All Japanese emperors and shōguns and most daimyō shared the same Y-DNA lineage

Maciamo

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We found out last year that the Emperors of Japan probably belonged to haplogroup D1b1a2 based on the tests of various descendants. Another presumed descendant of the imperial family tested at Family Tree DNA and also belonged to that haplogroup, and more precisely to the D-Z1504 subclade. A Japanese article claimed that 6 million Japanese men (10% of the male population of Japan) carry the same Y-DNA lineage as the Imperial family and that they share a common ancestor about 1000 years ago.

Many medieval emperors had illegitimate offspring (Emperor Saga alone fathered 49 children), who were bestowed the surnames Minamoto (Genji), Taira (Heike) or Tachibana, who in turn became powerful aristocratic clans of their own. The Minamoto and Taira became the ancestors of dozens of samurai clans (see below), while the Tachibana became one of the four most powerful kuge (court nobility) families in Japan's Nara and early Heian periods. A few samurai clans descend from Japanese emperors through imperial princes. This is the case of the Asakura clan.

If this is correct, it could mean that all Japanese emperors and a great number of daimyo (feudal lords) and samurai families would have belonged to haplogroup D1b1a2, if non-paternity events did not occur.

I have made my own research and found that the Minamoto are the patrilineal ancestors of daimyo clans such as the Akamatsu, Akechi, Amago, Ashikaga (Muromachi-era shōguns), Hatakeyama, Hosokawa, Ikeda, Imagawa, Kitabatake, Kuroda, Matsudaira, Miyoshi, Mogami, Mori, Nanbu, Nitta, Ogasawara, Ōta, Rokkaku, Sakai, Sasaki, Satake, Satomi, Shiba, Shimazu, Takeda, Toki, Tokugawa (Edo-era shōguns), and Tsuchiya. A few kuge (court aristocracy) families also descend from the Minamoto, such as the Koga.

The Taira clan descends from four 9th-century emperors (Kanmu, Ninmyō, Montoku and Kōkō) and were the ancestors of several daimyo families such as the Ashina, Chiba, Hōjō (Kamakura-era shōguns), Miura, Sōma, and Oda (whose most famous member was Oda Nobunaga, who started the reunification of Japan during the Sengoku period).


Only a few daimyo clans did not descend from the Y-DNA line of the Imperial family. Most, however, descend from the Fujiwara family, who intermarried with the Imperial family almost every generation during the Heian period(794–1185) and therefore can be considered the same family (the maternal branch). The Fujiwara clan customarily served as regents and ministers (sadaijin and udaijin), which allowed them to dominate Japanese politics throughout the Heian period. Their descendant remained court nobles until 1945. Only a few notable samurai families descend from the Fujiwara Y-DNA line. These include the Adachi, Ashikaga (Fujiwara), Azai, Date, Gamō, Honda, Ii, Itō, Niwa, Tsugaru, Uesugi and Utsunomiya. Among them the Date and Uesugi in eastern and northern Honshu distinguished themselves during the Sengoku period. The Honda and Ii were retainers of the Matsudaira/Tokugawa clan and became powerful after Tokugawa Ieyasu established the last shogunate.

At least three descendants from the Fujiwara clan tested their Y-DNA at Family Tree DNA and all belonged to haplogroup O1b2a1 (formerly known as O2b1a), and more specifically to O-47Z(aka CTS10674 or CTS11986). This haplogroup is found in 24% of the Japanese population. Yfull list a few deeper branches but more research is needed to determine the deep clade associated specifically with the Fujiwara.


I could only find a handful of notable daimyo clans that didn't descend either from the Imperial lineage or from the Fujiwara lineage. The most prominent was the Mōri clan (not to be confused with the Mori clan above), who were descended from the Ōe, a court aristocratic lineage from the Heian period related by marriage to the Imperial family.

Another one was the Abe clan, one of the oldest in Japan, said to be one of the original clans of the Yamato people. The Hata clan is equally old and was founded by Chinese immigrants with the surname Qin (秦 ; Hata being the Japanese reading of that Chinese character) during the Kofun period (250–538). They became the ancestors of a number of samurai clans, such as the Akizuki, Chōsokabe, Kawakatsu and Tamura. Descendant testing at Family Tree DNA showed that that lineaged belonged to haplogroup O2a2b1a1 (formerly known as O3a2c1a), the most common lineage among Han Chinese, and specifically to the O-CTS10738 subclade found in both China and Japan.

During the Sengoku period, there was also the Saitō clan (founded by a merchant who seized power in Mino province and became Oda Nobunaga's father-in-law) and the Toyotomi clan, founded by Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Oda Nobunaga's general who gradually rose in power a peasant family. They were recent parvenus whose lineage didn't last more than a few generations.
 
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And D1b1a2 should be descended from the hunter-gatherers and not the farmers, lucky individual.

And all these wars of the Sengoku period, they were just kinslayers.
 
And all these wars of the Sengoku period, they were just kinslayers.

Yes, it all looks like a big family feud between different branches of the Imperial family vying for supremacy and never leaving any space for outsiders (except very briefly as with Toyotomi Hideyoshi). What is amazing is that all the famous samurai in history were members of the imperial paternal lineage, and that basically the same family controlled every aspect of society in Japan, from religious (emperor) to cultural and socio-economic (ministers and court nobles) to military (daimyo) for over 1000 years, since Japan exists as a unified country. Many of these aristocratic and samurai families still play an important role today, as politicians or presidents/chairmans of companies or organisations. For example, Morihiro Hosokawa, the head of the Hosokawa clan, served as Prime Minister of Japan in 1993-94.
 
Yes, it all looks like a big family feud between different branches of the Imperial family vying for supremacy and never leaving any space for outsiders (except very briefly as with Toyotomi Hideyoshi). What is amazing is that all the famous samurai in history were members of the imperial paternal lineage, and that basically the same family controlled every aspect of society in Japan, from religious (emperor) to cultural and socio-economic (ministers and court nobles) to military (daimyo) for over 1000 years, since Japan exists as a unified country. Many of these aristocratic and samurai families still play an important role today, as politicians or presidents/chairmans of companies or organisations. For example, Morihiro Hosokawa, the head of the Hosokawa clan, served as Prime Minister of Japan in 1993-94.

Wow, I really want to know who that early ancestor is? is the time to the coomon ancestor 1000 years ? what happened at that time?
 
Wow, I really want to know who that early ancestor is? is the time to the coomon ancestor 1000 years ? what happened at that time?

It's approximately 1000 years, which corresponds to the Heian period, when emperors were particularly prolific sexually. The Taira clan dates back to the 9th century. The Minamoto clan started with Emperor Saga (also in the 9th century) who had 49 children. 18 emperors gave the Minamoto surname to their illegitimate offspring between the 9th and 17th centuries, but the most successfully lineage by far was the one descending from Emperor Seiwa (Seiwa Genji branch of the Minamoto) who included most of the daimyo clans listed above under Minamoto. Many of them descend from the Ashikaga shoguns (e.g. the Hosokawa, Imagawa, Hatakeyama, Shiba, Mogami, Takeda, Ogasawara, Nitta, Matsudaira, Tokugawa, Kira, Hachisuke, Ueno, Sakurai, etc.). Only the Nitta branch of the Ashikaga spawned the Tokugawa, Matsudaira, Yamana, Wakiya, Horiguchi, Odachi, Iwamatsu and Sakai. There are so many surnames because every time a cadet branch moves to a new fief, they adopt the name of the village/town where they settle.
 
It's approximately 1000 years, which corresponds to the Heian period, when emperors were particularly prolific sexually. The Taira clan dates back to the 9th century. The Minamoto clan started with Emperor Saga (also in the 9th century) who had 49 children. 18 emperors gave the Minamoto surname to their illegitimate offspring between the 9th and 17th centuries, but the most successfully lineage by far was the one descending from Emperor Seiwa (Seiwa Genji branch of the Minamoto) who included most of the daimyo clans listed above under Minamoto. Many of them descend from the Ashikaga shoguns (e.g. the Hosokawa, Imagawa, Hatakeyama, Shiba, Mogami, Takeda, Ogasawara, Nitta, Matsudaira, Tokugawa, Kira, Hachisuke, Ueno, Sakurai, etc.). Only the Nitta branch of the Ashikaga spawned the Tokugawa, Matsudaira, Yamana, Wakiya, Horiguchi, Odachi, Iwamatsu and Sakai. There are so many surnames because every time a cadet branch moves to a new fief, they adopt the name of the village/town where they settle.

I salute you Maciamo, you know a lot about Japanese nobility, my knoweledge of them comes from the Samurai Warriors games, where did you learn all of this ?
 
I salute you Maciamo, you know a lot about Japanese nobility, my knoweledge of them comes from the Samurai Warriors games, where did you learn all of this ?

Well, I have lived in Japan for a few years, made a website about Japan, and I have read (and written) a lot about Japanese history.
 
Hello Maciamo! Has anyone studied the DNA of the Gozoku families of Matsu and Dewa? It is widely believed nowadays that they were emishi without genetic ties to the old Yamato clans whose names they bear, but the Fujiwara mummies appear to be Yamato (Yayoi rather than Jomon). From them some conclude that the Emishi were genetically the same as Yamato, but at the least they must have been a mixture. Known descendants of these clans are still about; Shinzu Abe is no doubt the best known now. I can't find anything in English. The gf is gozoku with flawless Japanese and idiosyncratic English, but is clueless about computers except for spread sheets in English (she learned what she knows by being an accountant for a gaijin firm in USA, never used Japanese computer). My Japanese consists of about two dozen words. I cannot find a thing in English on Gozoku, and while there may be literature in Japanese, she doesn't know how to search for it.
 
I read that haplogroup D1b is found at frequencies above 85% in Ainu population in Japan.
 
Emishi on Honshu were totally absorbed into the Japanese population, after holding out for centuries during the last three or four of which there must have been intermarriages. I have not learned what research has been done in trying to find Emishi genetic markers. Gozoku Fujiwara mummies looked like Yamato, so many concluded that unlike Ainu, Emishi were genetically the same as Yamato. But that follows only if you presuppose that the gozoku families were not Yamato but Emishi in origin, and there is not yet a consensus about that. If anyone has compared DNA of gozoku Fujiwara mummies with that of known descendants of the Yamato Fujiwara clan--the one Maciamo has identified as the second major source, after the imperials, of Shoguns and daimyos--I have not yet learned of it. This is the sort of thing I am trying to find.
 
Questions about Japanese DNA

A couple of years ago, I found online a page with a diagram showing the distance from the Imperial family of clans in the D1b1 haplogroup (I don’t recall whether it covered other clans). They were laid out on a wavy line allowing them all to be displayed in normal page width. I cannot find this web page now; does anyone know what has happened to it?
I have been gathering information about the Mutsu Abe. All three Mutsu Gozoku families involved in the Former Nine Year’s Conflict have been suspected of being of local, Fushu origin, and hence unrelated to the ancient clans of the same names. I think every possible variation of opinion on the topic has been expressed (e.g. Abe & Kiyohara are Fushu, Fujiwara are ancient clan; Fujiwara is Fushu, Abe & Kiyohara are ancient clan; etc.). Masiamo has stated that almost all Japanese aristocratic families are related either to the Imperials (D1b1a2) or to Fujiwara (O1b2a1); Abe is among the comparative few related to neither. I presume he means ancient Abe. A relative of Shinzo Abe (Mutsu Abe) had his DNA tested, and YDNA haplotype (D1b1a2b1a1) shows definite relationship to Imperials, and is particularly close to Minamoto! I need more info. If ancient Abe is neither in the Imperial nor the Fujiwara group, what is their haplogroup? Do we know haplogroup any other Mutsu Gozoku descendants, and esp. Mutsu Abe? If anyone has info, please post. Masiamo, please tell us more about Abe YDNA.
 
Abe no Hirafu, a notable Japanese general of the Asuka period who conquered the Ezo in the north, is the most likely ancestor of the Abe clan. His father's name and origin are unknown and may have been altered to glorify the genealogy of the clan. Abe no Hirafu ruled Echigo where the Abe clan was powerful and he may be the descendant of Prince Ohiko, the first prince of Emperor Kougen who was dispatched to rule the region. Alternatively, the Abe clan could be the emigrated Fushu (Ezo) of Ainu descent as the Abe clan was the Chief of Fushu (chief of barbarians). If this is really the case, D-M55 or D-M125 (D1b1a), which is parental to D1b1a2 (D-IMS-JST022457), are probable candidates.

Studies in the later years have also presented with opinions that the origin of the Abe clan could be sought through ABE no Hirafu (the Fujisaki genealogy) who forced the Ezo (natives in the northern districts of Japan) in Akita into submission; or by changing the reading of the name from "abe" to "ape" from the standpoint of identifying the Ezo with the ancestors of the Ainu tribe, the Abe clan could be seen as completely indigenous. In turn, it is also said that any one of the Abe clan who was a central government official, came down to Oshu and left his offspring at the place of his post, or that the Ezo (Fushu [barbarians]) who had submitted themselves to the Imperial Court were the ancestors of the Abe clan.

While the opinion that the Abe clan was the Chief of Fushu (chief of barbarians, that is, the influential persons who had been selected from Fushu by the authority of the Yamato Imperial Court) is widely disseminating, there are no descriptions in documents stating the Abe clan to be the Chief of Fushu, with the exception of a description, "the late Chief of Fushu ABE no Yoritoki," in Dajokanpu (official documents issued by Dajokan, Grand Council of State) in 1064.

Emigrated Fushu
The Fushu who were sent to the Japanese territory were a group of Emishi men and women who had yielded to the power of Yamato (Japan) during the wars that occurred intermittently between Yamato and Emishi between the seventh century and ninth century and thus were forced to emigrate to the Japanese territory. The areas to which they emigrated spanned all of Japan, even as far as Kyushu. The Imperial Court made kokushi (provincial governors) take care of the Fushu exclusively other than their regular tasks, so those kokushi supervised, trained, protected and nurtured the Fushu. The Fushu who had been forced to emigrate to the Japanese territory were issued with food as a Fushu allowance by kokushi and given remission from payment of Yo (tax in kind) and Cho (another type of tax) until they could earn a living by themselves. However, those Fushu never started earning a living by themselves in their permanent places to stay and continued to receive the Fushu allowance.
 
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Japanese emperors belong to Y-DNA Haplogroup D? Interesting.

Judging by how Haplogroups O and D are distributed. And taking into account that up until the late Prehistory, D was the 'native Japanese' Hp.

We all may think that Hp D is some archaic population, and Hp O must be a modern migration that brought Asian civilization from the mainland.

But not, turns out the Japanese elite is Hp D.
 
D M174>CTS11577>M64>CTS10441>M125>CTS10972>PAGES00003>CTS1982>Z1504 descends from Minamoto no Makoto 810-868 & Emperor Jimmu 710-585BC
B432175Hiramatsu (Matsumoto)Namie Matsumoto 松本並衛 (1800s, lived in 1872)JapanD-BY77272
afcorse all this if he is truly a descendent and is not tricking :unsure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamoto_no_Makoto

minamoto was the son of emperor saga

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Saga



also this japanese site claim kanmu ( which was the father of emperor saga was in haplogroup D)

source:

https://famousdna.wiki.fc2.com/wiki/Y染色体D1a2a1b系統




p.s
D - BY77272 is a branch under d-z1504

https://www.yfull.com/tree/D-Z1504/


 
Maciamo;542331 The [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hata_clan" said:
Hata clan[/URL] is equally old and was founded by Chinese immigrants with the surname Qin (秦 ; Hata being the Japanese reading of that Chinese character) during the Kofun period (250–538). They became the ancestors of a number of samurai clans, such as the Akizuki, Chōsokabe, Kawakatsu and Tamura. Descendant testing at Family Tree DNA showed that that lineaged belonged to haplogroup O2a2b1a1 (formerly known as O3a2c1a), the most common lineage among Han Chinese, and specifically to the O-CTS10738 subclade found in both China and Japan.

I do not know Hata clan was connected to Qin dynasty. I just know that Hata clan originated in steppe.
Now I know why some scholars have a theory that Kofun mounds were built by Qin people, especially prince of Qin dynasty.
Lots of people and even scholars think that zhou dynasty was founded by tibet people because of one last name, 姜氏.
Likewise, I think the last name of Hata is very important to solve the origin of Qin founder.

However, kofun grave goods explains that the owners of kofun originated in the steppe, especially Xianbei culture. As I quoted in a thread regarding a recent japanese genetic paper, they planted an extreme brutal culture in Japan which is a unique steppe culture. The kofun elite swords is the same as Hun, avar and xianbei ones.

And O2a is always a confusing factor, but people just think that O2a has an origin in yangshao culture. However O2a people seems to be related to Hongshan 02a(M324) if they were buried with steppe artifacts and jade culture. I don’t know whether their brutality allow other people to survive. The Hongshan people and their descendants constantly migrated in korea and japan also.
The kofun elite swords is the same as Hun, avar and xianbei ones.

" East Asia, geographically extending to the Pamir Plateau in the west, to the Himalayan Mountains in the southwest, to Lake Baikal in the north and to the South China Sea in the south, harbors a variety of people, cultures, and languages. To reconstruct the natural history of East Asians is a mission of multiple disciplines, including genetics, archaeology, linguistics, and ethnology. Geneticists confirm the recent African origin of modern East Asians. Anatomically modern humans arose in Africa and immigrated into East Asia via a southern route approximately 50,000 years ago. Following the end of the Last Glacial Maximum approximately 12,000 years ago, rice and millet were domesticated in the south and north of East Asia, respectively, which allowed human populations to expand and linguistic families and ethnic groups to develop. These Neolithic populations produced a strong relation between the present genetic structures and linguistic families. The expansion of the Hongshan people from northeastern China relocated most of the ethnic populations on a large scale approximately 5300 years ago. Most of the ethnic groups migrated to remote regions, producing genetic structure differences between the edge and center of East Asia. In central China, pronounced population admixture occurred and accelerated over time, which subsequently formed the Han Chinese population and eventually the Chinese civilization. Population migration between the north and the south throughout history has left a smooth gradient in north–south changes in genetic structure. Observation of the process of shaping the genetic structure of East Asians may help in understanding the global natural history of modern humans"
 
^ Xianbei and china

[FONT=&quot]
The Xianbei were perhaps the most prominent of the various non-Chinese peoples active in north China during the Age of Division. They established a number of imperial dynasties there, some of which were admittedly no more than ephemeral footnotes to history, but others of which—notably including the Northern Wei—are commonly viewed as having been major dynasties, squarely in the legitimate line of Chinese dynastic succession. In addition, the Xianbei were also central to the origins of the gloriously reunified Sui and Tang dynasties, even though the Xianbei role in their formation has not always been sufficiently appreciated. Despite their very real importance in Chinese history, the Xianbei remain today relatively little known, especially in English language scholarship. This article therefore aims to provide the most comprehensive study of the Xianbei available yet in English, to assess the overall role of the Xianbei in Chinese history, and also to examine the Xianbei as a critical case study in the more general, and controversial, process known as sinicization.
[/FONT]
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/1529910413Z.0000000006?journalCode=yemc20

[FONT=&quot]
Sanping Chen investigates several foundational aspects of Chinese culture during this period, including the legendary unicorn and the fabled heroine Mulan, to determine the origin and development of the lore. His meticulous research yields surprising results. For instance, he finds that the character Mulan is not of Chinese origin and that Central Asian influences are to be found in language, religion, governance, and other fundamental characteristics of Chinese culture. As Victor Mair writes in the Foreword, "While not everyone will acquiesce in the entirety of Dr. Chen's findings, no reputable scholar can afford to ignore them with impunity."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These "foreign"-origin elements were largely the legacy of the Tuoba, whose descendants in fact dominated China's political and cultural stage for nearly a millennium. Long before the Mongols, the Tuoba set a precedent for "using the civilized to rule the civilized" by attracting a large number of sedentary Central Asians to East Asia. This not only added a strong pre-Islamic Iranian layer to the contemporary Sinitic culture but also commenced China's golden age under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty, whose nominally "Chinese" ruling house is revealed by Chen to be the biological and cultural heir of the Tuoba.

https://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14969.html
*Tuoba is xianbei clan[/FONT]
 

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