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Thread: 4,000 yo chariots found in northern India

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.

    4,000 yo chariots found in northern India



    That's certainly a biggie that plugs a hole.

    I can't find any more specific information that provided in this article

    See:
    https://www.archaeology.org/news/666...er-decorations

    "UTTAR PRADESH, INDIA—Outlook India reports that three chariots dating to about 1800 B.C. have been unearthed in northern India, at a site made up of eight burials. “The wheels rotated on a fixed axle linked by a draft pole to the yoke of a pair of animals,” said S. K. Manjul of the Institute of Archaeology in Delhi. “The axle was attached with a superstructure consisting of a platform protected by side-screens and a high dashboard.” Copper shaped into triangles thought to represent the rays of the sun decorated the wheels and the pole. Swords with copper-covered hilts, shields, daggers, a helmet, beads, and combs were also recovered. Manjul said the coffins in the burial pits were decorated with copper-plated figures with horns and leafy crowns, suggesting those buried in them may have been royalty. The sides of the coffins were decorated with floral motifs. "


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    very interesting, found near Sanauli village, found this video
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOQKNqu0NE#
    also a copper sword... no incineration... no tumulus? the objects are quite exotic except the comb motive, I would say I have seen it in another place.
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    I'd like to see both the swords and the charriot.
    What do they mean by sword and charriot?
    1800 BC is the very earliest date for decent swords, but there existed quite long daggers before.
    And they claim there were chariots in Mesopotamia 2000 BC.
    Sure they don't confuse chariots with wagons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I'd like to see both the swords and the charriot.
    What do they mean by sword and charriot?
    1800 BC is the very earliest date for decent swords, but there existed quite long daggers before.
    And they claim there were chariots in Mesopotamia 2000 BC.
    Sure they don't confuse chariots with wagons?
    As I said, I couldn't find anything other than this. Did you follow the link to outlook India?
    https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscr...h-sain/1322979

    They claim it's not Harappan, but a different culture, and that there were both swords and daggers.

    I don't think it's too early for some steppe introgression, if that's what's worrying you.
    Last edited by Angela; 07-06-18 at 02:22.

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    The Indo-Aryans are supposed to have arrived around the Hindu Kush around 1800 BCE. Even though they did not start politically conquering Uttar Pradesh until 1200-1100 BCE, it is completely conceivable that they already launched some forays into the regions as soon as they arrived in Punjab. They probably just lacked the numbers to extend themselves over such a large region at once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As I said, I couldn't find anything other than this. Did you follow the link to outlook India?
    https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscr...h-sain/1322979

    They claim it's not Harappan, but a different culture, and that there were both swords and daggers.

    I don't think it's too early for some steppe introgression, if that's what's worrying you.
    yes, I know, the info is very scant, and I didn't find anything more either
    as Maciamo says, Indo-Aryan chariots 1800 BC may be possible,
    but I'm even more surprised by the 'swords'
    if they find one decent sword, they should find many more from that date on in India
    and chariots in Mesopotamia 2000 BC ? no

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    The ring and dot pattern's on the bronze item are interesting, as its a common occurrence on many post bronze age item's found throughout Europe, as well, especially Roman, post Roman, and pre christian, and beyond.

    In the Northern area's of Europe they are sometimes associated with triangular patterns alongside,or next to ring and dot etc, and it seems these are formed with a similar association. It will be interesting to find out where these originate, ( Indo- European ? ) or weather the decorations are more of a global standard use.

    The horned symbols look as though they are part of some headdress association, not too distant from late Bronze age/Iron age depictions of Northern Europe etc, if that is what they are, its hard to see clearly.

    One of the most visual evidence's of this association ( ring & dot, and triangular decoration ) is to be found in the masonry decoration surrounding the top area of 'Mausoleum of Theodoric' in Ravenna Italy c 520 AD.
    Last edited by paul333; 07-06-18 at 19:35.

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    Tweets about the chariot find and what it might mean, and also a picture.

    https://twitter.com/vagheesh/status/1004342125406965761

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    both chariot and the sword look like the real thing

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    http://www.gazzetta.gr/plus/diethni/...as-4000-hronon

    ?????

    why they also killed/burried the horses?

    anyway, until now such chariots, were else had beeen found?

    ok some time,
    I must add
    that the 1rst above photo is wrong
    Last edited by Yetos; 08-06-18 at 05:57.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    why they also killed/burried the horses?
    Probably so the man could take his horses with him to the afterlife.
    Or for transportation to the afterlife.

    The heroon shaft graves from lefkandi euboea (ca. 1000 bc) also had horses buried there alongside people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    http://www.gazzetta.gr/plus/diethni/...as-4000-hronon

    ?????

    why they also killed/burried the horses?

    anyway, until now such chariots, were else had beeen found?
    The photo in that article should be from a somewhere else. See the twitter account of Vagheesh Narasimhan ( Link in Angela's #8 post)

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    The photo in that article should be from a somewhere else. See the twitter account of Vagheesh Narasimhan ( Link in Angela's #8 post)
    you are correct,
    it is from the China ones.

    found the correct ones,

    So next is to compare them with the ones of Sintastha, or the ones from Messopotamia,
    since the differences are about 1-3 centuries,
    that gives new dimensions in the theories,

    wonder which theory are measuring now, to make a new coffin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    The photo in that article should be from a somewhere else. See the twitter account of Vagheesh Narasimhan ( Link in Angela's #8 post)
    all very confusing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    you are correct,
    it is from the China ones.

    found the correct ones,

    So next is to compare them with the ones of Sintastha, or the ones from Messopotamia,
    since the differences are about 1-3 centuries,
    that gives new dimensions in the theories,

    wonder which theory are measuring now, to make a new coffin.
    Well, I'm confused too. What are your sources for this?

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    Making unsubstantiated claims is not very helpful, gentlemen.

    These sure as heck look like Indian investigators being photographed with the finds!

    https://www.indiatimes.com/news/indi...li-346843.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Making unsubstantiated claims is not very helpful, gentlemen.

    These sure as heck look like Indian investigators being photographed with the finds!

    https://www.indiatimes.com/news/indi...li-346843.html
    the link does not work

    but indeed, I saw the hands on the pic, and they looked Indian to me

    on the other hand, the pic with the horse skeletons suspiciously resembles a pic I've seen of a chariot and horse skeletons in a Chinese burial

    and the article claiming there were chariots in Mesopotamia 2000 BC doesn't help either, it's simply not true

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I search for moe info or photos
    but seems not enough,

    anyway most news say about 1800-2000 BC,
    if you have better news, i would like too.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    you have not viewed the video that I have attached? What Chinese people more brown! ;)

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    I just clicked on the link I provided. It works. Here it is again.

    https://www.indiatimes.com/news/indi...li-346843.html

    It's an article from an Indian newspaper, showing pictures of Indians examining what looks exactly like what was in the tweet. In this particular article there's no picture of a sword.

    @Berun,
    I know you don't like the steppe theory, but let's try to elevate the discussion above the level of the absurd, shall we? Unless the Indian archaeologists decided to send Indians, complete with saris, to China to take some pictures???

    READ IT and look at the pictures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I just clicked on the link I provided. It works. Here it is again.

    https://www.indiatimes.com/news/indi...li-346843.html

    It's an article from an Indian newspaper, showing pictures of Indians examining what looks exactly like what was in the tweet. In this particular article there's no picture of a sword.

    @Berun,
    I know you don't like the steppe theory, but let's try to elevate the discussion above the level of the absurd, shall we? Unless the Indian archaeologists decided to send Indians, complete with saris, to China to take some pictures???

    READ IT and look at the pictures.
    I've just been informed the link only works outside the EU. Sorry about that. You'll have to google for other links that show up. Or, you can take my word for it. :)

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    @Angela, calm down, I was amazed about the discussion if objects were Chinese, and I only suggested to check the video, it is quite clear it's all Indian and so I did a joke. You also say that I don't like the steppe theory and I don't know why such statements has any relation with that, what is worst I think IE came to India from the steppes, and even more worst, I don't like or dislike theories, what an unscientfic attitude, simply I don't believe in such theories. Please use respect with other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    @Angela, calm down, I was amazed about the discussion if objects were Chinese, and I only suggested to check the video, it is quite clear it's all Indian and so I did a joke. You also say that I don't like the steppe theory and I don't know why such statements has any relation with that, what is worst I think IE came to India from the steppes, and even more worst, I don't like or dislike theories, what an unscientfic attitude, simply I don't believe in such theories. Please use respect with other people.
    Sorry if I misjudged your intent, but most of the time I don't understand what point you're trying to make, and I certainly don't know when you're making a joke.

    If you'll try to make your points clearer, I'll try not to jump to conclusions about your posts.

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    The picures in the link in post #8 are from that site.

    The pictures in the Greek article in Yetos' post #10 should be from somewhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    The picures in the link in post #8 are from that site.

    The pictures in the Greek article in Yetos' post #10 should be from somewhere else.
    pics of post nr 10, I reckognize the horse skeletons from a burial in bronze/iron age China

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