Ancient genomes from Caucasus inc. Maykop

Btw Catacomb is R1b, and not R1a, Maciamo gonna have to change a little bit his paper.
 
We already knew that the Caucasus genetic profile is Anatolian Neolithic + CHG, what can that tell us about the languages spoken in the Caucasus and Europe ?

Etruscan’s genealogical linguistic relationship with Nakh-Daghestanian and other ancient languages like Hurrian and Urartian could very well be explained as emanating from a language spoken by Anatolian farmers.

other theories connect Basque and Georgian.

That is if an ancestor language of Etruscan was indeed spoken by European farmers.
I guess this is because they believe PIE came from south, because new samples of Yamanaya have CHG + Anatolian_Neolithic + EHG, but how do they defferienciate EEF of Anatolia_Neolithic ?
 
Instead to be the homeland of the Mighty it was an international meeting point. Just for fun.
 
It would be odd that they had detected a new anatolian_neolithic that would be different than EEF but the same as Anatolian Bronze Age and that the same Anatolian_Neolithic previously inexistant in the datas and in steppe would than now pop in some steppe samples from the same timeframe that we have between many years. Is there something with their calculator or ?
 
We already knew that the Caucasus genetic profile is Anatolian Neolithic + CHG, what can that tell us about the languages spoken in the Caucasus and Europe ?

Etruscan’s genealogical linguistic relationship with Nakh-Daghestanian and other ancient languages like Hurrian and Urartian could very well be explained as emanating from a language spoken by Anatolian farmers.

other theories connect Basque and Georgian.

That is if an ancestor language of Etruscan was indeed spoken by European farmers.

If European farmers were speaking a language related to Etruscan there would have been an Etruscan-related substrate in all European IE languages.
I associate early Etruscans with Central European pile dwellers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_around_the_Alps

Dionysius of Halikarnassus had associated Tyrrhenians with the first builders of high wooden structures 'resembling towers'.

As regards these Tyrrhenians, some declare them to be natives of Italy, but others call them foreigners. Those who make them a native race say that their name was given them from the forts, which they were the first of the inhabitants of this country to build; for covered buildings enclosed by walls are called by the Tyrrhenian as well as by the Greeks tyrseis or "towers." So they will have it that they received their name from this circumstance in like manner as did the Mossynoeci in Asia; for these also live in high wooden palisades resembling towers, which they call mossynes.

Mossynoeci is a compound word, the second part of that word is Greek and means 'those who live in mossynes (=high wooden palisades resembling towers)'
 
Last edited:
I think Bolshemysskaya P297 sample in Altai, predating afanasievo, would be connected to steppe Maykop R1b, sintashta z2103 with dominant west siberia HG, Botai M73 (botai samples are extremely rare).

Maybe Round2 would be Greek bronze and China bronze, being buried in supine position.

The practice of digging shaft tombs was a widespread phenomenon with prominent examples found in Mycenaean Greece; in Bronze Age China; and in Mesoamerican Western Mexico.[2]
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...Waves-into-Southeast-Asia?p=534836#post534836 (#14)
 
P5tjuR4.png



The only sound conclusion I can draw from this is that the common Caucasus ancestry between Transcaucasia and the Steppe was driven by female-mediated gene flow, how that happened may not be as stupid as my mind pictures it for me.

Its true Hajji Fairoz was Z2013, but given how large the admixture into the north is, you would expect at least one guy who is L or J or G. and yet none have been found.

If their society was matriarchial, then PIE could have been spoken south of Caucasus, else all IE language branches fall to the north, even Anatolian.

Those mtDna lineages indicate to me that there was bride exchange going both ways, but the impact north of the Caucasus might have been greater since the population density would have been less.

I have to go back and comb through it again, but the only samples I recall which had definite autosomal gene flow from a late Maykop type group were some of the "Steppe Maykop" ones.

Also, as I said, I don't see much difference between Late Maykop and Kura Araxes, so that ancestry definitely moved north.
 
Those mtDna lineages indicate to me that there was bride exchange going both ways, but the impact north of the Caucasus might have been greater since the population density would have been less.

I have to go back and comb through it again, but the only samples I recall which had definite autosomal gene flow from a late Maykop type group were some of the "Steppe Maykop" ones.

Also, as I said, I don't see much difference between Late Maykop and Kura Araxes, so that ancestry definitely moved north.

if there was bride exchange both sides of the Caucasus, it must have been before the arrival of Anatolian farmers south of the Caucasus,
and then, it stopped
 
How does the "steppe" that the amateurs found in some early Armenian groups fit into all this?

Made me lol, considering me trying to tell those guys how on earth could you expect or be so sure that there was no EHG related ancestry in the Caucasus and adjusting region already by Late_Neolithic.

I was 100% convinced we would find EHG like ancestry in Caucasus.
 
if there was bride exchange both sides of the Caucasus, it must have been before the arrival of Anatolian farmers south of the Caucasus,
and then, it stopped

Why do you say that, Bicicleur?
 
This is getting muddy in terms of the genetics.

"An interesting observation is that steppe zone individuals directly north of the592 Caucasus (Eneolithic Samara and Eneolithic steppe) had initially not received any593 gene flow from Anatolian farmers. Instead, the ancestry profile in Eneolithic steppe594 individuals shows an even mixture of EHG and CHG ancestry, which argues for an595 effective cultural and genetic border between the contemporaneous Eneolithic populations in the North Caucasus, notably Steppe and Caucasus. Due to the temporal597 limitations of our dataset, we currently cannot determine whether this ancestry is598 stemming from an existing natural genetic gradient running from EHG far to the north599 to CHG/Iran in the south or whether this is the result of farmers with Iranian farmer/600 CHG-related ancestry reaching the steppe zone independent of and prior to a stream601 of Anatolian farmer-like ancestry, where they mixed with local hunter-gatherers that602 carried only EHG ancestry."

Well, if it wasn't there before, and then it was there, wouldn't you lean toward it moving in, especially as it's showing up in steppe Maykop?

Anyway, this is helpful to keeping it straight:
1C1HBTo.png
[/IMG]

eAWpDSX.png
[/IMG]
Holy crap Steppe Maykop far more EHG than Yamnaya? As I wrote in a post at the Central_ South Asian thread. How does this work with the narrative "EHG exclusive to north like Steppe/East Europe, CHG/Iran_Neo exclusive Iranian Plateau_Caucasus"? How can a part of a southern culture have more EHG than a culture further North from which according to some people they should have actually absorbed it.

Well, there's no R1b south of the Caucasus in this set, that's for sure.

Considering we found it in Kura Araxes and on the Iranian Plateau with no EHG admixture. I don't doubt there is some sleeping in Maykop culture with far more EHG too.

12 samples is good but far from enough for a real picture of the yDNA landscape.
But still as I said, I don't think Maykop is the origin of influence into Yamnaya. It is a little East. Leyla Tepe, North/Northwest/West Iran.
 
Concerning the samples labeled as 'Kura-Araxes' the G2b sample is from Armenia, NW of Gyumri but very close to the borders with Turkey. The J1 sample is from Dagestan, Russia, NW of Derbent. The distance between the two is 390km. The older R1b(xM269) sample was from the region N of Lake Sevan.
 
Why do you say that, Bicicleur?

if there was still bridal exchange after Anatolian farmers had arrived south of Caucasus, then there also should have been autosomal Anatolian farmer in the steppe, quod non
 
well we have 2 different genetic entities living next to each other without a barrier that seperates them (frontiers are even shifting), but no substantial admixture between both for at least 3000 years

isn't that amazing?
 
Why would there be ? Isn't E1b1b1 the lineage of Natufians and some EEF ? Why would they be in the Caucasus ?

yes but still bummer :(
because in south caucasus{armenia} it was present since bronze age .....
 
Did you even bother reading the paper? This paper burried your Steppes hypothesis finally. Even the authors themselve say this. Embarrassing.

Where, exactly? All I'm seeing is the hedging of their bets.
 
if there was still bridal exchange after Anatolian farmers had arrived south of Caucasus, then there also should have been autosomal Anatolian farmer in the steppe, quod non

The authors say there IS autosomal Anatolian farmer in the steppe.
 

Their Eneolithic steppe sample in Admixture is far more than 50% CHG. In Samara Eneolithic, the CHG gets cut down a bit by WHG and, what, East Asian? Still, more than 50%.

CHG was on the steppe very early indeed. Perhaps that's why they put in all that language about pre-existing clines.
 
Lol their chart shows CHG in Motala, CWC more CHG than EHG please... here we going away of PIE, we are reconstructd the genetic prehistory of europe with CHG in is core.
 

This thread has been viewed 239430 times.

Back
Top