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Thread: J haplogroup of Phoenician and Greek colonizations

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    J haplogroup of Phoenician and Greek colonizations

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-25912-9

    A finely resolved phylogeny of Y chromosome Hg J illuminates the processes of Phoenician and Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean

    Andrea Finocchio, Beniamino Trombetta, Francesco Messina, Eugenia D’Atanasio, Nejat Akar, Aphrodite Loutradis, Emmanuel I. Michalodimitrakis, Fulvio Cruciani & Andrea Novelletto

    Scientific Reportsvolume 8, Article number: 7465 (2018)
    doi:10.1038/s41598-018-25912-9


    Received: 10 January 2018
    Accepted: 25 April 2018
    Published: 10 May 2018

    Abstract

    In order to improve the phylogeography of the male-specific genetic traces of Greek and Phoenician colonizations on the Northern coasts of the Mediterranean, we performed a geographically structured sampling of seven subclades of haplogroup J in Turkey, Greece and Italy. We resequenced 4.4 Mb of Y-chromosome in 58 subjects, obtaining 1079 high quality variants. We did not find a preferential coalescence of Turkish samples to ancestral nodes, contradicting the simplistic idea of a dispersal and radiation of Hg J as a whole from the Middle East. Upon calibration with an ancient Hg J chromosome, we confirmed that signs of Holocenic Hg J radiations are subtle and date mainly to the Bronze Age. We pinpointed seven variants which could potentially unveil star clusters of sequences, indicative of local expansions. By directly genotyping these variants in Hg J carriers and complementing with published resequenced chromosomes (893 subjects), we provide strong temporal and distributional evidence for markers of the Greek settlement of Magna Graecia (J2a-L397) and Phoenician migrations (rs760148062). Our work generated a minimal but robust list of evolutionarily stable markers to elucidate the demographic dynamics and spatial domains of male-mediated movements across and around the Mediterranean, in the last 6,000 years.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

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    "With the caveat of a equalized sampling across clades, we simply observed a stasis in the 15-5 kya time window in the whole tree, followed by a sudden increase at 5 kya, in line with most European populations42.

    Of the internal clades, only J1-M267 and J2b-M12 displayed the same growth phase at approximately 5 kya. In the context of the recent explosive increase in world population size "







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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    From a thread I started in J2. Figured I would move it here.

    Found this and thought it was Interesting.

    J2a L397 is my paternal lineage..


    My Y-DNA Haplogroup is J2a1h2a1 [J2-L70 (J2-L397, J2-L398)]


    Makes a lot of sense. I can trace my paternal ancestry almost 1,000 years to Languedoc France.


    Pretty sure they were Franks.


    "Finally, we explored the distribution of J2a-L397 and three derived lineages within it. J2a-L397 is tightly associated with a typical DYS445 6-repeat allele. This has been hypothesized as a marker of the Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean55, based on its presence in Greek Anatolia and Provence (France), a region with attested Iron Age Greek contribution. All of our chromosomes in this clade were characterized also by DYS391(9), confirming their Anatolian Greek signature. We resolved the J2a-L397 clade to an unprecedented precision, with three internal markers which allow a finer discrimination than STRs. The ages of the three lineages (2.0–3.0 kya) are compatible with the beginning of the Greek colonial period, in the 8th century BCE."


    "We provided here the strongest temporal and distributional evidence so far for markers which can be attributed to the Greek settlement of Magna Graecia. This process cannot be expected to have conveyed only J2a-L397, but other lineages as well: for example E-V1359, which left a clear signal across the Mediterranean28,55. J2a-L397 in Central-Southern Continental Italy accounts for only 13% (24/182) of Hg J. At a face value this can be taken as a bottom figure for the Greek contribution to the gene pool of the region."

    A finely resolved phylogeny of Y chromosome Hg J illuminates the processes of Phoenician and Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-25912-9

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    This is not a thread on ancient dna, so I am moving it to the correct section.


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    The paper is quite interesting. It should give more light to the presence of J2 Z435, and its clades in Italy. DYS 445 6 together with DYS 391 9, confirms both greek and Anatolian greek signature, both are characteristic of J2 Z435 . Maybe the Minoan presence in the Italian peninsula, with it's cyclopic walls for example, should prove that they contribute with much more than thought in ancient Italy. Probably the mutations CTS3601 or Z2117, occurred in Italy and afterwards they were spread throughout the Mediterranean with the roman empire, as predicted by Maciamo, for example.

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    Minoan presence on the Italian Peninsula? Where do you guys get these ideas from? And Cyclopean walls are absent from bronze age Italy except for Sardinia and anyway are more of a Mycenaean thing than a Minoan feature.

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    J haplogroup of Phoenician and Greek colonizations

    You're right I'm sorry, I wanted to say Mycenaean , not Minoan.
    Last edited by Juan.delajara; 02-06-18 at 06:08.

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    I used the walls example, although I understand the 'Cyclopean walls' in Italy are dated between the VIII and V century AC, they were attributed to pelasgians by ancient authors. I'm convinced that those references to pelasgians, such as those made by Strabo, were related mainly to mycenaeans, that migrated to Italy after the decline of their civilization. The word pelasgians, was probably used as a synonymous of 'ancient greek'.

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    The Mycenaean civilization collapsed around 1200 bc, those walls are dated to 500-300 bc there's quite a discrepancy
    Last edited by Pygmalion; 02-06-18 at 15:13.

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    Maciamo and Azzurro, as you've made some analysis regarding Haplogroup J in Greece and Italy, any comments regarding this paper?

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    Well to be precise there is also the Castellieri culture (Castellieri were castles, usually located on hills or mountains, built and used from the bronze age onwards).
    Castellieri culture was probably brought from the sea and has clear ties to micenean civilization.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    I have my eye for a long time on this paper, as a person that belongs to J2-M205 and someone who researches this haplogroup out of curiosity, i have to say that i am not satisfied with this research, methods and conclusions, scientists have done within this research, at least when haplogroup J2-M205 is concern.


    Researchers of this study have simply go by method of trying to find Phoenician and Greek colonisation remains thru testing modern living people.
    Focusing on Turkey, Greece and Italy. Even tho i agree with them when identifying Phoenician lines in haplogroup like J1a (FGC15940 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y6094/, or Greek traces in haplogroup J2a in mentioned clades. However, i do not agree about anything they have written about J2-M205 here. And its obvious that their focus is leaning towards J1 and J2a while they even admit that they don't understand J2-M205 and are particularly reserved towards J2-M205 even tho in my opinion it has strongest proves out of all haplogroups to identify it as Phoenician marker that spread thru Mediterranean.


    I will start with quoting some of the claims made in this research regarding J2-M205:

    The carriers of the derived allele at rs779180992 had a centroid significantly shifted to the East, being found in Italy, the Balkan Peninsula, Northern Turkey, Caucasus and in two Middle Easterners, but neither in Sardinia nor Crete. Their sampling distances did not differ (p = n.s.) from the carriers of the ancestral allele. In the STR network, chromosomes derived at rs779180992 did not show any central haplotype, and were variable at all loci but DYS393.


    J2-M205>PH4306 mentioned here is split into three major brother clades, going by Yfull early separation brother clade is found in Palestine.
    Furthermore separation occurred and its found in Qatar and Kuwait, and in Greek from Turkey. Its found in Sicily - Italy, and in France.
    Also main Balkan clade Y22059 is one of early separated brother clades with distribution over the Adriatic Sea with its old tribe and presence identified in 12 century Montenegro.

    It has brotherclades within CTS1969 found in Sardinia, also Spain and England.

    It didnt show any central haplotype because its dispersed thru Middle East and Mediterranean sea in multiple subclades bypassing Turkey or Greece as significant stations, even tho Greece shows much higher impact of J2-M205 in multiple branches also bypassing Turkey. Its obviously spread by ancient sea travellers where Phoenicians are best candidates.




    The lineage defined by rs779180992, belonging to J2b-M205, and dated at 4–4.5 kya, has a radically different distribution, with derived alleles in Continental Italy, Greece and Northern Turkey, and two instances in a Palestinian and a Jew. The interpretation of the spread of this lineage is not straightforward. Tentative hypotheses are linked to Southward movements that occurred in the Balkan Peninsula from the Bronze Age29,53, through the Roman occupation and later54.

    Here they conclude about J1 and J2a their Phoenician/Greek expansion but when trying to understand J2-M205 they say interpretation is not straightforward, practically admitting they don't understand J2-M205 and its too complicated for them. Either that or they just refuse to see/accept obvious facts.

    So i dont understand, why would they ever mentioned J2-M205 if they are not trying to understand it themselves but they just holded for other researches that speculatively, and also as its said here tentatively without sufficient gathered knowledge tried to explain haplogroup itself or its expansion. So what they did here is they just quoted other research explanation, doding in that way to actually research the haplogroup by themselves. Its like they didnt want to exclude J2-M205 from research, but they didnt do any research on it by themselves but they copy pasted other researches practically not bothering with it too much with it saving them time.

    Furthermore is it even necessary to speak about that J2-M205 has one of its highest presences at Cyprus Greeks, and furthermore expansion to Italy, Sardinia, Spain, France and finally England. All that in multiple subclades separated within 6000 years, often sharing TMRCA with Middle Easterners in timeframe of 2000-4000 years.

    Main Balkan branch Y22059 that is also part of PH4306 has closest brother clades in Palestine and Qatar, but also in Sicily and France (PH4306). Further brother clades are found in Spain and also England.
    TMRCA 6000 years, in some instances shared with Middle East in timeframe 2200-4000 years. So it is definitively prior to Roman expansion and its not accident we find it in Sicily and Sardinia as both were Phoenician colonies.



    No J2b-M12 carriers were found among 35 modern Lebanese, as contrasted to one of two ancient specimens from the same region35.

    Here they conclude there is no J2b-M12* Lebanese as contrast to J2-M205 sample found in ancient region corresponding with Phoenicia (Sidon).

    This statement is false because as its obvious their sample was only 35 and you cant bring conclusions is there found some haplogroup or not among some people based on 35 samples lol.
    Are these people serious ?


    In research "A global analysis of Y-chromosomal haplotype diversity for 23 STR loci" which has high number of Lebanese samples we find it in approximately 1.5 %.
    And that is only J2-M205, not to mention there is also J2b-Z2453 also found among Lebanese which also falls under J2b-M12*.


    J2-M205 is found in Cyprus with high percentage (6%) - Y-chromosome phylogeographic analysis of the Greek-Cypriot population reveals elements consistent with Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements

    J2-M205 found in Phoenician colonies and historical neighbours (Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions: Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean). Found in: Syria, Palestine, Cyprus, and Malta.

    J2-M205 has very high diversity and its noticeable throughout Mediterranean Sea and especially from Western Fertile Crescent throughout the Mediterranean Sea all the way to Atlantic Ocean. And another primary branch spread from Palestine, Jordan, North Arabia all the way South to Oman and Yemen during the Bronze and Iron age.


    Also since J2-M205 has confirmed Phoenician, Sidon 1700 BCE ancient DNA, there is no need to try to confirm this thru modern living samples, even tho when actually going thru modern living samples J2-M205 is one of clearest haplogroups that would represent Phoenician expansion as it is backuped by both ancient DNA and modern distribution.


    Having oldest ancient DNA in timeframe of 4500 ybp and our overall M205 TMRCA being 5500-6000 ybp, is pretty much self-explanatory and not "complicated" as researches of this study first implied.

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