No problem. First one is an ex footballer (his surname is specific of Rome area) second one is a journalist born in Florence but he speak with a roman accentAlso good ones.Hope you don't mind. For ease of viewing:
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Modern Italians who resemble busts from the classical era
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Angela
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I think that Mike Pompeo also looks quite Roman (a resemblance with Cicero). He is only half Italian on his father side (from Abruzzo).
There was some diversity of phenotypes among ancient Romans. Several nobles from the Late Republic or Early Empire have a distinctive type with a slightly triangular face and big eyes that is not common anywhere today, like these.
Marcus Junius Brutus the Younger
Emperor Augustus
Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus
Emperor Tiberius
Emperor Caligula
Emperor Claudius
Unknown bust
This type contrasts a lot with other Romans of the same period like Sulla, Pompey, Cicero, Seneca, Mark Antony, Agrippa, etc.
I agree about Pompeo. Despite being only 1/4 Italian, I think he has an Italian look. You never know with genes how it's going to go.
Here's a half-Italian who looks very Italian to me, and I think he even approximates the look you're talking about. The actor Bradley Cooper: half-Southern Italian/half Irish, a common combination.
_(cropped).jpg)
I think Alessandro del Piero also approximates it, although longer.
Lucia Bose:
At home in Italy(the Lunigiana) I always get a kick out of being waited on by this guy. When he's not squinting his eyes are pretty large, and he's got that big broad skull, triangular face thing going on too.
Funnily enough, there's a restaurant right down the street where this waiter works.
I think my young cousin (the boy), has a bit of that going on too, but not as much as the others.
I notice it more in girls, though. One of my young female cousins. If she were thinner I think you'd notice it more. Mouth is different, though.
I think they're much better looking than the Julio-Claudians, though.
A distant cousin, but same surname as my father.
A male distant cousin from my father's village:
That's my father's type. Maybe too long?
One for the other type, a distant cousin on my father's side (the man on the right).
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Pax Augusta
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The first one I think he has an Abruzzese surname, now more common in Lazio due to huge migrations from Abruzzo to Lazio.
The second one speaks with a Roman accent because he is from Rome, he has ever lived in Rome. According to Italian forums he is an AS Rome's supporter since he was a kid. He has common face in central Italy.
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I knew but i don't know if he moved to Rome when he was young, maybe he was born in Florence by roman parents
Di Livio i'm not sure, anyway it sound ancient roman... belonging or son of Livius. Some ancient roman surnames survived in the Early Middle Ages
While i disagree with Coon when he said that ancient Roman were "Nordics" i think that he was right when i wrote thar they had their own "type", probably due to endogamy. They were mixed but we closely related groups (geographically)..Sabines and Southern Etruscans
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Di Livio i'm not sure, anyway it sound ancient roman... belonging or son of Livius. Some ancient roman surnames survived in the Early Middle Ages
While i disagree with Coon when he said that ancient Roman were "Nordics" i think that he was right when i wrote thar they had their own "type", probably due to endogamy. They were mixed but we closely related groups (geographically)..Sabines and Southern Etruscans
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Johane Derite
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There was some diversity of phenotypes among ancient Romans. Several nobles from the Late Republic or Early Empire have a distinctive type with a slightly triangular face, protruding ears, big eyes and a medium-sized narrow nose that is not common anywhere today, like these.
Unknown bust
This type contrasts a lot with other Romans of the same period like Sulla, Pompey, Cicero, Seneca, Mark Antony, Agrippa, etc.
This is a good observation. This unknown bust is actually "Drusus Julius Caesar".
There are quite a bit more of this "type" here:
SOURCE: http://www.digitalsculpture.org/papers/pollini/pollini_paper.html
This is his profile btw:
Johane Derite
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I'm posting this here even though its in another thread because its hilarious. These reconstructions should not be taken
serious yet in my opinion..
LINK: https://www.hln.be/wetenschap-plane...erlijk-en-overwinningen-dan-gedacht~a3a43ca4/
serious yet in my opinion..
LINK: https://www.hln.be/wetenschap-plane...erlijk-en-overwinningen-dan-gedacht~a3a43ca4/
Pax Augusta
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In fact we are ignoring the reconstructions, and we are only observing the original Roman busts.
New Englander
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I think that Im pretty Roman looking, especially my Papa.
Angela
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I am copy/pasting my response to this silliness here because it's a more appropriate thread than one on Iceland.
However, as Pax says, all comparisons should be to actual busts or paintings from the time, not to "reconstructions" of damaged busts. Bottom line: that "reconstruction" doesn't even look like the busts upon which it is supposedly based. He's made to like an alien. Ignore.
"Northener,
Strange rejoinder to our discussion, but since you asked me...
@Members
I don't see why a reconstruction based on a single or even two damaged marble portrait busts (not, I would emphasize, his actual skull, but two busts she has chosen from among many) would be held to definitely portray his appearance, much less be grounds for speculation about his birth delivery etc.
Moreover, I don't think this anthropologist did a very good job even in reproducing a life like or even accurate image of the bust itself, whether or not the bust is representative of Giulio Cesare in the flesh. How could anyone think that "reproduction" looks anything like the portrait bust on which it's supposedly based?
The eyes are definitely not as closely set in the bust as they are in the reproduction, nor is the head so strangely shaped. I'd never guess it was based on these busts. It also took me about two to three minutes of close examination to see what could possibly be the "crazy bulge" on his head. (Some of you don't find a statement like that sensationalistic? What is it? Scientific?) Is she talking about the thing that looks like a fatty tumor or something that's on the left side of his forehead as you look at his face? I can't see anything else that looks like a "bulge" in the "reproduction", much less a "crazy" one.
She also seems to want her cake and to eat it too. The busts, and particularly the busts she's chosen, must be incredibly accurate, well, except for the hair, which must be fake. Why? Because they're the ugliest they must be the most accurate? (The ancient sources do say he was balding; perhaps he's the one who set the fashion for the "Caesar" cut. ) Even if he was balding, how does she know he wasn't totally bald, or to the contrary just had male pattern baldness and a comb "over" or "down". Why would she give him those silly wisps of hair? I also don't get the whole thing about he's stern or whatever she said, not smiling, as if that's a surprise. I'm quite familiar with Roman art and I can't remember a single one where a Roman statesman is smiling. It sounds as if at the least, before she set to work, she should have done a thorough review of Roman statuary.
Sorry, I don't think I'm being overly sensitive when I say it looks like what we call a "hatchet job". There's also a give away in having to bring it to my attention as well in what was presumably thought to be some sort of "gotcha" moment, although I don't quite know what this has to do with our prior discussion.
All of that said, I'm sure he was stern: he was a ruthless general and a ruthless politician. You don't rise to those heights otherwise. I would bet he also wasn't what they or we would call beautiful. The Julio-Claudians weren't a very attractive bunch, for one thing. No one in antiquity ever described him as such either. Plus, even given the cultural differences in modern versus ancient standards of attractiveness, I don't think any of the portrait busts depict male "beauty". They do depict intelligence, strength, even ruthlessness, but not beauty. I'm sure it was immaterial to him. It was power that interested the Julio-Claudians, not their own looks.
Indeed, it wasn't even good looks that necessarily interested them in their own relationships. Cleopatra, if the coins struck during her reign are accurate, was a singularly unattractive woman physically, as even the ancient sources hint by never once claiming she was beautiful. Fascinating, yes. Beautiful, no. The same could be said of him. The gossip of the time was that he was insatiable sexually, and never short of conquests, often of other men's wives, even when he was poor and struggling. Of course, when they were interested in beauty, they could buy it.
Here is the Turin bust, by the way. It's indeed an outlier in the way it depicts him. Does that make it more accurate?
This is the front view I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is the unevenness at the top what she means by the "crazy" bulge? Christ, good thing I have a lot of hair and she can't ever see my skull. I have a lot of bumps too.
Anyone have a picture of the Leiden bust?
I must say it seems Bicicleur isn't the only person from the Low Countries who still harbors a grudge from two thousand years ago.
We get it, you hate him. Do you have to make him look like and label him a freak of some kind? It smacks of how the Lancastrians described Richard III. I mean, I'm sure the Irish hate William of Orange too, and I'm not pleased with the invasions of Alaric, or the Lombards, or Charles V, or Barbarossa, or on and on. I could name dozens and dozens of invaders of Italy. It's not personal at this late date, however. Well, it's personal with Germans during WWII, but that's much closer to home. Honestly, guys, get a grip. If we had this kind of personal animosity for all our foreign invaders we'd hate every nation in Europe.
Btw, Giulio Cesare was handsome by comparison with some Roman statesmen. Whatever else, they had no vanity if they approved these busts.
Here's Cato the Elder. He was from a famous Plebeian family of soldiers, and possessor of a magnificent reputation as a soldier, statesman, and sage. My husband likes him: his stubbornness and determination to never give up until his enemies were ground into the dust, I think; I personally think he was a bore. I wouldn't put it past him to send a copy of this bust to the Carthaginians. That would give them nightmares and remind them that he meant what he said when he repeated over and over again: Carthage Must Be Destroyed.
Pompeo Magno was no beauty either, nor did he seem like a barrel of laughs, as can be seen above.
Some other, perhaps more objective "reconstructions" of portrait busts, and not by Italians to my knowledge, I might add.
[/IMG]
[
/IMG]
[/IMG]
However, as Pax says, all comparisons should be to actual busts or paintings from the time, not to "reconstructions" of damaged busts. Bottom line: that "reconstruction" doesn't even look like the busts upon which it is supposedly based. He's made to like an alien. Ignore.
"Northener,
Strange rejoinder to our discussion, but since you asked me...
@Members
I don't see why a reconstruction based on a single or even two damaged marble portrait busts (not, I would emphasize, his actual skull, but two busts she has chosen from among many) would be held to definitely portray his appearance, much less be grounds for speculation about his birth delivery etc.
Moreover, I don't think this anthropologist did a very good job even in reproducing a life like or even accurate image of the bust itself, whether or not the bust is representative of Giulio Cesare in the flesh. How could anyone think that "reproduction" looks anything like the portrait bust on which it's supposedly based?
The eyes are definitely not as closely set in the bust as they are in the reproduction, nor is the head so strangely shaped. I'd never guess it was based on these busts. It also took me about two to three minutes of close examination to see what could possibly be the "crazy bulge" on his head. (Some of you don't find a statement like that sensationalistic? What is it? Scientific?) Is she talking about the thing that looks like a fatty tumor or something that's on the left side of his forehead as you look at his face? I can't see anything else that looks like a "bulge" in the "reproduction", much less a "crazy" one.
She also seems to want her cake and to eat it too. The busts, and particularly the busts she's chosen, must be incredibly accurate, well, except for the hair, which must be fake.
Why? Because they're the ugliest they must be the most accurate? (The ancient sources do say he was balding; perhaps he's the one who set the fashion for the "Caesar" cut. ) Even if he was balding, how does she know he wasn't totally bald, or to the contrary just had male pattern baldness and a comb "over" or "down". Why would she give him those silly wisps of hair? I also don't get the whole thing about he's stern or whatever she said, not smiling, as if that's a surprise. I'm quite familiar with Roman art and I can't remember a single one where a Roman statesman is smiling. It sounds as if at the least, before she set to work, she should have done a thorough review of Roman statuary. Sorry, I don't think I'm being overly sensitive when I say it looks like what we call a "hatchet job". There's also a give away in having to bring it to my attention as well in what was presumably thought to be some sort of "gotcha" moment, although I don't quite know what this has to do with our prior discussion.
All of that said, I'm sure he was stern: he was a ruthless general and a ruthless politician. You don't rise to those heights otherwise. I would bet he also wasn't what they or we would call beautiful. The Julio-Claudians weren't a very attractive bunch, for one thing. No one in antiquity ever described him as such either. Plus, even given the cultural differences in modern versus ancient standards of attractiveness, I don't think any of the portrait busts depict male "beauty". They do depict intelligence, strength, even ruthlessness, but not beauty. I'm sure it was immaterial to him. It was power that interested the Julio-Claudians, not their own looks.
Indeed, it wasn't even good looks that necessarily interested them in their own relationships. Cleopatra, if the coins struck during her reign are accurate, was a singularly unattractive woman physically, as even the ancient sources hint by never once claiming she was beautiful. Fascinating, yes. Beautiful, no. The same could be said of him. The gossip of the time was that he was insatiable sexually, and never short of conquests, often of other men's wives, even when he was poor and struggling. Of course, when they were interested in beauty, they could buy it.
Here is the Turin bust, by the way. It's indeed an outlier in the way it depicts him. Does that make it more accurate?
This is the front view I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is the unevenness at the top what she means by the "crazy" bulge? Christ, good thing I have a lot of hair and she can't ever see my skull. I have a lot of bumps too.
Anyone have a picture of the Leiden bust?
I must say it seems Bicicleur isn't the only person from the Low Countries who still harbors a grudge from two thousand years ago.
We get it, you hate him. Do you have to make him look like and label him a freak of some kind? It smacks of how the Lancastrians described Richard III. I mean, I'm sure the Irish hate William of Orange too, and I'm not pleased with the invasions of Alaric, or the Lombards, or Charles V, or Barbarossa, or on and on. I could name dozens and dozens of invaders of Italy. It's not personal at this late date, however. Well, it's personal with Germans during WWII, but that's much closer to home. Honestly, guys, get a grip. If we had this kind of personal animosity for all our foreign invaders we'd hate every nation in Europe.
Btw, Giulio Cesare was handsome by comparison with some Roman statesmen. Whatever else, they had no vanity if they approved these busts.
Here's Cato the Elder. He was from a famous Plebeian family of soldiers, and possessor of a magnificent reputation as a soldier, statesman, and sage. My husband likes him: his stubbornness and determination to never give up until his enemies were ground into the dust, I think; I personally think he was a bore.
I wouldn't put it past him to send a copy of this bust to the Carthaginians. That would give them nightmares and remind them that he meant what he said when he repeated over and over again: Carthage Must Be Destroyed.
Pompeo Magno was no beauty either, nor did he seem like a barrel of laughs, as can be seen above.
Some other, perhaps more objective "reconstructions" of portrait busts, and not by Italians to my knowledge, I might add.
/IMG]
Caligula
Two singers in folk music group I Girasoli, especially the guy to the left:
A waiter from my mother's home town, not related to the singers.
Except for the ears I fail to see the resemblance.
Angela
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Really? I'm surprised. I see the same triangular face shape, the very broad skull, the pointed chin, the thin lipped small mouth. The nose is different. I guess I should have posted better pictures.
Also, we're not going to get clones, but I thought it was the same general type.
The quality of the reconstruction is good (hair, skin) but i don't understand why they did that extraterrestrial head and the eyes are too close to each others.
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It's especially the nose and the eyes (and eyebrows) that differ, but that alone changes a lot a person's appearance.
Jovialis
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The Ludovisi Battle Sarcophagus. It really is an amazing piece of art, considering the level of detail.
Here's a link for better resolution: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Grande_Ludovisi_Altemps_Inv8574.jpg
This is a depiction of a battle between Romans and Goths. I think the Romans here certainly resemble many Italians today, and look markedly different from the Goths.
It is also where my avatar comes from; see the top left-corner.
davef
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He looks like a space vampire
I saw these pictures of an Italian girl (Caterina Ravaglia)in IronSide's ultimate classification thread and was amazed by how her similar she looks to the Julio-Claudian. That's exactly the same type. She was born in Ravenna and her surname is typical of Emilia-Romagna. I think that may be how the original Italic tribes looked at the time of the Roman Republic.
In this picture she has a more classical look, as I would imagine a vestal priestess.
She looks particularly beautiful in that one, although the Julio-Claudian features I wanted to highlight are less apparent.
In this picture she has a more classical look, as I would imagine a vestal priestess.
She looks particularly beautiful in that one, although the Julio-Claudian features I wanted to highlight are less apparent.
Pax Augusta
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Maciamo, don't you see any resemblance with the Italian girl (Caterina Ravaglia)? It's a terracotta portrait (200-150 BC).
Angela
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I do see a resemblance to the Julio-Claudians, but it's clear from the ancient writers that they were not all light haired and light eyed. Julius Caesar is described as being "black-eyed" for example. The fair coloring described was, I think, perhaps from the Claudian line, not the gens Julia. I would say the same for the facial structure. The Julia gens seems a bit different.
Members of the ancient gens of Rome did not all have that collection of features, thank goodness for them.
Claudius:
Also, just to be precise, the Claudians were originally of Sabine origin.
The gens Cornelia was probably also on the fair side if Sulla was typical of his line, as he was famously "golden" haired. The features are quite different, however.
Scipio Africanus was also a member of the gens Cornelia. They really had enormous heads. That trait didn't die out, i.e. Mussolini (Emilia Romagna) and Luca Zingaretti (Lazio).
Luca Zingaretti:
Members of the ancient gens of Rome did not all have that collection of features, thank goodness for them.
Claudius:
Also, just to be precise, the Claudians were originally of Sabine origin.
The gens Cornelia was probably also on the fair side if Sulla was typical of his line, as he was famously "golden" haired. The features are quite different, however.
Scipio Africanus was also a member of the gens Cornelia. They really had enormous heads. That trait didn't die out, i.e. Mussolini (Emilia Romagna) and Luca Zingaretti (Lazio).
Luca Zingaretti:
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