The curious case of Albanian coincidences

A. Papadimitriou said:
I believe all linguists would say there isn't a possibility.
The genitive plural ending is ōn in Greek, ān most often in NW Greek, but for PIE it is reconstructed as *-ōm, *-oHom etc (there are different views concerning the details at least, see the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_nominals

[Personally I have my own opinions about some reconstructions but since I've chosen to not do post-graduate studies in linguistics I'll leave them aside]

Now, if pre-proto-Indoeuropean was more analytic, there are many possibilities (case endings could have descended from independent words)
but in this case in particular the Albanian word should descend from the PIE personal pronoun in some way. I will check it.
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Thanks, A.
 
Ownstyler said:
Johane if you have evidence of transmission of the Epos from Albanian into Slavic, could you point me to it? I am very interested in learning more about that. Thank you!
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I will respond to you about this when i have a bit more time, brb
 
The NW Greek ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ would correspond to Albanian i/e/të/së epiroteve.
ΚΟΙΝΟΝ ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ= komuniteti i epirotëve*
(M.Gr) to ki'no ton ipiro'ton or i ki'notita ton ipiro'ton
(to kino would have been used only in that context and is a neuter noun, i kinotita which means primarily 'community' is a female noun and more widely used)

*If I have understood correctly how Albanian works. I'm not sure if the word komuniteti is the most accurate
 
In Aleksandar Stipcevic's book "The Illyrians", he mentions that these shields with the circles were Illyrian if they had a specific number of circles. I don't remember which number he said. I think it was 5 or 6 circles on the sides beside the center-piece/circle.

When i get back to my other apartment later i can look it up again and then ill tell you.
If anyone else can remember the number that would be great too, then i don't have to glimpse through whole chapters again to find it :)
 
A. Papadimitriou said:
The NW Greek ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ would correspond to Albanian i/e/të/së epiroteve.
ΚΟΙΝΟΝ ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ= komuniteti i epirotëve*
(M.Gr) to ki'no ton ipiro'ton or i ki'notita ton ipiro'ton
(to kino would have been used only in that context and is a neuter noun, i kinotita which means primarily 'community' is a female noun and more widely used)

*If I have understood correctly how Albanian works. I'm not sure if the word komuniteti is the most accurate
Click to expand...

Komunitet is used in Albanian and it's an adoption in Albanian of the English word community or the Italian word comunita. It's used as a synonym of the Albanian word bashkësi.
 
Johane Derite said:
No clue, I have to do some more reflecting and more research before I can say anything.
Click to expand...

If you see the Dardanians of Anatolia match the Dardanians of kososvo then history changes ........
 
Ernekar said:
In Aleksandar Stipcevic's book "The Illyrians", he mentions that these shields with the circles were Illyrian if they had a specific number of circles. I don't remember which number he said. I think it was 5 or 6 circles on the sides beside the center-piece/circle.
When i get back to my other apartment later i can look it up again and then ill tell you.
If anyone else can remember the number that would be great too, then i don't have to glimpse through whole chapters again to find it :)
Click to expand...
http://www.talimo.com/macedonian-antique-shield/
6 circles

................................
..
7 circles on a shield was the mark of Macedonians under Ptolemy after the death of Alexander
 
A. Papadimitriou said:
The NW Greek ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ would correspond to Albanian i/e/të/së epiroteve.
ΚΟΙΝΟΝ ΑΠΕΙΡΩΤΑΝ= komuniteti i epirotëve*
(M.Gr) to ki'no ton ipiro'ton or i ki'notita ton ipiro'ton
(to kino would have been used only in that context and is a neuter noun, i kinotita which means primarily 'community' is a female noun and more widely used)

*If I have understood correctly how Albanian works. I'm not sure if the word komuniteti is the most accurate
Click to expand...

Sorry, i've had busy day. Yes you used it correctly but the word komuniteti as Laberia rightly said is a relatively more recent borrowing.

The orders of relations in Albanian words are more like this:

farefisi - close family (farë means "seed" and Fis means clan, so literal translation means "seed of clan")

fisi - tribe/clan

bashkësi - community.

Bashkë means "together", and the suffix "-si" is like the suffix "-ness" so "togetherness" would be a literal translation.
 
Johane Derite said:
I would also obviously prefer to study ancient proto albanian dialects but no texts I know of exist that far back. Maybe they are in some grave somehwere not yet discovered, but for now all we have to work with is contemporary albanian and middle ages texts.

Concerning the -dion suffix what you and latgal said, that makes a lot of sense and I concede it happily. I admit that
this can happen on my part because of my ignorance of ancient greek dialects and I was thinking of the coin being attributed to the city.

I emphasise that Liqen - Lychni part is what i was more captured by than the lacking contemporary greek -os suffix which was a misjudgement from my side.

The Lake people/Highlander people makes sense to me also.

In albanian the word for "big/grand" is "Madhe" (dh is pronounced like "th" in "The"). This is cognate with "Magna"
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I am expecting not to play again the game IE linguistics like with Zeus10,
the words Lugo Lugano Lake etc
and the words Λυχνος Lux etc

you find the rules and prove backwards and infront the IE root and the Albanian correct form.

It is more complicated.
 
Johane Derite said:
What don't you understand about cultural transmission?

You non-stop do these false equivalences where you go and find something that looks similar from all the way in china or arabia or something as if that dismantles the main point.

Albanians and Greeks are neighbours of the first degree, and have been for a very long time.

Your psycho Golden Dawn politicians have brainwashed you into believing we come from Mars and so you get triggered by everything.

I'm not the one that made the Oral theory of homeric transmission. It was Harvard scholars. I didn't go and study Albanians in the highlands, it was harvard scholars.

Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_epic_verse?oldformat=true

I hope you notice in this article how much slavs try to say and usurp this as being something that is theirs when its clear who they learnt it from and who still does it!
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I think panic is not a good Advisor,
same as Homeric is a descent of IE,
same can be as Albanian, as Latin, as Avestan, as Parhian, etc,
When you understand that,
in Fact is 2900 closer to IE than modern languages,
so a linguist if search he can find same simmilarities with All IE languages of that Era,
1500 years is not same with 4500 years,

WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND,
IS THAT BECAUSE PHILOKTETES HOLD A TANBUR,
DOES NOT MEAN TANBUR IS GREEK OR ALBANIAN,
NEITHER AN UZBEK DABUR PLAYER IS ALBANIAN,

I WROTE IT CLEAR, in POST #60

As for the transmission of culture
It always happened,
It happens today,
but that is not coincidence,
neither a prove for nationalistic stupid Demands,


AGAIN I REAPEAT,

A SUB-LEADER OF GOLDEN DAWN, A VERY HIGH MEMBER WAS ALBANIAN (Not Arbanite)
SO CUT THE STUPIDITY,

BY 'strange' COINCIDENCES, SCIENCE DOES NOT IMPROVE.
CAUSE IF ALBANIANS AND GREEKS USED TAMBURA
AND CONSIDER IT AS BASIS
THEN WITH SAME CRITERIA MUST SAY THE SAME
ABOUT ALBANIA OR GREECE WITH UZBEK OR CHINA

PS
I was clear in post #60
I never said that Albanians especially Arbers where not local balkan population,
on contradiction I believe their core was in Balkans milleniums now.
what problematizes me is the Shqip Language which I consider Balkanic but not Illyrian due to Illyrian = Celtic family.
 
LABERIA said:
If you don`t understand, then why do you make such conclusions?
If you don`t understand, first thing to do is reading the title of the thread:
The curious case of Albanian coincidences
If you again don`t understand then ask for an explanation from the OP.


Excuse me, but was you who said i don`t understand.


Yeah, tell us.

But this is not a conclusion, this is common knowledge, even kids know this.

1)Slavs were not in Balcans 2500 years ago.
2) How do you know about Albanian language? We have not invented a new language like for example you with Katharevousa.
3)Of course not, modern Greek was not spoken in Balcans 2.500 years ago.
4) Of course, neither Romanian/Aromanian were spoken 2.500 years ago.
Again you are telling things that even kids know.

No problem, i understand your complex. :grin:

Can you quote a scholar?

Great!!!! So, no more Maniakis theory? This is what i consider a Great Leap Forward.

you don't have a clue about genetics.

Yetos, i understand your complex of inferiority, but i can`t help you. Johane is talking about ancient instruments and homeric legends(this is how many scholars call these legends, homeric) that are preserved among Albanians.
I invite you to stop t-rolling. Take the oudi of your grandfather and start to sing one of those aman-aman like this:
Σαν βγαίνει ο Χότζας στο τζαμί Μπιρ Αλλάχ Πάνος Κατσιμίχας
As Hoxha comes to the mosque Bir Allah
Panos Katsimihas

Σαν βγαίνει ο Χότζας στο τζαμί,
αργά σαν σουρουπώνει,
κι όταν ακούω Μπιρ Αλλάχ,
το στήθος μου ματώνει...

As Hoxha comes to the mosque,
slowly as getting dark,
and when I hear Bir Allah,
my chest blew...

Η Τουρκορωμιοσύνη
ποτέ δεν πεθαίνει!

The Tourkoromiosyni
never dies!
Click to expand...

How do you know My Grandfather played Oud (Ουτι)?
That is TRUE.
it is family relic today at my cousins house.

Second that song is typical of Minor Asia, Smyrna Magnesia etc

3rd,
No superiority NO inferiority,
The ones who has complex is the ones who Strange Co-incdences.
 

guys plz stop stupidity

you are convincing nobody with such parascience methods
 
Johane Derite said:
Really interesting Papadimitriou, appreciate this feedback.

On a tangent:

Is it possible that the greek genitive plural "ÔN" you mentioned here:

"The genitive ending is -o:n but sometimes -a:n in NW Greek. (Ω is considered to have been more open and more long than Ο)"

Is it possible that its cognate with the albanian word "jonë." The meaning is practically the same, above in the Troy speculations
i translated it as "ours" but its more precise defintion would be possessive "belonging to us"

Albanian[edit]

Alternative forms[edit]




Etymology[edit]

Femminine variant of ynë.

Pronoun[edit]

jonë


  1. (attributive) Belonging to us.

Jeta jonë është e bukur
Our life is beautiful.

LINK: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jon%C3%AB

Here is an example of how it sounds (audible at 0:38 seconds "martesa jonë = our marriage)



The albanian word for "I" is "unë"
Click to expand...


One more coincidence here

Deti Jonë = 'our sea' . Αlb

Mare Nostrum = 'our sea' . Lat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum

but
Ιόνιο πελαγος = ? . Gr


The name Ionian comes from the Greek language Ἰόνιον (πέλαγος). Its etymology is unknown.[3] Ancient Greek writers, especially Aeschylus, linked it to the myth of Io. In Ancient Greek the adjective Ionios (Ἰόνιος) was used as an epithet for the sea because Io swam across it.[4][5][6] According to the Oxford Classical Dictionary, the name may derive from Ionians who sailed to the West.[7] There were also narratives about other eponymic legendary figures;[8] according to one version, Ionius was a son of Adrias (eponymic for the Adriatic Sea); according to another, Ionius was a son of Dyrrhachus.[9] When Dyrrhachus was attacked by his own brothers, Heracles, who was passing through the area, came to his aid, but in the fight the hero killed his ally's son by mistake. The body was cast into the water, and thereafter was called the Ionian Sea.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Sea
 
LAB said:
One more coincidence here

Deti Jonë = 'our sea' . Αlb

Mare Nostrum = 'our sea' . Lat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum

but
Ιόνιο πελαγος = ? . Gr


The name Ionian comes from the Greek language Ἰόνιον (πέλαγος). Its etymology is unknown.[3] Ancient Greek writers, especially Aeschylus, linked it to the myth of Io. In Ancient Greek the adjective Ionios (Ἰόνιος) was used as an epithet for the sea because Io swam across it.[4][5][6] According to the Oxford Classical Dictionary, the name may derive from Ionians who sailed to the West.[7] There were also narratives about other eponymic legendary figures;[8] according to one version, Ionius was a son of Adrias (eponymic for the Adriatic Sea); according to another, Ionius was a son of Dyrrhachus.[9] When Dyrrhachus was attacked by his own brothers, Heracles, who was passing through the area, came to his aid, but in the fight the hero killed his ally's son by mistake. The body was cast into the water, and thereafter was called the Ionian Sea.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Sea
Click to expand...

NO Comment

FROM DETI JONE To IONION PELAGOS
the difference is high,

If I follow your Logic
Aegir is a Nordic deity of Sea
then Aegean PELAGO people Were Nordic people

So It is? or It is not a Coincidence?
IF Deti Jone = IONION PELAGOS for Albanians
Same NORDIC Aegir = Aegean Pelagos For Nords

SO NORDICS INHABIT AEGEAN PELAGOS?

JUST FOR :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
Yetos said:
NO Comment

FROM DETI JONE To IONION PELAGOS
the difference is high,

If I follow your Logic
Aegir is a Nordic deity of Sea
then Aegean PELAGO people Were Nordic people

So It is? or It is not a Coincidence?
IF Deti Jone = IONION PELAGOS for Albanians
Same NORDIC Aegir = Aegean Pelagos For Nords

SO NORDICS INHABIT AEGEAN PELAGOS?

JUST FOR :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Click to expand...

Consulting neighbouring languages for an unknowm etymology shouldnt be scandalous. Albanian, Aromanian, any language that is paleobalkan should be consulted and mapped. If it is actually just a coincidence then we move on, no big deal.
 
Johane Derite said:
Consulting neighbouring languages for an unknowm etymology shouldnt be scandalous. Albanian, Aromanian, any language that is paleobalkan should be consulted and mapped. If it is actually just a coincidence then we move on, no big deal.
Click to expand...

Sory
consulting IE languages is better tool
consulting science is an advice

consulting stupid coincidences is just Stupidity

Cause IF I listen all such stupidities
The Aferdita would be Afrodita which is Wrong

as also Deti Jone

WHAT next Iones peoples were they Jone?

Just stupid


The only conversation that is worthy here
was about coins

and you know it
the rest are stupidity

and you know it deep inside you.

that is why from 1970's that propaganda started in Greece, and founded by you know who
never touch someone,
cause it is obvious is just like

Quitar is a Music Organ
Policeman is an organ of law
So Quitar is a policeman

you just repeat the same stupidities again and again and again
just like you did with Aferdita etc etc

IF I FOLLOW YOUR LOGIC
AEGEAN PELAGO IS A NORWEGIAN SEA.

THERE IS NO LOGIC
the only discussion that might have a meaning was that of the Pharos coin

BESIDES
IT IS ANOTHER
Lugini- Lukini which in Greek should be ΛΥΓIΝΙΔΙΩΝ
BUT IS ΛΥΧΝΙΔΙΩΝ

DID Not a war

the same ones caused It

So I report the as just a stupid
 
Yetos said:
Sory
consulting IE languages is better tool
consulting science is an advice
consulting stupid coincidences is just Stupidity
Cause IF I listen all such stupidities
The Aferdita would be Afrodita which is Wrong
as also Deti Jone
WHAT next Iones peoples were they Jone?
Just stupid

The only conversation that is worthy here
was about coins
and you know it
the rest are stupidity
and you know it deep inside you.
that is why from 1970's that propaganda started in Greece, and founded by you know who
never touch someone,
cause it is obvious is just like
Quitar is a Music Organ
Policeman is an organ of law
So Quitar is a policeman
you just repeat the same stupidities again and again and again
just like you did with Aferdita etc etc
IF I FOLLOW YOUR LOGIC
AEGEAN PELAGO IS A NORWEGIAN SEA.
THERE IS NO LOGIC
the only discussion that might have a meaning was that of the Pharos coin
BESIDES
IT IS ANOTHER
Lugini- Lukini which in Greek should be ΛΥΓIΝΙΔΙΩΝ
BUT IS ΛΥΧΝΙΔΙΩΝ
DID Not a war
the same ones caused It
So I report the as just a stupid
Click to expand...
You should read the commentd from A. Papadimitrou. Even when he noticed i had made a mistake he corrected me respectfully and didnt jump to try demean or denigrate, i know how far im throwing the ball in some cases so i can understand even that urge, and the way he even disagreed with me in the end is a sign of nobility in spirit and gets respect. I will continue to post things i can provide, and well see where it leads. You will also learn some interesting new things Yetos, and if you disagree in a coherent way i will accept it.
 
Johane Derite said:
You should read the commentd from A. Papadimitrou. Even when he noticed i had made a mistake he corrected me respectfully and didnt jump to try demean or denigrate, i know how far im throwing the ball in some cases so i can understand even that urge, and the way he even disagreed with me in the end is a sign of nobility in spirit and gets respect. I will continue to post things i can provide, and well see where it leads. You will also learn some interesting new things Yetos, and if you disagree in a coherent way i will accept it.
Click to expand...

Ok I must admit
when I say I follow your logic
I did not ment you,
plz do not take it personally
it is plural your (most persons)
But I do not understand the Thread logic,
 
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