When people elect their own dictator

@Etrusco... I am not a lawyer, but was educated and worked as a paralegal... in the United States, there is a thing in law "fruit of the poisonous tree" here's a link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree... the "evidence" is being disproven as a political tactic by the Democratic machine. Those people that have "confessed" did so most probably to protect their families... their forced confessions will also be voided. This is a tactic that I have seen the Dems use in local elections too. Destroy the image of your candidate, even if what you are saying is a blatant lie. Once the lie is out in news, the opponent loses.
 
Angela said:
@Etrusco,

I'm baffled. You didn't like that I posted an article about Erdogan's re-election with sweeping powers, or you didn't like my categorization of it as giving him dictatorial powers?

Gosh. I thought only Turks supported him, and only 53% of them, I might add.

Do you really not believe that Turks will have fewer civil rights that people in western representative democracies, including the U.S. ? Could you provide some concrete examples?
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I'm not denying he's a dictator I only warned everybody about the fact that in our western world we are facing the risk of a more subtle invisible kind of totalitarianism. Like the one that is pushed forward by a bunch of families that own a big stake of world wealth, that control the media, the financial system and that are eroding every kind of values on which our civilization has been built. Destruction of family values ( abortion, divorce, gay marriage ) euthanasia. An economic system that is destroying the middle class ( which is the backbone of every democratic system) financial markets out of control with politicians that have to obey to the " markets" otherwise they must resign ( maybe in the USA you do not feel this problem as much as we do in Europe where regardless who win an election the agenda must be that of the big banks and big business). So the real distance between Turkey and western style oligarchy is not that much. Only because people are starting to open their eyes in recent time globalist have had their defeats.
 
Wheal said:
@Etrusco... I am not a lawyer, but was educated and worked as a paralegal... in the United States, there is a thing in law "fruit of the poisonous tree" here's a link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree... the "evidence" is being disproven as a political tactic by the Democratic machine. Those people that have "confessed" did so most probably to protect their families... their forced confessions will also be voided. This is a tactic that I have seen the Dems use in local elections too. Destroy the image of your candidate, even if what you are saying is a blatant lie. Once the lie is out in news, the opponent loses.
Click to expand...

Completely agree with you on everything. But I think Muller and his cronies are not that dumb. They will start with some "real" crime that as I said is not difficult to find in Trump business history ( bribes to the mob, tax evasion stuff like that) and then with the help of the fake news complex they will spin it as it looks like an unforgivable crime. Then Trump that sometimes acts like he's crazy will fire Muller and will fall into the "perfect trap".....
 
@Etrusco
Mueller is conflicted.
Mueller is Compromised.
Mueller’s team is all Democrat.
Mueller traveled with U.S. Uranium to Russia.
Mueller was given his position after Trump interviewed him for FBI Director and was rejected.
Mueller aggressive tactics are being questioned for abuse.
“America First” will continue, with or without Trump.
Trumpism won’t go away regardless.
Anche Noi Abbiamo Eletto Trump, e siamo Potenti, Numerosi, e Incazzati.

jWfK4zw.jpg
 
Gentlemen (I exempt the lady since she probably knows this), Presidents of the U.S. are immune from prosecution for "ordinary" crimes during their tenure. That also wasn't his brief.

Impeachment is another thing. However, so far I don't see anything rising to that level.
 
hm

Everyone of us learned at elementary school the word Democracy
some of us living in Europe also know the term Presidential, parliamental, constitutional monarchy, even people's republic (ex-communistic)

later at high school we learned one term that was vital for democracy OSTRACISM EΞΟΣΤΡΑΚΙΣΜΟΣ

most of our democracies, are not democracies, but time limited constitunional monarchies

since NO OSTRACISM, then NO DEMOCRACY.




 
Yetos said:
hm

Everyone of us learned at elementary school the word Democracy
some of us living in Europe also know the term Presidential, parliamental, constitutional monarchy, even people's republic (ex-communistic)

later at high school we learned one term that was vital for democracy OSTRACISM EΞΟΣΤΡΑΚΙΣΜΟΣ

most of our democracies, are not democracies, but time limited constitunional monarchies

since NO OSTRACISM, then NO DEMOCRACY.
Click to expand...

In a mainstream form of Government, a Political Opponent is not an Enemy. Or at least shouldn’t be.
Win or lose we should respect and tolerate each-other.
It’s tempting to retaliate when the losers are the one trying to Ostracize the winners. Here is the latest message from Trump to his supporters pointing out just that: the losers ostracizing the winners. Win or lose Ostracism is wrong imho. :)

.......... “Harassment
...........,
Sarah Huckabee Sanders was kicked out of a restaurant.

Kirstjen Nielsen was harassed in her own home.

Homeland Security staffers have been warned of “increased threats” from the open borders mob.

...And now Democrat Maxine Waters is calling for MORE HARASSMENT of the Silent Majority. The Left is trying to bully and buy their way back into power. Not on my watch. I will always stand up for you.” ........


IMG_9114.jpg
 
both Athens and Sparta had their own democracies,

both had Ostracism or Apelasis

that is why their democracies stayed strong even when the state lost wars fortune or occupied,

the power of ostracism to Rome was given to the monarch
if was given to people, then Rome might not had an inner collapse.

ostracism is also a tool by the ruler,

it is the last and ultimate weapon of the people,
so not the ruller to become tyrrant.

let a modern European democracy the ability to ostracism,
1-5 times per year according their parliamental members, for 2-10 years,
then less decadense, corruption etc etc.

he was a democracy master,
he also was politicain,
he stayed in History,
cause he knew the meaning of ostracism.

image0000198A.jpg



the evidence

220px-AGMA_Ostrakon_Aristide.jpg




it is time to ostracism golden boys, and fortune hunters from our political lifes,

either our democracies, will suffer an inner collapse.
 
@Yetos I’m Ok with Term Limits.
I’m Not OK for Banishment and Deportation of the opposition.
If I misunderstood “Apelasis” disregard my second paragraph. :)
 
When people stop touch other countries works? when people don't touch and invade iraq, vietnam, syria for democracy lies. this is better problems than dictators.

i am an atheist and living peaceful and good in turkey.

nobody wanna touch me and kill me.

erdogan doing good stuff about democracy.

before years kurdish people not speaking their own language. but today they can.

before years girls dont take hijab in university. but today they can.

only i dont accept block for wikipedia or something.

erdoğan and akp doing all of this stuff. but europe/usa dont wanna see this.

they only think about his own interests.

middle eastern only a oil/money area for them.

they dont care anything humanity or democracy for us i think. (we know them what they did in history lol)

if you real care about people, help that all innocent peoples help africa, help native americans (they living so bad in america, and mr trump create a wall for their descendants now.) and help middle easterns and take more and more refugees from syria.

we open the door all of them.

i think we are more democratic and humanist for the world.

dont believe the propaganda of sionists/imperialist
 
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Mustafa-Kemal-Ataturk-Quotes-4.jpg


oppression.jpg


Some people break out of their chains. Some people embrace them.
 
Short and sweet...Trump was elected as a Populist... neither mainstream “Republicans” nor Democrats nor Socialists supported him. As a lifelong “Republican” I see folks like McCain & Bush as Republican in Name Only. In other words mainstream politicians are like worms in DC, difficult to separate and put on the hook! Trump speaks plainly to issues that matter to the middle class (now that is a topic for another thread-just who is the American Middle Class?) and does what he says he will do...what a novel concept!!!
 
Salento said:
@Yetos I’m Ok with Term Limits.
I’m Not OK for Banishment and Deportation of the opposition.
If I misunderstood “Apelasis” disregard my second paragraph. :)
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Ostracism happened limited times per year,

in light form was just forbiden to talk and take part to κοινα to commons, consider forbid to take part in political life for 2-4 years,
in the hard form it is exile, or a narrow acces area, guarded but not prisoned, for time from 2 years to at least 1 presidential or parliamental time,
different degrees to a number according the population, or parliament etc etc

people should choose from a common list,
and not by different lists,
it is usefull when the elected goverment thinks, or tries to 'cross the Rubicon' of descent political life.

do not warry,
the idea is an idea,

at Turkey Demirtas party was elected although he was in prison,
and above the very 'tall' step of 10% which leads to parliament.

We vote the ideas and the 'healthy minds' and what is correct by our opininion for us and state,
not the persons,
On contradictory we must 'punish' the persons who pass the meter,
or ambush the state, or earn by politics when state is driven to pay.
as demagogues, preverts, money vultures, etc.

without Ostracism, most democracies are doomed.

Rome started as Sparta. Glory to the defender, and equal rights to Romans. Senatum
but there were eras that a politician earn more than the whole state,
so he could buy votes by a bucket of grain.
that led to absolute monarchy,
no one must earn more than emperror,
or the one who gains most becomes emperror

Salento think,
the latest episode after the Italian elections,
Should someone lost his powers and replaced, or Not?

Giving Ostracism to the people,
we give true power to the people.
 
Erdogan tells Turks what they want to hear, appealing to their Islamist and Europhobic tendencies (almost ubiquitous outside of a few Western Turkish cities).

Frankly I'm surprised it was as little as 53%.
 
XipeTotek said:
they are kurdish tribes(aşiret). one man can voted for all own tribe members.(clan)

its absurd but yes
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what?

I have seen such videos in 3 areas,

a man can vote for another man?
also a man can vote as woman?

What kind of election is this?

I vote so many times, as my clan members?

come on,

not even in medieval or primitive tribes
you want me to believe that in Turkey of 2020,
one man can vote more than one time?

AND WHAT THE VOTE IS OPEN? AND NOT BEHIND THE CURTAIN?
VOTE IS PERSONAL AND BEHIND THE CURTAIN.
WHY IN THE VIDEOS IS OPEN?

to be honest,
I believe Erdogan is the winner,
he surely has above 40%
but his 53% is biased and cheating.
the most possible is to have with his coalition around 47-48%
 
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Yetos said:
what?

I have seen such videos in 3 areas,

a man can vote for another man?
also a man can vote as woman?

What kind of election is this?

I vote so many times, as my clan members?

come on,

not even in medieval or primitive tribes
you want me to believe that in Turkey of 2020,
one man can vote more than one time?

AND WHAT THE VOTE IS OPEN? AND NOT BEHIND THE CURTAIN?
VOTE IS PERSONAL AND BEHIND THE CURTAIN.
WHY IN THE VIDEOS IS OPEN?

to be honest,
I believe Erdogan is the winner,
he surely has above 40%
but his 53% is biased and cheating.
the most possible is to have with his coalition around 47-48%
Click to expand...

Erdogan's party took 42% for parliment election
53% result of his election coalition for presidency with MHP(which got 11% for parliment, but not have candicate for president).

AGIT has already gave own report and there is nothing. These are tiny problems.

Many problem was during the election camping. Erdogan used all state power.
State TV worked for Erdogan also there is no mainstream media, now.
 
Yetos said:
what?

I have seen such videos in 3 areas,

a man can vote for another man?
also a man can vote as woman?

What kind of election is this?

I vote so many times, as my clan members?

come on,

not even in medieval or primitive tribes
you want me to believe that in Turkey of 2020,
one man can vote more than one time?

AND WHAT THE VOTE IS OPEN? AND NOT BEHIND THE CURTAIN?
VOTE IS PERSONAL AND BEHIND THE CURTAIN.
WHY IN THE VIDEOS IS OPEN?

to be honest,
I believe Erdogan is the winner,
he surely has above 40%
but his 53% is biased and cheating.
the most possible is to have with his coalition around 47-48%
Click to expand...

thats all could be fake. i dont know. because some people using like this events in turkey for the chaos

they can doing this after record ourselfs like this.

but for this video this is look like a tribes voted for me
 
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