clan, one of the oldest in Japan, said to be one of the original clans of the Yamato people. The Hata clan is equally old and was founded by Chinese immigrants with the surname Qin (秦 ; Hata being the Japanese reading of that Chinese character) during the Kofun period (250–538). They became the ancestors of a number of samurai clans, such as the Akizuki, Chōsokabe, Kawakatsu and Tamura. Descendant testing at Family Tree DNA showed that that lineaged belonged to haplogroup O2a2b1a1 (formerly known as O3a2c1a), the most common lineage among Han Chinese, and specifically to the O-CTS10738 subclade found in both China and Japan.

    During the Sengoku period, there was also the Saitō clan (founded by a merchant who seized power in Mino province and became Oda Nobunaga's father-in-law) and the Toyotomi clan, founded by Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Oda Nobunaga's general who gradually rose in power a peasant family. They were recent parvenus whose lineage didn't last more than a few generations.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 13-05-18 at 13:18.
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    And D1b1a2 should be descended from the hunter-gatherers and not the farmers, lucky individual.

    And all these wars of the Sengoku period, they were just kinslayers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    And all these wars of the Sengoku period, they were just kinslayers.
    Yes, it all looks like a big family feud between different branches of the Imperial family vying for supremacy and never leaving any space for outsiders (except very briefly as with Toyotomi Hideyoshi). What is amazing is that all the famous samurai in history were members of the imperial paternal lineage, and that basically the same family controlled every aspect of society in Japan, from religious (emperor) to cultural and socio-economic (ministers and court nobles) to military (daimyo) for over 1000 years, since Japan exists as a unified country. Many of these aristocratic and samurai families still play an important role today, as politicians or presidents/chairmans of companies or organisations. For example, Morihiro Hosokawa, the head of the Hosokawa clan, served as Prime Minister of Japan in 1993-94.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Yes, it all looks like a big family feud between different branches of the Imperial family vying for supremacy and never leaving any space for outsiders (except very briefly as with Toyotomi Hideyoshi). What is amazing is that all the famous samurai in history were members of the imperial paternal lineage, and that basically the same family controlled every aspect of society in Japan, from religious (emperor) to cultural and socio-economic (ministers and court nobles) to military (daimyo) for over 1000 years, since Japan exists as a unified country. Many of these aristocratic and samurai families still play an important role today, as politicians or presidents/chairmans of companies or organisations. For example, Morihiro Hosokawa, the head of the Hosokawa clan, served as Prime Minister of Japan in 1993-94.
    Wow, I really want to know who that early ancestor is? is the time to the coomon ancestor 1000 years ? what happened at that time?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    Wow, I really want to know who that early ancestor is? is the time to the coomon ancestor 1000 years ? what happened at that time?
    It's approximately 1000 years, which corresponds to the Heian period, when emperors were particularly prolific sexually. The Taira clan dates back to the 9th century. The Minamoto clan started with Emperor Saga (also in the 9th century) who had 49 children. 18 emperors gave the Minamoto surname to their illegitimate offspring between the 9th and 17th centuries, but the most successfully lineage by far was the one descending from Emperor Seiwa (Seiwa Genji branch of the Minamoto) who included most of the daimyo clans listed above under Minamoto. Many of them descend from the Ashikaga shoguns (e.g. the Hosokawa, Imagawa, Hatakeyama, Shiba, Mogami, Takeda, Ogasawara, Nitta, Matsudaira, Tokugawa, Kira, Hachisuke, Ueno, Sakurai, etc.). Only the Nitta branch of the Ashikaga spawned the Tokugawa, Matsudaira, Yamana, Wakiya, Horiguchi, Odachi, Iwamatsu and Sakai. There are so many surnames because every time a cadet branch moves to a new fief, they adopt the name of the village/town where they settle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It's approximately 1000 years, which corresponds to the Heian period, when emperors were particularly prolific sexually. The Taira clan dates back to the 9th century. The Minamoto clan started with Emperor Saga (also in the 9th century) who had 49 children. 18 emperors gave the Minamoto surname to their illegitimate offspring between the 9th and 17th centuries, but the most successfully lineage by far was the one descending from Emperor Seiwa (Seiwa Genji branch of the Minamoto) who included most of the daimyo clans listed above under Minamoto. Many of them descend from the Ashikaga shoguns (e.g. the Hosokawa, Imagawa, Hatakeyama, Shiba, Mogami, Takeda, Ogasawara, Nitta, Matsudaira, Tokugawa, Kira, Hachisuke, Ueno, Sakurai, etc.). Only the Nitta branch of the Ashikaga spawned the Tokugawa, Matsudaira, Yamana, Wakiya, Horiguchi, Odachi, Iwamatsu and Sakai. There are so many surnames because every time a cadet branch moves to a new fief, they adopt the name of the village/town where they settle.
    I salute you Maciamo, you know a lot about Japanese nobility, my knoweledge of them comes from the Samurai Warriors games, where did you learn all of this ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    I salute you Maciamo, you know a lot about Japanese nobility, my knoweledge of them comes from the Samurai Warriors games, where did you learn all of this ?
    Well, I have lived in Japan for a few years, made a website about Japan, and I have read (and written) a lot about Japanese history.

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    Hello Maciamo! Has anyone studied the DNA of the Gozoku families of Matsu and Dewa? It is widely believed nowadays that they were emishi without genetic ties to the old Yamato clans whose names they bear, but the Fujiwara mummies appear to be Yamato (Yayoi rather than Jomon). From them some conclude that the Emishi were genetically the same as Yamato, but at the least they must have been a mixture. Known descendants of these clans are still about; Shinzu Abe is no doubt the best known now. I can't find anything in English. The gf is gozoku with flawless Japanese and idiosyncratic English, but is clueless about computers except for spread sheets in English (she learned what she knows by being an accountant for a gaijin firm in USA, never used Japanese computer). My Japanese consists of about two dozen words. I cannot find a thing in English on Gozoku, and while there may be literature in Japanese, she doesn't know how to search for it.

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    I read that haplogroup D1b is found at frequencies above 85% in Ainu population in Japan.

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    Emishi on Honshu were totally absorbed into the Japanese population, after holding out for centuries during the last three or four of which there must have been intermarriages. I have not learned what research has been done in trying to find Emishi genetic markers. Gozoku Fujiwara mummies looked like Yamato, so many concluded that unlike Ainu, Emishi were genetically the same as Yamato. But that follows only if you presuppose that the gozoku families were not Yamato but Emishi in origin, and there is not yet a consensus about that. If anyone has compared DNA of gozoku Fujiwara mummies with that of known descendants of the Yamato Fujiwara clan--the one Maciamo has identified as the second major source, after the imperials, of Shoguns and daimyos--I have not yet learned of it. This is the sort of thing I am trying to find.

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