MyHeritage DNA Balkans category refers to the dinaric / epirotic race?

Well I have yet to see how the Aromanians, Epirotans or Albanians for that matter are autochthonous and the Macedonians or Bulgarians who are South Slavs are not!
Because that was the reason why I've replied to you!
If you have referred to the genetic side, than I've shown you my results and I can show you a lot others, so you can see by your own eyes that there is no magical genetic wall between you and the Macedonians or the Bulgarians!
And when you say 'continuity in the Balkan space is confirmed by many' you need to give reference for that, because I have read many books on the Vlachs issue and I have yet to see what kind of facts can confirm that, because the Vlach's origin is one of the bigger mysteries and also I have yet to see how the South Slavs(Macedonians and Bulgarians) don't have continuity in the Balkan space, because there were many studies on the Balkan people genetics and none of them have confirmed that there is no genetic continuity from the ancient past till today regarding Bulgarians and Macedonians but on contrary!

Here, you can read one study from Bosch, in regard of the Aromanians and other Balkan population: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2005.00251.x

The conclusion of this study is 'Balkan populations have been shown to be genetically homogenous, and in concordance with the European genetic continuum, using both autosomal and uniparental markers even with the deep levels of resolution conferred by the large set of markers we typed'!

Do not get me wrong. I personally considered Bulgarians and Macedonians to be ours, maybe we sometimes felt even closer to them than Romanians.
 
Aspar, I have read as well about the great homogeneity of the Balkans with the exception to some degree of the Aromuns. And without being an expert of course, through my reading I have understood that Southern Slavs incl. Macedonians and Bulgarians are a sort of mix between Protobalkanic peoples (Thracians, Dacians, Illyrians, also maybe Greeks to some extent) and Slavs. I hope I understood this right, more or less.
To take myself as an example (you can see some short description of my origins above), through autosomal testing (in this case, at 23andme and the K36 report of Lukasz Macuga) you can see that I have a rather close affinity with North Macedonians and Bulgarians. Also my father who is more of a Greek islander than me shares some affinity with those. I don't know if we are characteristic cases or not, but I would think that we are.
 
Do not get me wrong. I personally considered Bulgarians and Macedonians to be ours, maybe we sometimes felt even closer to them than Romanians.

Thanks, I also consider the Aromanians close to us, both genetically and culturally, in fact I've been very interested about their history and culture and always wanted to find more about them.
I think they are very beautiful people.
The mystery that surrounds them, makes them even more interesting in my eyes!
Quite recently, I've tested myself with FTDNA's Big Y and I have found that I have a very close match on 67 markers, GD of 4, with a man from Northern Epirus in Albania, near Korcha!
I've tried to find something more about this man and I found that his parents have immigrated to USA in the beginning of 20th century.
He and his family are declaring themselves as Greeks and have mixed with other Greeks in USA!
However after reading about the history of Northern Epirus, I've found that there were many Aromanians living there and many of them have declared themselves as Greeks for some reasons!
So I believe that this man have Aromanian origins instead of Greek one!
The many TMRCA calculators I have tried, show that TMRCA between this man and me, have lived between 1200 AD and 1700 AD!
Also, my grandpa, has told me that the people of his village, have origins from somewhere else, more to the west of where the village was located!
And the village from where we descend is a mountain village located near Gevgeli, on the border between Greece and Macedonia!
So there must have been some migrations from North Epirus to there during the Ottoman Empire!
There is still to learn about my paternal origins and I will, because I am determined to discover more and this have became my hobbi!
 
@ Aspar.
People from village of Hoçisht are Albanians not Vlachs.
 
Aspar, I have read as well about the great homogeneity of the Balkans with the exception to some degree of the Aromuns. And without being an expert of course, through my reading I have understood that Southern Slavs incl. Macedonians and Bulgarians are a sort of mix between Protobalkanic peoples (Thracians, Dacians, Illyrians, also maybe Greeks to some extent) and Slavs. I hope I understood this right, more or less.
To take myself as an example (you can see some short description of my origins above), through autosomal testing (in this case, at 23andme and the K36 report of Lukasz Macuga) you can see that I have a rather close affinity with North Macedonians and Bulgarians. Also my father who is more of a Greek islander than me shares some affinity with those. I don't know if we are characteristic cases or not, but I would think that we are.

Yes that's true, there is great homogeneity.
For example, my origins are from few places in Greece and Rep. of Macedonia, very close to the border from Greece.
All my grandparents descend from places not more than 50 km set apart!
I also have done the K36 report from Lukasz.
You can read more about my report here:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-and-other-ancestry-tools&p=356880#post356880
 
Thanks, I also consider the Aromanians close to us, bo

Vlahs were numerous in Korca area. They were never corrupted to leave Christianity, the way Albanians and Greeks did. Keep in mind in time of revolution the number of Greek Muslims was 50% of its population but they forced the re conversion by law and force. Had revolution not happened at that time Greece would have been as Muslim as Turkey is by now.
So my point is you very well could be a Vlah genetically. Culturally is another matter
 
@ Aspar.
People from village of Hoçisht are Albanians not Vlachs.

It might be, all I know is that these people are Christians and are declaring themselves as Greeks although I am not very sure about that!
 
Aspar, thank you I will take a look now. My mom's family are Vlach from 2 different sides, the original family of her maternal grandfather (Vlachs from Trikala) and the original family of her paternal grandmother (probably Arvanitovlachi/Remeni). Both families emigrated to our village in Ioannina around the beginning of the 19th century it seems. The village was not a Vlach village so gradually they stopped speaking their language. They have mixed since then with locals from the village.
 
It might be, all I know is that these people are Christians and are declaring themselves as Greeks although I am not very sure about that!
The village is part orthodox and part musslim. The most important family among the orthodoxes in the village is the Plaku family. Plaku in Albanian mean old. Most famous from this family was Koço Plaku, a geologist engineer executed during the comunism.
 
Vlahs were numerous in Korca area. They were never corrupted to leave Christianity, the way Albanians and Greeks did. Keep in mind in time of revolution the number of Greek Muslims was 50% of its population but they forced the re conversion by law and force. Had revolution not happened at that time Greece would have been as Muslim as Turkey is by now.
So my point is you very well could be a Vlah genetically. Culturally is another matter


Thanks for the info
 
Aspar, I have read as well about the great homogeneity of the Balkans with the exception to some degree of the Aromuns. And without being an expert of course, through my reading I have understood that Southern Slavs incl. Macedonians and Bulgarians are a sort of mix between Protobalkanic peoples (Thracians, Dacians, Illyrians, also maybe Greeks to some extent) and Slavs. I hope I understood this right, more or less.
To take myself as an example (you can see some short description of my origins above), through autosomal testing (in this case, at 23andme and the K36 report of Lukasz Macuga) you can see that I have a rather close affinity with North Macedonians and Bulgarians. Also my father who is more of a Greek islander than me shares some affinity with those. I don't know if we are characteristic cases or not, but I would think that we are.


Alexandra try to understand something

Vlach is not a nationality,
it is a linguistic group.

pr Τριανταφυλλιδης of Auth in his book is clear about this,
he post his own searches and searches of others especially about Aromanians,
in a 20 km distance, in an area full of Armani and Amrnanestu speakers shows big diefferences among village to village although both Latin speakers,

especially Kutsuk Vlachs (Thessaly) are a total different genetical pool that the megle Vlachs, (wallachia Romania)
so the termination Vlach does not have any connection to a genetical continuity rather than to a linguistic Roman or Romanised speakers

Now some Vlachs especially from Romania were just and simple Romanised Slavs.
search the story of Antes kingdom,
Antes were Slavs, who got Romanised, Slavs who adopted Roman-Latin language.
so in some Vlachs the Slavic admixture is very high,
on contradictory, in some kutsuk Vlachs, who mostly were legionaires or villas habitants, and settled before the Slavic entrance to Balkans
we might see even 0% of what can we call Slavic admixture, but you can see strangely German or West Europe, or Atlanto-med admixture,
due to Legio 4 Macedonica fought in what is today Belgium and Netherlands.
 
Yes, I have understood this already, Yetos. From all that I have read too, I tend to think that they belonged to Protobalkanic peoples and that in some cases they mixed with Slavs, in some others (maybe fewer?) with Arvanites here in Greece, in some with locals of every country (there were also people joining the Vlach communities to enjoy the more autonomous life style of the Vlachs during different periods of occupation). I know that the various types of Vlachs can be very different to each other even in the same country, as in the example of Greece. I have Vlach family originating in the area of Trikala, as well as Vlach family belonging to the Arvanitovlachi/Remeni group who emigrated from Kolonje and Dagli of Albania to the villages of Kourenta in the area of Ioannina, Epirus. I have read quite a bit myself and I understand the variety and differentiation. However, I tend not to believe that they are "ancient Greek" or something but I wouldn't want to go into that discussion. It is my view on things and I don't feel the need to convince anybody.
 
Yeto's comment about the genetic diversity of the Vlachs which I agree with (to some degree, at least) put me into thoughts about what it is to be Vlach in general. Big topic. On the level of genetics, we still have a lot to discover in order to have a complete picture about Vlachs. On the level of how we as Vlachs (or partially Vlachs in my case :) ) sense our identity though, one sees a very common line. Vlachs from very different areas (not even restricted by national limits) sense themselves as being each other's ”brothers". And this is very interesting on its own.
Just a small anecdotal narration from my own life. I live in Athens, Greece. In my neighborhood, next to me (as I explained, two branches of my maternal family are Vlach) lives a lady who is Vlach from Grevena in Greece (Macedonia). Her family is 100% Vlach and she speaks Vlach fluently. A bit further up lives a Moodavian Vlach lady. At the playground where I take my kids we meet with another Albanian Vlach lady. We all recognise each other as fellow Vlachs and in a semi-humoristic way we even talk about our positive traits. I even hear comments about physical traits eg. the Vlach looks of my children :) As if we would be one continuous community (linguistically but also culturally and "genetically"). This is very interesting to observe.
Also when I was a child I experienced this a lot. The only difference is that my mom and my brother "look more Vlach" than me, and my brother would be the receiver of most "recognition" from "fellow Vlachs" from all over Greece, this time.
Also when I lived abroad (in Flanders) I had my fellow Vlach friend from another part of Epirus, reserving the best table at his restaurant for his fellow "Vlacha" as he used to called me. Quite awesome guy by the way. His children AND his Flemish wife are all speaking super fluent Vlach.
I try to sketch in an anecdotal way an objective picture of how someone who is of Vlach identity and ancestry experiences this identity in his interaction with other Vlachs from many different areas or countries, in everyday life.
Just an interesting observation, without any further claims.
 
This topic was discussed in another thread:
Regarding Vlachs there are two theories.
First, they are one of the four branches of the Romanian nation. They are from today Romania and during the middle age they migrated from their homeland. For example Thessaly during the middle age was called Great Wallachia. When Albanians migrated from Epir in Thessaly during the middle age they don't meet Greeks but Vlachs. Basically Dacians.
Second, Vlachs are latinized populations of Epir and from this region they migrated in the direction of Romania. Basically Illyrians.
One thing we know about them for sure. An important British scholar, Τ. Winnifrith(if i am not wrong he is a Vlach) has proven that Vlachs before latinization were not Greeks. And this conclusion of Winnifrith is very important in both cases.
 
Yeto's comment about the genetic diversity of the Vlachs which I agree with (to some degree, at least) put me into thoughts about what it is to be Vlach in general. Big topic. On the level of genetics, we still have a lot to discover in order to have a complete picture about Vlachs. On the level of how we as Vlachs (or partially Vlachs in my case :) ) sense our identity though, one sees a very common line. Vlachs from very different areas (not even restricted by national limits) sense themselves as being each other's ”brothers". And this is very interesting on its own.
Just a small anecdotal narration from my own life. I live in Athens, Greece. In my neighborhood, next to me (as I explained, two branches of my maternal family are Vlach) lives a lady who is Vlach from Grevena in Greece (Macedonia). Her family is 100% Vlach and she speaks Vlach fluently. A bit further up lives a Moodavian Vlach lady. At the playground where I take my kids we meet with another Albanian Vlach lady. We all recognise each other as fellow Vlachs and in a semi-humoristic way we even talk about our positive traits. I even hear comments about physical traits eg. the Vlach looks of my children :) As if we would be one continuous community (linguistically but also culturally and "genetically"). This is very interesting to observe.
Also when I was a child I experienced this a lot. The only difference is that my mom and my brother "look more Vlach" than me, and my brother would be the receiver of most "recognition" from "fellow Vlachs" from all over Greece, this time.
Also when I lived abroad (in Flanders) I had my fellow Vlach friend from another part of Epirus, reserving the best table at his restaurant for his fellow "Vlacha" as he used to called me. Quite awesome guy by the way. His children AND his Flemish wife are all speaking super fluent Vlach.
I try to sketch in an anecdotal way an objective picture of how someone who is of Vlach identity and ancestry experiences this identity in his interaction with other Vlachs from many different areas or countries, in everyday life.
Just an interesting observation, without any further claims.

Alexandra, delighted to know you're Vlach like me. In Romania we are enough vlachs with Balkan origins and from Greece. Many are so-called grammostianoi (from Gramos) that spread after 1870 in all Macedonia and Bulgaria. But there are also many "farseroti "(rremeni) Aromanians from Albania and also from Greece. Many seem physically quite Balkan and Greeks in the first place, but believe that the part of MyHeritage with Balkans refers to vlachs, Bulgarians, Macedonians, some of the Albanians and the northern Greeks, or as you said, a combination between the southern local population and the Slav element coming from the north, assimilated. But I'm not a genetic specialist, I just say what I see and feel.
 
Hello, Balkan 1992! Very happy to meet you too! We are also for one part Remeni who moved to Epirus from Albania. For the other part, Vlachs from Thessaly (Trikala) who also moved to Epirus. Do you come from a specific Vlach "tribe"? I am also not an expert by any means, just very interested to learn. Yes, it could be that myHeritage uses such populations as basis for it's Balkan category. Otherwise, someone like me would not score THAT high, I guess...Have a nice evening!
 
Alexandra, when do you think the Vlachs of Thessaly were hellenized?
 
Hello ihype02! On such matters, I personally trust a lot the analysis of Mr Dimitris Lithoksou. He recently explained to me that all these communities (Romioi, Arvanites, Vlachs, some Slavs, even Roma...) were living next to each other influencing each other to some level culturally and linguistically (especially through the words that would enter the vocabulary of the marketplace, of trading and commerce). So he thinks that there were no such processes as hellinisation, slavicisation, or turkification of whole populations. It must all have happened more organically through centuries of co-existence and cultural exchange. From what I have read (of course I tend to have a rather radical viewpoint in comparison to many Greeks) I would think that the Vlachs started forming and developing a Greek identity and conscience (identifying themselves with the Greeks) during the years before-during and after the revolution against the Ottomans. This is my understanding from my reading (of course in my effort to understand the closest to the truth scenario I am kind of rejecting many of the things I read in the process). I guess there is a lot more to read and a lot more to understand for me in the future but I really appreciate Lithoksou for his free thinking and trust his opinion quite a lot on this.
 

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