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Thread: The curious case of Albanian coincidences

  1. #51
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    Ok, i'm going to throw the ball far here, but here goes:


    Priam, King of Troy is a Dardanian and of the House of Dardanus according to Homer.


    Illyrius had six sons and three daughters whose names were associated with specific tribes:


    Sons


    Encheleus (Εγχελέα) of the Enchelaeae
    Autarieus (Αυταριέα) of the Autariates
    Dardanus (Δάρδανον) of the Dardani
    Maedus (Μαίδον)
    Taulas (Ταυλαντά) of the Taulantii
    Perrhaebus (Περραιβόν) of the Perrhaebi


    Daughters


    Partho (Πάρθω) of the Partheni
    Daortho (Δαορθώ) of the Daors
    Dassaro (Δασσαρώ) of the Dassaretae






    Neighbouring nationalists try push that its just a coincidence that that Dardani that neighboured Illyrians have the same name, and that they aren't related to the Dardanians of Troy, but it doesn't float.


    There is the coincidence that Greek doesn't have an etymology for the word "Troy" and seek Hittite explanations. In Albanian "Troje/Trojet" (Pronounced "Troye/Troyet") literally means "Lands" or "Country"


    Or what about "Ilion" the actual name of Troy? Greeks also have no etymology for this and refer to Hittite "Wilusa" as the closest bet.


    In Albanian "Ilion" could be "Ylli-jone" (pronounced ew-leon) and means "our star". Illyria could then also be "ylli ri" (young star/new star).


    Two kings of Dardania were named "Bardylis" which could easily be "Bardh (white) yll(star)".


    Its not controversial that the Sun, Moon and stars were extremely important part of life and mythology and culture and navigation etc.


    Enjoy this song from Arbereshe dedicated to a Beautiful Star:


    Last edited by Johane Derite; 19-05-18 at 21:41.
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post


    There is the coincidence that Greek doesn't have an etymology for the word "Troy" and seek Hittite explanations. In Albanian "Troje/Trojet" (Pronounced "Troye/Troyet") literally means "Lands."

    Here is an example of the word "Trojet" being used in a song. It is a very common word, as common as "Land" in english.

    The song is called "Guri rënd rri ne trojet e veta" which translates in English into something along the lines of:

    "A heavy stone stays in its lands"

    The instrument is two stringed and called a "Cifteli" and is specialized for these types of rhapsodies where the focus is more on the content of the epic verse (the type that Harvard Scholars Milman Parry and Albert Bates Lord
    studied and based their Oral Theory of Homeric Verse on). These types of rhapsodies are slightly more common in highlands and Gheg areas. (This particular one is from Mirdita).

    This instrument has also been in South Europe since ancient times.


    The Cifteli is depicted in the funerary stele of Philocrates dated ~340 BC:




    Title


    Funerary stele of Philocrates.

    Date of Publication


    1819

    Bibliographic Citation


    DODWELL, Edward. A classical and topographical Tour through Greece, during the Years 1801, 1805, and 1806, vol. Ι, London, Rodwell and Martin, 1819.

    Area/Place


    Greece
    Attica
    Athens




    Last edited by Johane Derite; 19-05-18 at 22:09.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Ok, i'm going to throw the ball far here, but here goes:
    Priam, King of Troy is a Dardanian and of the House of Dardanus according to Homer.
    Illyrius had six sons and three daughters whose names were associated with specific tribes:
    Sons
    Encheleus (Εγχελέα) of the Enchelaeae
    Autarieus (Αυταριέα) of the Autariates
    Dardanus (Δάρδανον) of the Dardani
    Maedus (Μαίδον)
    Taulas (Ταυλαντά) of the Taulantii
    Perrhaebus (Περραιβόν) of the Perrhaebi
    Daughters
    Partho (Πάρθω) of the Partheni
    Daortho (Δαορθώ) of the Daors
    Dassaro (Δασσαρώ) of the Dassaretae
    Neighbouring nationalists try push that its just a coincidence that that Dardani that neighboured Illyrians have the same name, and that they aren't related to the Dardanians of Troy, but it doesn't float.
    There is the coincidence that Greek doesn't have an etymology for the word "Troy" and seek Hittite explanations. In Albanian "Troje/Trojet" (Pronounced "Troye/Troyet") literally means "Lands" or "Country"
    Or what about "Ilion" the actual name of Troy? Greeks also have no etymology for this and refer to Hittite "Wilusa" as the closest bet.
    In Albanian "Ilion" could be "Ylli-jone" (pronounced ew-leon) and means "our star". Illyria could then also be "ylli ri" (young star/new star).
    Two kings of Dardania were named "Bardylis" which could easily be "Bardh (white) yll(star)".
    Its not controversial that the Sun, Moon and stars were extremely important part of life and mythology and culture and navigation etc.
    Enjoy this song from Arbereshe dedicated to a Beautiful Star:
    so is Maedus associated with Mysians ??
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysians
    who originated from Moesians ( modern south serbia )
    .
    Mysian language was akin to the barely attested Paeonian language of Paeonia, north of Macedon. Paeonian language is associated with Dardanii language.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    so is Maedus associated with Mysians ??
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysians
    who originated from Moesians ( modern south serbia )
    .
    Mysian language was akin to the barely attested Paeonian language of Paeonia, north of Macedon. Paeonian language is associated with Dardanii language.
    No clue, I have to do some more reflecting and more research before I can say anything.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    First thing to note is the coin doesn't name the city as Lychnid-os but Lychni-dion
    The thread goes off the rails with various claims of connections after the first post so it's uninteresting to follow much but, as Yetos correctly pointed out in this case, this doesn't name the city but the community, i.e. "of the Lychnidians". The town itself was considered of Illyrian association (and it's situated basically close to the boundary where Illyrians met Upper Macedonians) but the coinage is Hellenistic and of obvious Macedonian influence.

    Related info:

    https://helios-eie.ekt.gr/EIE/bitstr...2012-libre.pdf

  6. #56
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    I THINK THIS THREAD IS A COMMEDY




    TAMPOYRAS ΤΑΜΠΟΥΡΑ FROM ANCIENT ΠΑΝΔΟΥΡΑ PANDOURA

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambouras

    Notice Persian Tambur

    A BULGARIAN STYLE TAMPOURA



    THAT IS ANCIENT STELE FROM IBERIA





    so because some ALBANIANS LIKE PLAY MUSIC OF LOUTE ORGARNS (Oud ude out)

    I SEE NO COINCIDENCE,
    CAUSE THE SAME COINCIDENCE CAN HAVE PERSIA, EGYPT WITH MUSIC, ETC

    WHAT CAN WE EXTRACT THEN?
    EGYPTIANS ARE ALBANIANS OR GREEKS ARE PERSIANS?
    MAYBE SPANISH ARE BULGARIANS?

    COME ON,
    LETS NOT DROP TO SO RIDICULOUS LEVEL,


    @ DERITE,

    SORRY, I will use your Photo

    what a coinsidence, WOW









    In Italy they 'cut' the Neck and made Mandolin





    and in Grece create a second tamboura a MINI one

    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  7. #57
    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    TAMPOYRAS ΤΑΜΠΟΥΡΑ FROM ANCIENT ΠΑΝΔΟΥΡΑ PANDOURA

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambouras


    What don't you understand about cultural transmission?

    You non-stop do these false equivalences where you go and find something that looks similar from all the way in china or arabia or something as if that dismantles the main point.

    Albanians and Greeks are neighbours of the first degree, and have been for a very long time.

    Your psycho Golden Dawn politicians have brainwashed you into believing we come from Mars and so you get triggered by everything.

    I'm not the one that made the Oral theory of homeric transmission. It was Harvard scholars. I didn't go and study Albanians in the highlands, it was harvard scholars.

    Here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albani...oldformat=true

    I hope you notice in this article how much slavs try to say and usurp this as being something that is theirs when its clear who they learnt it from and who still does it!

  8. #58
    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LATGAL View Post
    The town itself was considered of Illyrian association (and it's situated basically close to the boundary where Illyrians met Upper Macedonians) but the coinage is Hellenistic and of obvious Macedonian influence.

    Related info:

    https://helios-eie.ekt.gr/EIE/bitstr...2012-libre.pdf
    Are the Illyrians belts found in bosnia and croatia territories macedonian influenced?

    Liqeni = Lake in Albanian, is this a coincidence in your opinon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    its clear who they learnt it from
    How is that clear? Do you have any evidence of transmission from Albanian into Slavic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    What don't you understand about cultural transmission?

    You non-stop do these false equivalences where you go and find something that looks similar from all the way in china or arabia or something as if that dismantles the main point.

    Albanians and Greeks are neighbours of the first degree, and have been for a very long time.

    Your psycho Golden Dawn politicians have brainwashed you into believing we come from Mars and so you get triggered by everything.

    I'm not the one that made the Oral theory of homeric transmission. It was Harvard scholars. I didn't go and study Albanians in the highlands, it was harvard scholars.

    Here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albani...oldformat=true

    I hope you notice in this article how much slavs try to say and usurp this as being something that is theirs when its clear who they learnt it from and who still does it!
    @ Derite

    I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,

    My personal view was and is clear,
    Plz lets not get into results, by using such tools,

    my views are

    1 Balkanic pop and languages are not poor, neither the same % as were 2500 years before.
    yet a % comes from older populations,

    2 Neither Slavic, Neither Albanian, Neither modern Greek, Neither Romanian/Aromanian were Spoken before 2500 years,

    3 about Albanian, I do not believe that is Illyrian,
    I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family
    but ancestors of Albanian language were in Balkans 2500 years before.
    same with population, I do not think majority is foreign, but that does mean no mix had happened,
    especially in North where Slavic mtDNA has %,
    the same I say about my country, if you Notice,

    I am clear I think,


    about Golden down,

    Let me remind you, that αν expelled sub-leader, a 'buranda' of the party, was Albanian
    and a % are Albanians, most are are after 1990's newcomers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family...
    Everyone knows Aromanian is Balkan Latin while no linguist or historian has ever considered Illyrian a Romance or Celtic language.

    When you said the North of Albania has some Slavic mtDNA, which haplogroups were you considering Slavic?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Derite

    I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,


    When studying cultural or linguistic phenomena, if similarities appear between two cultures that are very close to each other geographically and have interaction, then it is more likely divergent evolution of the same ancestor phenomena has occurred. The closer and more interacting, the less likely it is that two exact phenomena will have evolved independently and end up looking the same (i.e. a same instrument) although still of course a possiblity.

    The further away and less interacting (South Asia) then it becomes more likely that its not of the same ancestor, but still possible.

  13. #63
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    1. [ca. 216 BCE] 8 Philip, then, advancing with his army recovered the cities I mentioned, took Creonium and Gerus in the Dassaretis, Enchelanae, Cerax,Sation, and Boei in the region of Lake Lychnis, Bantia in the district of the Caloecini and Orgyssus in that of the Pisantini (Polybius, Histories, 5.108.1 - ca. 130 BCE )
    2. [ca. 196 BCE] 12 To Pleuratus they gave Lychnis and Parthus, which were Illyrian but subject to Philip, 13 and they allowed Amynander all the forts he had wrested from Philip in war (Polybius, Histories, 18.47.1 - ca. 130 BCE )
    3. [ca. 100 BCE] This country has a large lake they call Lychnites. The next island, some say, is where Diomedes ended his life, whence its name Diomedeia (Pseudo Scymnus or Pausanias of Damascus, Circuit of the Earth, 425 - ca. 100 BCE )
    4. [ca. 358 BCE] 1 About the same time Philip, king of the Macedonians, who had been victorious over the Illyrians in a great battle and had made subject all the people who dwelt there as far as the lake called Lychnitis, now returned to Macedonia, having arranged a noteworthy peace with the Illyrians and won great acclaim among the Macedonians for the success due to his valour (Diodorus Siculus, Library 8-40, 16.8.1 - ca. 49 BCE )
    5. [ca. 208 BCE] Whilst he was distributing the spoil and the captives-there were 4000 prisoners and 20,000 head of cattle large and small-a messenger arrived from Macedonia stating that a certain Eropus had taken Lychnidos after bribing the commandant of the garrison, that he was in possession of some villages belonging to the Dassaretii and was also making the Dardanians restless (Livy, History of Rome, 27.32 - ca. 19 BCE )
    6. [ca. 170 BCE] After marching through the whole of that district he fixed his headquarters at Lychnidus, a town in Dassaretia (Livy, History of Rome, 43.9- ca. 14 BCE )
    7. [ca. 169 BCE] He was, however, repulsed, and a large number of his men were wounded, and he led his force back to Lychnidus (Livy, History of Rome, 43.21 - ca. 14 BCE )
    8. [ca. 168 BCE] If Appius Claudius had had a strong enough army at Lychnidus, the king might have had his attention distracted between two fronts; at the present moment, Appius and such force as he had with him were in the utmost danger, unless either a regular army was sent there without delay, or they were withdrawn from their present position (Livy, History of Rome, 44.20 - ca. 14 BCE )
    9. [ca. 1 BCE] Now although the road as a whole is called the Egnatian Road, the first part of it is called the Road to Candavia (an Illyrian mountain) and passes through Lychnidus, a city, and Pylon, a place on the road which marks the boundary between the Illyrian country and Macedonia (Strabo, Geography, 7.7.4 - ca. 24 CE )
    10. [ca. 1 BCE] Near the Road to Candavia are not only the lakes which are in the neighborhood of Lychnidus, on the shores of which are salt-fish establishments that are independent of other waters, but also a number of rivers, some emptying into the Ionian Sea and others flowing in a southerly direction (Strabo, Geography, 7.7.8 - ca. 24 CE )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    It's so strange how so many coincidences (and nothing more according to our neighbours on our north, east, and south borders) happen when it comes to the Albanian language and archaeology.

    This is a bronze coin found in what is today "Ohrid" but according to archeological consensus used to be the Ancient Greek city of "Lychnidos."

    First thing to note is the coin doesn't name the city as Lychnid-os but Lychni-dion

    I was interested to see the etymology of "Lychnidos" and was surprised to see this explanation from the wikipedia link:
    "In antiquity the city was known under the ancient Greek: Λυχνίς (Lychnis) and Latin: Lychnidus,[6] probably meaning "city of light", from Greek λυχνίς (lychnis, gen. lychnidos), "a precious stone that emits light",[7] from λύχνος (lychnos), "lamp, portable light".[8] By 879 AD, the town was no longer called Lychnidos but was referred to by the assimilated native people as Ohrid, possibly from the Slavic words vo hrid, meaning "on the hill", as the ancient town of Lychnidos was at the top of the hill.[9][10] In Macedonian and the other South Slavic languages, the name of the city is Ohrid (Охрид). In Albanian, the city is known as Ohër or Ohri and in modern Greek Ochrida (Οχρίδα, Ωχρίδα) and Achrida (Αχρίδα)."
    LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrid?oldformat=true

    Well, the reason I was surprised is because the word "Liqen" (q in albanian is pronounced like "ch" in "cheese") means Lake.
    Liqen-i means "The Lake." It should be obvious it comes from the same PIE root as English Lake also.

    This is Lake Ohrid from space:
    So I guess my question is this:
    Archeological, ethnographic, linguistic, and now Y-Dna and Autosomal DNA all corroborates that Albanians have been neighbours with Greeks for a very long time.
    So why, in contrast to the Greek language, which is the #1 most studied Language on earth is Albanian among the least?
    Even if Albanians had never contributed even ONE historically relevant person in all their existence, the language should be of interest by mere virtue of being right next
    to the most studied one. And there are plenty of more recent historical figures in from the small Albanian population reaching from artists (Gjon Mili), a pope (Giovanni Francesco Albani), to statesmen (Francesco Crispi) and so on
    to prove to even the most racist haters that at least in more recent history there have undoubtedly been important Albanian individuals.

    In Ancient and Classical studies it is not even the slightest bit controversial to work on etymoligies and theories of origins of cultural phenomena by surmising foreign influence. It is very common that
    for something unexplained a scholar may refer to Sumerian, Phonecian, or other very far away Semitic cultures based on trade routes and such.
    Modern Greek isn't studied very much. Ancient Greek is and basically two dialects of it mostly, Homeric Greek and Attic Greek and the reasons are obvious.
    And that has its negatives because those who do study Modern Greek almost always compare it with those ancient dialects, which is something that doesn't happen with other languages that much, even those that descent from Latin.

    Either way, ΛΥΧNΔΙΩΝ means 'of Lychidnians'. That is a fact and has parallels all over Greece. The coins don't have name of cities on them but names of populations in genitive (or names of rulers in genitive, that is true about Macedonia for example)

    (Sorry I edited my post because I made a mistake)

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    Modern Greek isn't studied very much. Ancient Greek is and basically two dialects of it mostly, Homeric Greek and Attic Greek and the reasons are obvious.
    And that has its negatives because those who do study Modern Greek almost always compare it with those ancient dialects, which is something that doesn't happen with other languages that much, even those that descent from Latin.

    Either way, ΛΥΧΙΔΝΙΩΝ means 'of Lychidnians'. That is a fact and has parallels all over Greece. The coins don't have name of cities on them but names of populations in genitive (or names of rulers in genitive, that is true about Macedonia at least).

    If you want to support that the word ΛΥΧΙΔΝΙΟΙ would have meant something like 'lake people', I don't have the problem with that, really. I'm open.
    We can consider it a compound word. The first part *lykh (?) = lake, the second *dn (?) = people (?) (compare Makedones, which according to some could have meant 'tall people' or more likely 'people from the highlands', 'highlanders' which are etymologies that have been proposed but aren't widely accepted).
    I would also obviously prefer to study ancient proto albanian dialects but no texts I know of exist that far back. Maybe they are in some grave somehwere not yet discovered, but for now all we have to work with is contemporary albanian and middle ages texts.

    Concerning the -dion suffix what you and latgal said, that makes a lot of sense and I concede it happily. I admit that
    this can happen on my part because of my ignorance of ancient greek dialects and I was thinking of the coin being attributed to the city.

    I emphasise that Liqen - Lychni part is what i was more captured by than the lacking contemporary greek -os suffix which was a misjudgement from my side.

    The Lake people/Highlander people makes sense to me also.

    In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Derite

    I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,
    If you don`t understand, then why do you make such conclusions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    I THINK THIS THREAD IS A COMMEDY
    LETS NOT DROP TO SO RIDICULOUS LEVEL
    If you don`t understand, first thing to do is reading the title of the thread:
    The curious case of Albanian coincidences
    If you again don`t understand then ask for an explanation from the OP.

    My personal view was and is clear,
    Plz lets not get into results, by using such tools,
    Excuse me, but was you who said i don`t understand.

    my views are
    Yeah, tell us.
    1 Balkanic pop and languages are not poor, neither the same % as were 2500 years before.
    yet a % comes from older populations,
    But this is not a conclusion, this is common knowledge, even kids know this.
    2 Neither Slavic, Neither Albanian, Neither modern Greek, Neither Romanian/Aromanian were Spoken before 2500 years,
    1)Slavs were not in Balcans 2500 years ago.
    2) How do you know about Albanian language? We have not invented a new language like for example you with Katharevousa.
    3)Of course not, modern Greek was not spoken in Balcans 2.500 years ago.
    4) Of course, neither Romanian/Aromanian were spoken 2.500 years ago.
    Again you are telling things that even kids know.
    3 about Albanian, I do not believe that is Illyrian,
    No problem, i understand your complex.
    I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family
    Can you quote a scholar?
    but ancestors of Albanian language were in Balkans 2500 years before.
    same with population, I do not think majority is foreign, but that does mean no mix had happened,
    Great!!!! So, no more Maniakis theory? This is what i consider a Great Leap Forward.
    especially in North where Slavic mtDNA has %,
    the same I say about my country, if you Notice,
    you don't have a clue about genetics.
    I am clear I think,


    about Golden down,

    Let me remind you, that αν expelled sub-leader, a 'buranda' of the party, was Albanian
    and a % are Albanians, most are are after 1990's newcomers
    Yetos, i understand your complex of inferiority, but i can`t help you. Johane is talking about ancient instruments and homeric legends(this is how many scholars call these legends, homeric) that are preserved among Albanians.
    I invite you to stop t-rolling. Take the oudi of your grandfather and start to sing one of those aman-aman like this:

    Σαν βγαίνει ο Χότζας στο τζαμί Μπιρ Αλλάχ Πάνος Κατσιμίχας
    As Hoxha comes to the mosque Bir Allah
    Panos Katsimihas


    Σαν βγαίνει ο Χότζας στο τζαμί,
    αργά σαν σουρουπώνει,
    κι όταν ακούω Μπιρ Αλλάχ,
    το στήθος μου ματώνει...


    As Hoxha comes to the mosque,
    slowly as getting dark,
    and when I hear Bir Allah,
    my chest blew...

    Η Τουρκορωμιοσύνη
    ποτέ δεν πεθαίνει!

    The Tourkoromiosyni
    never dies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I would also obviously prefer to study ancient proto albanian dialects but no texts I know of exist that far back. Maybe they are in some grave somehwere not yet discovered, but for now all we have to work with is contemporary albanian and middle ages texts.

    Concerning the -dion suffix what you and latgal said, that makes a lot of sense and I concede it happily. I admit that
    this can happen on my part because of my ignorance of ancient greek dialects and I was thinking of the coin being attributed to the city.

    I emphasise that Liqen - Lychni part is what i was more captured by than the lacking contemporary greek -os suffix which was a misjudgement from my side.

    The Lake people/Highlander people makes sense to me also.

    In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"
    I made a mistake. I thought there was an 'N' after 'D' too, so a part of what I said isn't correct.
    The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)

    Ok, if we assume that the toponym has something to do with the meaning lake. And if we assume that the letters had the same values reconstructed ancient Greek has we see a root:
    *lukhn / *lykhn (?)

    Sorry for the mistake. I will see if I have anything to add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post

    In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"
    An interesting coincidence, while I'm at it:

    E Madhe means "big/grand/great"

    For example:





    Sounds pretty similar to "Emathia" (E Madhja is also used in Albanian)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathia

    Etymology[edit]

    According to Solinus and Justin, Emathia was named after the Samothracian king Emathion and not after the local Emathus. The etymology of the name has been related to Homeric Greek amathos[2] and êmathoessa[3] (< PIE *samadh) 'sandy land', i. e. the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia, probably also intended as 'meadow land' (cf. PIE *mē-2, *m-e-t- 'to mow, to reap').[4]

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    I made a mistake. I thought there was an 'N' after 'D' too, so a part of what I said isn't correct.
    The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)

    Ok, if we assume that the toponym has something to do with the meaning lake. And if we assume that the letters had the same values reconstructed ancient Greek has we see a root:
    *lukhn / *lykhn (?)

    Sorry for the mistake. I will see if I have anything to add.
    No worries, i appreciate the help *i dont have any more up votes to give sorry*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    An interesting coincidence, while I'm at it:

    E Madhe means "big/grand/great"

    For example:





    Sounds pretty similar to "Emathia" (E Madhja is also used in Albanian)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathia

    Etymology[edit]

    According to Solinus and Justin, Emathia was named after the Samothracian king Emathion and not after the local Emathus. The etymology of the name has been related to Homeric Greek amathos[2] and êmathoessa[3] (< PIE *samadh) 'sandy land', i. e. the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia, probably also intended as 'meadow land' (cf. PIE *mē-2, *m-e-t- 'to mow, to reap').[4]
    But before the standartization of the Albanian language, in different dialects used to say math not madh and i math or e mathe not i madh or e madhe, my grandfather/mother for example.

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    Regular Member Johane Derite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    But before the standartization of the Albanian language, in different dialects used to say math not madh and i math or e mathe not i madh or e madhe, my grandfather/mother for example.
    Yes there was dialectal variation ranging from albanian soft "th" (like "th" in "tooth) to the now standardised form of hard
    "dh" (pronounced like "th" in "th​e")

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    An interesting coincidence, while I'm at it:

    E Madhe means "big/grand/great"

    [...]

    Sounds pretty similar to "Emathia" (E Madhja is also used in Albanian)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathia

    Etymology[edit]

    According to Solinus and Justin, Emathia was named after the Samothracian king Emathion and not after the local Emathus. The etymology of the name has been related to Homeric Greek amathos[2] and êmathoessa[3] (< PIE *samadh) 'sandy land', i. e. the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia, probably also intended as 'meadow land' (cf. PIE *mē-2, *m-e-t- 'to mow, to reap').[4]
    There is a problem with that, I think. Why 'e' was included in the toponym? Why not Mathia, Madhia? (Can you explain how, e / i etc are used today?)

    On the other hand, there are problems with the 'sandy land' etymology too, because what would have been the meaning of the personal name Emathion? (Something like 'great' seems better)

    By the way in Cyprus there were people who called themselves 'Amathusioi', at least in Greek.
    And Amathusia was an epithet of Aphrodite. ('Great' seems theoretically possible at least, something like 'the goddess of the sandy land' theoretically possible too or maybe just 'from Amathus', 'Amathusian')

    The people from Amathus, Cyprus didn't want to revolt against Achaemenids Persians btw. The traditional explanation is that it was because they had ties with the Phoenicians who were allied with the Persians, but I would consider the possibility they had ties with the Persians themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Derite

    I still do not understand what is your target, yourpoint,

    My personal view was and is clear,
    Plz lets not get into results, by using such tools,

    my views are

    1 Balkanic pop and languages are not poor, neither the same % as were 2500 years before.
    yet a % comes from older populations,

    2 Neither Slavic, Neither Albanian, Neither modern Greek, Neither Romanian/Aromanian were Spoken before 2500 years,

    3 about Albanian, I do not believe that is Illyrian,
    I think that Aromanian is closer to Illyrian, Celtic family
    but ancestors of Albanian language were in Balkans 2500 years before.
    same with population, I do not think majority is foreign, but that does mean no mix had happened,
    especially in North where Slavic mtDNA has %,
    the same I say about my country, if you Notice,

    I am clear I think,


    about Golden down,

    Let me remind you, that αν expelled sub-leader, a 'buranda' of the party, was Albanian
    and a % are Albanians, most are are after 1990's newcomers
    What are you on about? Aromanian is a Latin language so how would it have more to do with Illyrian lol? Albanian has far more words that are similar to what we know of Illyrian than Aromanian. Albanian is the closest thing that you could get to Illyrian today and going by the genetic evidence the Illyrian theory seems to hold the most water going by ancient DNA samples. Can you show evidence of how the north has a god percentage of Slavic mtDNA?
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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    Concerning, the reconstructed PIE root *samadh- 'sandy land'

    In Greek dialects it would have been *hamath- / *amath- (which would evolve to *amaθ- in modern Greek)
    In Northern IE dialects it would have been *samad

    (In PIE proper it would have been *samat really, if Kortlandt and others from Leiden school are correct)

    I tried to find out if a toponym like Samadia exists anywhere and I found one, it was a former name of Zandabad
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zandabad

    but it can be a coincidence because a similar toponym exists even in Tibet.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    There is a problem with that, I think. Why 'e' was included in the toponym? Why not Mathia, Madhia? (Can you explain how, e / i etc are used today?)

    On the other hand, there are problems with the 'sandy land' etymology too, because what would have been the meaning of the personal name Emathion? (Something like 'great' seems better)

    By the way in Cyprus there were people who called themselves 'Amathusioi', at least in Greek.
    And Amathusia was an epithet of Aphrodite. ('Great' seems theoretically possible at least, something like 'the goddess of the sandy land' theoretically possible too or maybe just 'from Amathus', 'Amathusian')

    The people from Amathus, Cyprus didn't want to revolt against Achaemenids Persians btw. The traditional explanation is that it was because they had ties with the Phoenicians who were allied with the Persians, but I would consider the possibility they had ties with the Persians themselves.
    Sorry for the delay, im currently at work:

    The adjectives in Albanian are usually accompanied by the connective article, which is determined by the gender and the number of the noun. The connective articles are: i, e, të. The connective article i is used before the adjective with a singular masculine noun in indefinite or definite form, for example:
    një shok i mirë - shoku i mirë (a good friend - the good friend )

    i is masculine (i madh)
    e is feminine (e madhe)

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