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Thread: 1 million Uighurs thrown into "re-education" camps

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    1 million Uighurs thrown into "re-education" camps



    See:
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...e_iOSApp_Other

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    wrong link

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    This is to do with the recent decision of the chinese government last month to burn all religious books, bible, koran etc and direct china back to a non-religious nation

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-0...stores/9616560

    Late last year, Chinese President Xi Jinping — who recently abolished term limits for the Chinese presidency — made it clear there would be a crackdown on foreign religions this year.

    Mr Xi had said religions could operate only if they were "Chinese in orientation" and that Beijing "must provide active guidance to religions so that they can adapt themselves to socialist society" — which experts saw as an part of an ongoing crackdown by the ruling party.

    Tuesday's white paper said China's main religions were Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism and Christianity. It added that of its nearly 200 million religious citizens, Christians accounted for more than 38 million, while Catholics made up about 6 million.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Very sad, this is another example of why communism cannot function without violence, and oppression to terrorize or kill anyone that does not comply.

    "You watch for signs — indications of a dangerous mindset — including this one: Has a person quit smoking? That may be evidence of religious zealotry."

    Absolutely insane.




    Seems like a pretty large territory.

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    I wonder what will be the magnitude of social upheaval in China, once automations end the need for outsourced low-cost human labor in the future. That combined with this kind of oppression may serve to facilitate a lot of internal strife against the communist government.

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    2 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Europe has its own pervasive censorship and mass-indoctrination of falsehoods nowadays, supported by a horde of well-meaning idiots. China is no different, but I foresee Europe reaching the same level of efficiency and arrogance before long.

    It does appear China is pro-actively dealing with Islam in a slightly more humane manner than Islam deals with infidels, which would be the next level of efficiency and arrogance.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    Europe has its own pervasive censorship and mass-indoctrination of falsehoods nowadays, supported by a horde of well-meaning idiots. China is no different, but I foresee Europe reaching the same level of efficiency and arrogance before long.

    It does appear China is pro-actively dealing with Islam in a slightly more humane manner than Islam deals with infidels, which would be the next level of efficiency and arrogance.
    Did you even read the article? How the hell is that anything equivalent to modern-day Europe?

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    I don't think their Catholicism is sanctioned by the Pope, thus is not genuine. Nonetheless, why not just call it Christianity as that's the name of the religion. Having 2 categories is superfluous as Catholicism is just a type of Christianity.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I wonder what will be the magnitude of social upheaval in China, once automations end the need for outsourced low-cost human labor in the future. That combined with this kind of oppression may serve to facilitate a lot of internal strife against the communist government.
    the Chinese leaders are well aware that their economy can't rely on low wages any more
    they try to convert their economy into a economy based on knowledge
    I don't know whether they'll succeed
    but I wouldn't underestimate the creativity of the Chinese people

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    with religion or without religion does not make a country poorer or richer ..........religion only works if it takes a very very minor influence on a nations decision ...............the period of king and religion is long gone .
    Besides , one does not need any company to pray, one does not even need a place to pray ..............the best way to use religion is alone.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Did you even read the article? How the hell is that anything equivalent to modern-day Europe?
    China pulls books that are incompatible with the state ideology from online stores, Europe does the same. Of course Europe says it's combating hate speech, but it's still political censorship, and it's censorship of political ideologies that are most at odds with the state ideology that is preached in schools. The only radical ideology that seems to get some leeway is Communism, even though it's the ideology responsible for some of the greatest crimes against humanity.

    The Chinese state moves in millions of non-Uighurs into Uighur territory. The European states move millions of non-Europeans into European territory.

    China imprisons people who violate speech laws, Europe imprisons people who violate speech laws.

    Most Chinese support speech restricting laws, engage in self-censorship, and help authorities arrest thought criminals. Most Europeans support speech restricting laws, engage in self-censorship, and help authorities arrest thought criminals.

    China bans opposition parties, there are countless examples of European nations banning opposition parties.

    The only difference is that China is arguably less humane, but Europe is becoming notorious for placing political prisoners in solitary confinement which all experts agree to be a form of torture.

    Chinese jails appear to be primarily a form of slave labor, so arguably it's better to end up working 10 hours a day in a Chinese jail for a year than to spend a year in solitary confinement in a European jail, as the latter is likely to cause permanent psychological damage.

    Europe is most definitely headed down a slippery slope, especially if inmate on inmate violence and rape is taken into account, which appears to be less of a problem in China.

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    3 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    China pulls books that are incompatible with the state ideology from online stores, Europe does the same. Of course Europe says it's combating hate speech, but it's still political censorship, and it's censorship of political ideologies that are most at odds with the state ideology that is preached in schools. The only radical ideology that seems to get some leeway is Communism, even though it's the ideology responsible for some of the greatest crimes against humanity.

    The Chinese state moves in millions of non-Uighurs into Uighur territory. The European states move millions of non-Europeans into European territory.

    China imprisons people who violate speech laws, Europe imprisons people who violate speech laws.

    Most Chinese support speech restricting laws, engage in self-censorship, and help authorities arrest thought criminals. Most Europeans support speech restricting laws, engage in self-censorship, and help authorities arrest thought criminals.

    China bans opposition parties, there are countless examples of European nations banning opposition parties.

    The only difference is that China is arguably less humane, but Europe is becoming notorious for placing political prisoners in solitary confinement which all experts agree to be a form of torture.

    Chinese jails appear to be primarily a form of slave labor, so arguably it's better to end up working 10 hours a day in a Chinese jail for a year than to spend a year in solitary confinement in a European jail, as the latter is likely to cause permanent psychological damage.

    Europe is most definitely headed down a slippery slope, especially if inmate on inmate violence and rape is taken into account, which appears to be less of a problem in China.
    Those are false equivalencies, you're not tortured to death or psychologically indoctrinated in camps, in Europe. They don't mass incarcerate people based on ethnicity in Europe. They don't make it illegal to practice your faith in Europe.

    They don't classify you as having a pre-disposition to violence just because of the year you were born:


    Young Uyghurs are especially targeted — people under 40. A report from RFA quotes a village security official, who says, “People born in the 1980s and 1990s have been categorized as part of a violent generation — many of whom have been taken into reeducation under this category.” I’m reminded of Cuba, where many have been arrested on the charge of “pre-criminal social dangerousness.”

    China is a notorious human rights violator, it's absurd to compare them to Europe.

    On top of that, we don't know the actual extent of cruelty going on in Chinese prisons and gulags; I doubt the communist government would be forthcoming with that.

    But I'd rather be incarcerated in Europe, than China any day.




    Here's the cell they held Anders Behring Breivik in, in Norway. That looks better than some people's apartments that they pay a lot of money for. He murdered over seventy children of politicians as an act of terrorism against the state. This is too good for a mass murderer. Do you think he would even be alive right now, if it were in China?! Give me a break.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 25-05-18 at 01:26.

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    THATS A PRISON CELL????!!!! ^^^ Looks like a nice little manhattan pad; its like he's being rewarded for what he did. Pretty much everywhere else you'd end up in a cold cage for robbing from a convenience store, let alone murduring 70 people (assuming whomevers in charge decides to keep you alive after the bloodshed)
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Those are false equivalencies, you're not tortured to death or psychologically indoctrinated in camps, in Europe. They don't mass incarcerate people based on ethnicity in Europe. They don't make it illegal to practice your faith in Europe.

    They don't classify you as having a pre-disposition to violence just because of the year you were born:


    Young Uyghurs are especially targeted — people under 40. A report from RFA quotes a village security official, who says, “People born in the 1980s and 1990s have been categorized as part of a violent generation — many of whom have been taken into reeducation under this category.” I’m reminded of Cuba, where many have been arrested on the charge of “pre-criminal social dangerousness.”

    China is a notorious human rights violator, it's absurd to compare them to the Europe.

    On top of that, we don't know the actual extent of cruelty going on in Chinese prisons and gulags; I doubt the communist government would be forthcoming with that.

    But I'd rather be incarcerated in the Europe, than China any day.




    Here's the cell they held Anders Behring Breivik in, in Norway. That looks better than some people's apartments that they pay a lot of money for. He murdered over seventy children of politicians as an act of terrorism against the state. This is too good for a mass murderer. Do you think he would even be alive right now, if it were in China?! Give me a break.
    Totally agree: it's an absurd comparison.

    I have to say, while I think the conditions in American prisons are inhumane, that "cell" is far better than he deserves. He killed children for God's sake.

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    Does that prison have like a golf course or equestrian center?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    THATS A PRISON CELL????!!!!
    It takes 1 minute of googling to find out it's fake news. I suggest you do your own research, also, calculate how many people a government could hire to manipulate public opinion on the Internet with a 2 billion budget.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    It takes 1 minute of googling to find out it's fake news. I suggest you do your own research, also, calculate how many people a government could hire to manipulate public opinion on the Internet with a 2 billion budget.
    What is fake news?

    If it's fake, prove it. Simple.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    It takes 1 minute of googling to find out it's fake news. I suggest you do your own research, also, calculate how many people a government could hire to manipulate public opinion on the Internet with a 2 billion budget.
    It's laughable you have to resort to down voting posts, since you're unable to properly respond.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ail/ar-AAd5I2E
    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...eb2ca7cf9420d4
    http://www.businessinsider.com/breiv...ditions-2016-3




    Breivik's world

    Three cells - one for sleeping, one for studying, one for exercising - plus daily access to exercise yard


    • Can play video games, watch TV and read newspapers
    • Has a computer (without internet access)
    • Can prepare his own food and do his own washing
    • Has phone conversations with a "female friend"
    • Contact with prison staff, lawyers, a priest, health professionals
    • Has declined to play chess with volunteers
    • Built a gingerbread house as part of a prison competition



    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35813470
    It is ridiculous to think this is any indication of a trend towards Chinese style gulags or the experience of the Uighurs in China.

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    @Expredel,
    You have a problem with being asked to prove your assertions?

    If you can't prove it and you don't apologize for posting incorrect information, then you deliberately posted incorrect information. There are consequences for deliberately trying to deceive other members.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If you can't prove it and you don't apologize for posting incorrect information, then you deliberately posted incorrect information. There are consequences for deliberately trying to deceive other members.
    If I prove it, does that mean Jovialis has to post an apology?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders...39;s_testimony

    Based on the Wikipedia article ABB has 3 small cells, in order to use one of the other cells he's subjected to two humiliating strip searches which are normally only used on prisoners that enter the prison after leaving it, like going to a funeral.

    He's been awoken every 40 minutes during the night for the past 7 years because he's on indefinite suicide watch. That really is shocking.

    Windows in his cells have been blacked out, and he's allowed outside for 20 minutes once every two weeks.

    He's confined to his cell 23 hours a day and guards have been instructed not to speak to him.

    He's not been allowed to send out visitation forms, so he gets no visitations, other then an official who visits him once every two weeks.

    98% of his letters have been blocked from being sent, and he's not allowed to give people his mailing address.

    So he's been in solitary confinement for 7 years, gets strip-searched several times a day, has been allowed to send 5 letters in the past 5 years, and is subjected to sleep deprivation.

    If he gets to send 1 letter a year he probably gets 1 phone call a year as well. It took me less than a minute to skim the Wikipedia article to find this information. Regardless of his crimes, this sounds like a torturous existence to me.

    The pictures linked are obviously fake, no blacked out windows, and there's all kinds of stuff in that cell that someone on suicide watch wouldn't be allowed to have.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    If I prove it, does that mean Jovialis has to post an apology?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders...39;s_testimony

    Based on the Wikipedia article ABB has 3 small cells, in order to use one of the other cells he's subjected to two humiliating strip searches which are normally only used on prisoners that enter the prison after leaving it, like going to a funeral.

    He's been awoken every 40 minutes during the night for the past 7 years because he's on indefinite suicide watch. That really is shocking.

    Windows in his cells have been blacked out, and he's allowed outside for 20 minutes once every two weeks.

    He's confined to his cell 23 hours a day and guards have been instructed not to speak to him.

    He's not been allowed to send out visitation forms, so he gets no visitations, other then an official who visits him once every two weeks.

    98% of his letters have been blocked from being sent, and he's not allowed to give people his mailing address.

    So he's been in solitary confinement for 7 years, gets strip-searched several times a day, has been allowed to send 5 letters in the past 5 years, and is subjected to sleep deprivation.

    If he gets to send 1 letter a year he probably gets 1 phone call a year as well. It took me less than a minute to skim the Wikipedia article to find this information. Regardless of his crimes, this sounds like a torturous existence to me.

    The pictures linked are obviously fake, no blacked out windows, and there's all kinds of stuff in that cell that someone on suicide watch wouldn't be allowed to have.
    You've failed to provide links disproving anything I've presented. I've provided links to reputable news sites confirming what I've posted. Just because you think it isn't true, means absolutely nothing.

    That is HIS testimony on a Wikipedia page for a case that was rejected by Norway's supreme court, because it is absolutely preposterous.


    His appeal had raised dismay, and some laughter, among Norwegians taken aback by Breivik’s complaints of cold coffee and microwaved meals he said were “worse than waterboarding”.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-no...-idUKKBN18Z17J


    You're deliberately spreading misinformation.

    You're just trying to divert attention away from the laughable claim you made, that this is the equivalent to a Chinese style gulag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    It took me less than a minute to skim the Wikipedia article to find this information
    Yeah, I can tell, since it was such a flaccid effort at trying to prove your point.

    Edit:

    So despite being provided the most luxurious prison accommodations in the world; the fact that a terrorist that killed over seventy children of politicians, is allowed make such a testimony speaks for itself. That it would be given the time and the resources, to hear such a ridiculous accusation. It further proves my point, which it is nothing like China, or trending in that way. Do you think the Chinese government would ever hear a case like this in court? If you’re suggesting this is akin to the experience of the people in East Turkestan, that’s completely absurd.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 25-05-18 at 16:39.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Here's a post by Razib Khan on this topic.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    Here's a post by Razib Khan on this topic.
    He's right to an extent. I tend to like how his mind works because he's relentlessly logical and has a nose for hypocrisy on all sides.

    However, there's an added factor in terms of the attitudes toward the U.S. We're powerful too, but the Palestinians are the elephant in the room. Their suffering and their terrorism are front and center. The Uygurs aren't in everyone's face.

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    t

    How Many Millions of People Have Been Killed in America's Post-9/11 ...

    The war in Iraq had this justifications:


    Britain was 'misled' and 'misinformed' by US over Iraq's WMDs | SBS ...



    Then when the "boots on the ground" war was over the US used the drone tactic, with this result:
    Do Not Believe the U.S. Government's Official Numbers on Drone ...

    I do not post this a link as a provocation or ******** but to remind the controversial role of the USA in contemporary world affairs. Moral preaching and lecturing by the americans is kinda laughable.
    Obviously what China is doing in East Turkistan is not good.


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