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Thread: Viking runes reading with Turkic language?

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    Viking runes reading with Turkic language?



    i see a some new on turkish news site.

    one man learn gokturk alphabet, and after can read viking runes.

    Some texts which are thought to belong to the vikings in Sweden but which can not be analyzed by runik were completely used by an amateur citizen in a very meaningful way and they were read very clearly even today's Turkish. he get academic support. he translate gokturk alphabet/ancient turkic to today turkish/english

    http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/kelebek/c...-okudu-5463960


    http://www.s155239215.onlinehome.us/...eFutharkRu.htm


    http://www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/futhp3t.htm


    http://www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/futhp4t.htm


    http://www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/futhp5t.htm

    futhark6.gif
    Transliteration
    gü tü s o k up o d y go n si ka öt a ç nç ok ök id y n i si ke l bi
    Transliteration right-to left:
    bilke is inydi ök oknça öt akisn goydo pu kosütüg
    Dictionary
    bilke - wise man, sage; one of wisdom
    is - light; light of wisdom, knowledge
    inydi - arrived / descended (from the sky)
    ök - himself, his own self
    oknça - with the (pointed) tip
    öt - to speak (as the birds chirp)
    aksin - through his mouth (the words he uttered)
    goydo - he put (by carving); he carved
    pu - this
    kosütüg - column; erected slab of stone


    Translation from ancient Türkish to today's English:
    The light of wisdom arrived/descended, he himself carved onto this erect stone, with ( the pointed tip of ) his arrow/dagger, the words he uttered/spoke through his own mouth.
    Möjbro stone

    Under inscription is a carving of a rider on a horse, holding a round shield in his left hand while brandishing a weapon in his right. Two dogs run beside the horse.

    IR16.GIFfuthark7.jpg



    Transcription of the inscription and comparison with Orkhon Göktürk equivalent:


    Transliteration

    ic k ni s de ke p ü s kö g kö g ke ni ki ic k ke l ke op ki y ke op g

    Transliteration right-to left:

    gopek yik op ke kelkic ikin ekgök göksüpek desinkic

    Dictionary

    gopek - dog
    yik - well
    op ke - to attack; to charge
    kelkic - undertake (or) achieve
    ikin - both; both of them
    ekgök - mother-sky: a sacred sky-spirit; mother nature (or) goddess of sky;
    göksüpek - bold; brave (or) courageous
    desinkiç - to say, to state; to acknowledge


    Translation from ancient Türkish to today's English:

    (May both of) the dog(s) charge well; so that the sacred sky-spirit acknowledges their boldness..

    Istaby stone


    Istaby stone from Blekinge was carved in a transitional period between the Primitive Norse period and Viking Age.

    Istaby stone from Blekinge.
    Photo from Prof. Sven B.F. Jansson "Runes in Sweden".

    futhark9.jpg




    Publication
    Jansson, Prof. Sven B.F., Runes in Sweden; translated by Peter Foote, Gidlunds, Varnamo, Sweden 1987. (English edition of Runinskrifter i Sverige, AWE/Gebers 1963).

    Readings

    Turgay Kurum, Mystery Of The Futhark Alphabet, http://www.turcoman.btinternet.co.uk...-contents1.htm

    of the inscription

    Not given

    Comparison with Orkhon Göktürk equivalent:

    Not given

    Transliteration

    g r s o t ya t i ki g iç go r id up t ya t i ki g sü iç r gü k ko iç gu r up s ya t i ki g kö

    Transliteration right-to left:

    ök gikit yaspurgu içok güriç sü gikit yatpudir goiç gikit yatsorg

    Dictionary
    ök - he, his own self
    gikit - brave
    yaspurgu - lived
    içok - much, many
    güriç - forte; force(ful); hard(ship)
    sü - army, soldiers
    yatpudir - committed not
    goiç - flight; migration
    yatsorg - lies (herein)

    Translation from ancient Türkish to today's English:
    he (who was) brave (and) lived through many hardships (of) army, committed not flight (or did not desert his post of duty) lies herein..

    IR5 (3).GIF

    bilke ış inydi ök oknça öt akisn goydo pu kosütüg


    23. The symbol is present in the Tonyukuk inscription exactly as in the Futhark alphabet (see Prof. Engin's book, page 149). It is used in the book to mean 'head'. We use Kelle = Kel, which is synonymous with Head. The two letters merged and formed a word.


    The two letters combined to form a meaningful word are also seen in the 13th symbol. It is also remarkable that it takes the shape of the mouth of the symbol.


    Let's read right to left according to the reading rules of Göktürkish

    bilke : wise, knowledgeable person (absolute mind-absolute consciousness)
    ış : ışık (wise light = informational light, angel - god ambassador)
    inydi : indi (down from sky)
    ök : bizzat kendisi , (himself)
    okunça : ok unun ucuyla (with front of the arrow )
    öt : ötmek konuşmak (whistle, talking)
    akisn : ağızın ( öt akisn = words from him mouth )
    goydo : oydu - ( put it )
    pu : (this)
    kosütüg : ok sütun (vertical stone)

    Let's read today's Turkish.


    The light of wisdom has come down to itself,


    We will not make this philosophical interpretation here.


    But we take your attention to that point. 24, 23, 22. symbols, from right to left (in Scandinavian language), the word O d ng is the starting point of the Odin word of the Viking god. We read these three symbols in Turkish as the Wise Light (sacrament of the god-ambassador). Contact us for extensive information.
    .
    i don't know this is true or not. just searching about this.
    Last edited by XipeTotek; 28-06-18 at 10:52.

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    6 out of 6 members found this post helpful.
    This topic of the Old Turkic script being related with Nordic runes - or even Nordic runes are supposedly readable as Turkic - is an urban legend that refuses to die.

    First:
    - the Runes are the older writing system, descended from the Etruscan alphabet (or variants of the Etruscan alphabet used by the people in the Alps, such as the Raetians and Adriatic Veneti), possibly with influence from the Latin alphabet. The oldest Runic inscriptions are attested from circa 100-200 AD from Denmark and northern Germany.
    - The Old Turkic script originated in Central Asia in circa 700 AD, and while the Runes are an alphabet (with letters for vowels and consonants), the Old Turkic script is something akin to a syllabary: it uses different signs for back vowels (for example a, o, u and dotless ı in Turkish) and front vowels (for example e, ö, ü, i in Turkish) to express the typical vowel harmony used the Turkic languages. The most likely origin for the Old Turkic script is the Kharosthi script of ancient Afghanistan, which uses similarly "syllabic" signs to Old Turkic but to express aspirated/unaspirated consonants.

    - like Runes, Old Turkic was carved into hard materials (like wood, rock or metal) and you had mostly angular shapes as a result, because these are most easiest to carve into the material. Because of the latter, the two unrelated scripts have some similar shapes, and you could "read" an Old Turkic 'meaning' out of some Runic words, but it's gibberish that makes no sense. The encoded language of Runic inscriptions is either Proto-Germanic (earlier) or (later) Old Norse.

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    0 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    This topic of the Old Turkic script being related with Nordic runes - or even Nordic runes are supposedly readable as Turkic - is an urban legend that refuses to die.

    First:
    - the Runes are the older writing system, descended from the Etruscan alphabet (or variants of the Etruscan alphabet used by the people in the Alps, such as the Raetians and Adriatic Veneti), possibly with influence from the Latin alphabet. The oldest Runic inscriptions are attested from circa 100-200 AD from Denmark and northern Germany.
    - The Old Turkic script originated in Central Asia in circa 700 AD, and while the Runes are an alphabet (with letters for vowels and consonants), the Old Turkic script is something akin to a syllabary: it uses different signs for back vowels (for example a, o, u and dotless ı in Turkish) and front vowels (for example e, ö, ü, i in Turkish) to express the typical vowel harmony used the Turkic languages. The most likely origin for the Old Turkic script is the Kharosthi script of ancient Afghanistan, which uses similarly "syllabic" signs to Old Turkic but to express aspirated/unaspirated consonants.

    - like Runes, Old Turkic was carved into hard materials (like wood, rock or metal) and you had mostly angular shapes as a result, because these are most easiest to carve into the material. Because of the latter, the two unrelated scripts have some similar shapes, and you could "read" an Old Turkic 'meaning' out of some Runic words, but it's gibberish that makes no sense. The encoded language of Runic inscriptions is either Proto-Germanic (earlier) or (later) Old Norse.
    also we found some connection turkic people and etruscans. they have romulus story in mythology same with turkic old mythology

    Attachment 10295

    and he can read etruscan runes too.

    that all scandinavian turkic related story begining with scandinavian mythology. oden and their asian tribes come from tyrkland. and first iceland king name is yngve turkakonung (kings of turks).

    also in central asian turkic runes and viking runes looking so similar.

    and this main stones reading with turkic language you can search about it this is not a lie or urban legend.

    The Futhark alphabet was used by the North European Germanic peoples (the Swedish, Norwegian and Danish) between the 3rd and 17th centuries A.D. About 3500 stone monuments in Europe, concentrated mostly in Sweden and Norway, are claimed to have been inscribed with this writing.
    The purpose of this article is to draw the readers' attention to the fact that this Futhark alphabet, which is also called the Runic (1) stemmed from the very same origin as did the ancient Turkish (2) inscriptions withGokturk (3) alphabet.The article is concerned solely with reading the alphabet known as "the primitive futhark", found inscribed on a rock in Kylver on Gotland Island, Sweden, in addition to the other two stone monuments, namely the Mojbro stone in Uppland, and the Istaby stone in Blekinge, with their photographs available, and which are considered to belong to the group classified as the oldest runic inscriptions, by matching their characters with those in the Gokturk inscriptions, and thus being able to decipher them in Turkish. Further ideas, interpretations and opinions in relation to this particular subject shall not be treated within this article. I suggest that more interested readers should get in touch with us directly.
    I would like to emphasize the point that I am not advocating any claim on these texts being written in the Gokturk script or vice versa. My claim is that the alphabets of these monuments found in both Europe and the Central Asia have stemmed from a common origin in a very remote past. Then, it was only a natural development for the Turkish, and the Germanic tribes that, although in locations so far away from each other, they could seperately carry on with this heritage of writing. I hold the belief that I have been able to prove the claim summarized above by reading the monuments written in Futhark alphabet, or the Oldest Runic, in Turkish through the help of the Gokturk alphabet. The result submitted to your reading here is just a small part of a greater research that has been going on for the past several years (4).

    source : http://www.antalyaonline.net/futhark/

    also he can read from 5.500 years ago a indus valley script with turkish

    source :
    https://onturk.org/2011/05/17/5500-yillik-runik-yazili-comlek-parcasi-ve-bir-turkce-okuma-teklifi/

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I don't know why certain parts of certain populations are so eager to believe conspiracy theories and theories that make their race or countries appear more glorious than they are. For example from my country, certain web sites keep repeating the myth that Ancient Greek signs and artifacts were found in the Amazon jungle or Connecticut, USA. No matter how many times I present evidence that they are totally false, they persist as urban myths. So it seems the Turks are not immune to this. Be proud of your nation as it is not as these myth mongers want it to be.

    As far as Etruscans are concerned there have been theories that they were descendants of Ancient Troy. Unfortunately, Ancient Etruscans wrote on cloth which did not survive very well through the centuries. Most likely they were an autochthonous civilization descended from the early Neolithic farmers.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 27-06-18 at 16:55.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I don't know why certain parts of certain populations are so eager to believe conspiracy theories and theories that make their race or countries appear more glorious than they are. For example from my country, certain web sites keep repeating the myth that Ancient Greek signs and artifacts were found in the Amazon jungle or Connecticut, USA. No matter how many times I present evidence that they are totally false, they persist as urban myths. So it seems the Turks are not immune to this. Be proud of your nation as it is not as these myth mongers want it to be.

    As far as Etruscans are concerned there have been theories that they were descendants of Ancient Troy. Unfortunately, Ancient Etruscans wrote on cloth which did not survive very well through the centuries. Most likely they were an autochthonous civilization descended from the early Neolithic farmers.
    so? we wanna know origins and connections of our peoples. every nation and peoples doing this not only turks. you say that. this is normal. and we found connections with native americans, etruscans, sumerians, and scandanivia. someones mythologic similarity, language similarity and genetic. we dont say anything if impossible. we see some connection all of them. if we dont see any connection not search about that

    i dont say thats all true or not. but you say its legend, fairytale, impossible. you did search about it? no.

    this is not sensible for me

    and this theory not come from turks. sweden historian sven lagerbring search about this connection.

    also i dont say i believe this theory or not. but my mind open for all possibles of the earth

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    As I said before, the product is gibberish. Also the author of that link uses modern (Anatolian!) Turkish which doesn't make any sense. Even then it doesn't really make sense (for example, above it reads "gobek" = dog, it should be "köpek").

    There are two major branches of the Turkic language family: the Lir-Turkic languages and the Shaz-Turkic languages. Now Anatolian Turkish is part of the larger branch of the two, Shaz-Turkic, while the earliest Turkic-speaking peoples to arrive in Europe (Pannonian Avars, Bulgars, Khazars) all spoke Lir-Turkic languages. Even then the first speakers of Turkic languages (again Lir-Tukic!) arrived around 200-300 years after the earliest Runic script is attested from Denmark and northern Germany. One further point to consider is that the Old Turkic language of Central Asia is not the same as Proto-Turkic, although it was also of the Shaz-branch like Anatolian Turkish.

    Bringing in the Etruscans makes things even crazier, since the Etruscan alphabet is around 800 years older than Runic and derives from the Greek alphabet in the Mediterranean. There's no reason to believe that the speakers of Turkic were anywhere else but in Central Asia around the year 700 BC.

    Like I said before, the most probable origin of the Old Turkic script is the Kharosthi script of ancient Afghanistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    As I said before, the product is gibberish. Also the author of that link uses modern (Anatolian!) Turkish which doesn't make any sense. Even then it doesn't really make sense (for example, above it reads "gobek" = dog, it should be "köpek").
    There are two major branches of the Turkic language family: the Lir-Turkic languages and the Shaz-Turkic languages. Now Anatolian Turkish is part of the larger branch of the two, Shaz-Turkic, while the earliest Turkic-speaking peoples to arrive in Europe (Pannonian Avars, Bulgars, Khazars) all spoke Lir-Turkic languages. Even then the first speakers of Turkic languages (again Lir-Tukic!) arrived around 200-300 years after the earliest Runic script is attested from Denmark and northern Germany. One further point to consider is that the Old Turkic language of Central Asia is not the same as Proto-Turkic, although it was also of the Shaz-branch like Anatolian Turkish.
    Bringing in the Etruscans makes things even crazier, since the Etruscan alphabet is around 800 years older than Runic and derives from the Greek alphabet in the Mediterranean. There's no reason to believe that the speakers of Turkic were anywhere else but in Central Asia around the year 700 BC.
    Like I said before, the most probable origin of the Old Turkic script is the Kharosthi script of ancient Afghanistan.
    so how he can read sweden viking runes? and this is not modern turkish. he translate with ancient gokturk/turkish to modern turkish/english. also we dont say viking runes come from gokturk. we say some viking runes of sweden, etruscan, can read with ancient turkic language. and swedens can not read this stones/scripts. this is not theory or legend this is reality. if you can read this mysterious and cant readable stones/scripts another language come and say me. but you cant because that stones/scripts clearly reading with old turkic language so meaningly.
    Last edited by XipeTotek; 28-06-18 at 14:08.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by XipeTotek View Post
    so how he can read sweden viking runes? and this is not modern turkish. he translate with ancient gokturk/turkish to modern turkish/english. also we dont say viking runes come from gokturk. we say some viking runes of sweden, etruscan, can read with ancient turkic language. and swedens can not read this stones/scripts. this is not theory or legend this is reality. if you can read this mysterious and cant readable stones/scripts another language come and say me. but you cant because that stones/scripts clearly reading with old turkic! language so meaningly.
    That author is fooling himself by wishful make-belief. He reads a gibberish that looks like Turkic from the runestone because he wants it to be Turkic. The Möjbro stone, at the upper left, you can read Runic "SLAGINAZ" (written right-to-left), which is Proto-Germanic for 'beaten' (cognate with English "slayed" or German "geschlagen". As I said, the language is either Proto-Germanic (in the older inscriptions) or Old Norse (in the younger inscriptions). No controversy here and there certainly is nothing "mysterious".

    And no Old Turkic here, either. Also I should remind you that the Möjbro stone is around 300 years older (it dates from circa 400 AD) than the Old Turkic inscriptions from the Orkhon Valley in Mongolia (circa 700 AD). There shouldn't be any Shaz-Turkic-speaking people anywhere near Europe in that time frame.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tone_U_877.jpg

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    OMG. A wild thread. Im Danish, I have learned to read runes in history classes when I was 12 years old or something, we found it interesting, and used runes for secret messages, such as love letters. Runes is not a language, its an alphabet of mostly konsonants, made with straight lines, so they can easily be carved into wood or stone, and runes are actually a copy of some older, southern or more widespread alphabeth. In my eyes it resembles the Greek alphabet much. However, when I see a rune inscription, I can translate, or understand ½ of it with my modern Danish tongue. Hlewgastir RuniR Thawido = "Lægæst lavede runerne". Easy peasy. Forget the runes, they are just an adaptation of an alphabet to a wood carving culture with no paper. Its much more interesting to study the hieroglyps of the Nordic Bronze age.

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