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Thread: MyHeritage DNA Balkans category refers to the dinaric / epirotic race?

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    MyHeritage DNA Balkans category refers to the dinaric / epirotic race?



    We observe that different people in the Balkan area and some slave countries plus Romania are doing their DNA tests with MyHeritage, some of them results the Balkan category, but what exactly does this category refer to the South Slavs or the autochtons Vlachs, Epirotes, Albanians ?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-PF7263 (BY38105)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    A4a1 (A1a)

    Ethnic group
    Epirus, Vlach, Arvanite, Kephalonia, Kea
    Country: Greece



    I don't know the answer but I can just give you my personal results. I am 50% Epirot Greek and for the rest Island Greek (Kefalonia and Kea). At my Heritage I score around 45% Balkan and 41% Greek. It also made me wonder a bit as of what the categories represent. I have also known Vlach and Arvanite ancestry and our region in Epirus is characterized also by Slavic presence historically (Vajunites, Bulgarians and Serbs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    I don't know the answer but I can just give you my personal results. I am 50% Epirot Greek and for the rest Island Greek (Kefalonia and Kea). At my Heritage I score around 45% Balkan and 41% Greek. It also made me wonder a bit as of what the categories represent. I have also known Vlach and Arvanite ancestry and our region in Epirus is characterized also by Slavic presence historically (Vajunites, Bulgarians and Serbs).
    I am curious to know what is an Epirot Greek.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    We are all so mixed in the Balkans that such answers become complicated and need a lot of research. Also every area of Epirus might have a slightly different history and display different characteristics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    I am curious to know what is an Epirot Greek.
    Even Greeks don't know! Greek, from Thrace, Greek from Thesalia, Greek from Epirus, Greek from Macedonia, Greek from......another 10 names. All they mean to me is: not real Greek. Greeks are in terms of population the same size like Albania and have a lot more genetic subdivision than Italy. I don't know why they keep mentioning Epirus, because Greeks brought to the area many so called Greeks from Anatolia in Time of exchange.
    I saw a video of an Albanian who scored 100% south European but both his Y dna and mtDna were the same like the majority of Slavs. How can that be?

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    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Even Greeks don't know! Greek, from Thrace, Greek from Thesalia, Greek from Epirus, Greek from Macedonia, Greek from......another 10 names. All they mean to me is: not real Greek. Greeks are in terms of population the same size like Albania and have a lot more genetic subdivision than Italy. I don't know why they keep mentioning Epirus, because Greeks brought to the area many so called Greeks from Anatolia in Time of exchange.
    I saw a video of an Albanian who scored 100% south European but both his Y dna and mtDna were the same like the majority of Slavs. How can that be?
    Like every other Balkan country I think that we are characterized by some considerable levels of admixture.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Balkan1992 View Post
    We observe that different people in the Balkan area and some slave countries plus Romania are doing their DNA tests with MyHeritage, some of them results the Balkan category, but what exactly does this category refer to the South Slavs or the autochtons Vlachs, Epirotes, Albanians ?
    First you need to learn how to write so you can clearly express your thoughts and to learn the difference between slave and Slavic!
    When you say 'South Slavs or the autochthonous Vlachs, Epirotes, Albanians', somehow you imply that the South Slavs are not autochthonous although thay have been in the Balkans for more than 1500 years now.
    By the way, how do you know that the Vlachs are more native than the South Slavs?
    All we know is that they speak a Latin derived language and are very similar in dna with other Balkanites, including the South Slavs for that matter!
    By the way, you Romanians say that you descend from the Dacians but speak a Latin derived language.
    Well, how is that possible?
    The Dacians had their own language, they weren't Latin speakers.
    Do you really think that 150 years of Roman rule in Dacia, was enough to change the language of whole population?
    And if so, don't you think, the same have happened to the South Slavs, so in other words, they are also largely descended from the natives who were slavicized?
    Do I have to remind you that the Vlachs were first attested in the history only in the 10th century AD, four centuries later after the arrival of the Slavs in the Balkans!
    The first written reference to the name Vlach is made by George Querrinos in 976 AD. who wrote that David, the brother of the Bulgarian emperor Samuel, was killed in 976 by "Vlachs hodites" between Kastoria and Prespa.
    Also, the Vlachs are not an homogeneous population, but they represent the people from the Balkans to all the way up to South Poland who were in contact with Slavs and who were speaking a Latin language, therefore many Goths, Huns, Slavs, Cumans and whatever not have entered in the Vlachs gene pool.
    Your language was up to the 19th century a half Latin, half Slavic language when you decided to make it fully Latin, therefore you incorporated many French words in your vocabulary which is quite frankly laughable.
    And for the end I can bet my ass you are more Eastern European than the Macedonians and the Bulgarians for sure!
    You can put your 'my heritage' results just for comparision!
    Here are mine:





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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Balkan on MyHeritage is most certainly based on Southern Slavs. It is obvious because Balkan Slavs, and actual northern/western Slavs score considerable if not more than Albanians and Greeks. The reference groups are Southern Slavs. Greek reference groups are Greeks, Albanians, and Bulgarians(if memory serves).

    For instance, my father scores 98% Greek and 2 %Italian. He is Albanian from Diber vogel. My mother scores 35 percent Balkan, 61 percent Greek and 4% Italian. My mothers grandmother is Montenegrin. I score 16 percent Balkan(taken from my mother) 76% Greek, and 8% Italian.

    I have seen Poles who score up to 40 percent Balkan. It is not actually based on native Balkans. The above individual Aleksandra with 40% Balkan who mentions Epirus makes sense, as many Slavs and Vlachs were in Epirus in the middle ages prior to assimilation.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Hello Dibran, thank you for your explanation. I was surprised to score more Balkan than Greek (45% Balkan as opposed to 41% Greek). My family has known Vlach and Arvanite roots and our village used to be a Slavic settlement of the Middle Ages. This maybe reinforces what you wrote in the end, about the assimilation of Vlachs, Slavs (and Arvanites for that matter).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Balkan on MyHeritage is most certainly based on Southern Slavs. It is obvious because Balkan Slavs, and actual northern/western Slavs score considerable if not more than Albanians and Greeks. The reference groups are Southern Slavs. Greek reference groups are Greeks, Albanians, and Bulgarians(if memory serves).

    For instance, my father scores 98% Greek and 2 %Italian. He is Albanian from Diber vogel. My mother scores 35 percent Balkan, 61 percent Greek and 4% Italian. My mothers grandmother is Montenegrin. I score 16 percent Balkan(taken from my mother) 76% Greek, and 8% Italian.

    I have seen Poles who score up to 40 percent Balkan. It is not actually based on native Balkans. The above individual Aleksandra with 40% Balkan who mentions Epirus makes sense, as many Slavs and Vlachs were in Epirus in the middle ages prior to assimilation.
    The Bulgarians are not in the 'Greek' reference group.
    If that was the case, many Bulgarians would of been 60% + 'Greek'.
    The thing is, these commercial companies are clueless when it comes to naming and identifying some groups.
    The reason some South Poles and other western Slavs get so much 'Balkan' is because the 'Balkan' reference group is based on samples from Bulgarians and also from Croatians which is quite frankly stupid.
    The medieval Croats migrated to the Balkans from the area of South Poland, therefore many people there have similar genetics with Croats.
    I also seen many Albanians with 50% + "Balkan' on MyHeritage, some of them are my matches, others have posted theis results on You Tube and these are probably Ghegs but that doesn't mean that they have Slavic dna but because this clueless company probably have samples of Tosks and Greeks and have based this so called 'Greek' cluster on these samples
    That's the way it works.
    By the way, this is what My Heritage says for the 'Balkan' cluster:
    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6)]
    The Balkan Peninsula of Southeast Europe was the first in the continent to incorporate the practice of agriculture brought over from Mesopotamia some 5,000 years ago. It has long stood as a socio-political meeting point, bridging between Latin, Greek, and Slavic cultures in antiquity, Christianity and Islam in the early modern period, and opposing sides during the World Wars and Cold War in recent history. Despite strife and ethnic conflict, the region continues to be a bridge between rich cultures and identities. Balkan music has become internationally popular in recent years; it incorporates Slavic and West Asian influences and is distinguished by its rhythmic energy and danceability.
    [/COLOR]
    It doesn't say on which samples this cluster was based on, but we can suspect that incorporates Bulgarian and Croatian samples hence many Albanians get high 'Balkan' on this one, because the Bulgarians are also part pre-Slavic and why many South Poles get 'Balkan' because of the Croats, for which I already described why is that so!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    First you need to learn how to write so you can clearly express your thoughts and to learn the difference between slave and Slavic!
    When you say 'South Slavs or the autochthonous Vlachs, Epirotes, Albanians', somehow you imply that the South Slavs are not autochthonous although thay have been in the Balkans for more than 1500 years now.
    By the way, how do you know that the Vlachs are more native than the South Slavs?
    All we know is that they speak a Latin derived language and are very similar in dna with other Balkanites, including the South Slavs for that matter!
    By the way, you Romanians say that you descend from the Dacians but speak a Latin derived language.
    Well, how is that possible?
    The Dacians had their own language, they weren't Latin speakers.
    Do you really think that 150 years of Roman rule in Dacia, was enough to change the language of whole population?
    And if so, don't you think, the same have happened to the South Slavs, so in other words, they are also largely descended from the natives who were slavicized?
    Do I have to remind you that the Vlachs were first attested in the history only in the 10th century AD, four centuries later after the arrival of the Slavs in the Balkans!
    The first written reference to the name Vlach is made by George Querrinos in 976 AD. who wrote that David, the brother of the Bulgarian emperor Samuel, was killed in 976 by "Vlachs hodites" between Kastoria and Prespa.
    Also, the Vlachs are not an homogeneous population, but they represent the people from the Balkans to all the way up to South Poland who were in contact with Slavs and who were speaking a Latin language, therefore many Goths, Huns, Slavs, Cumans and whatever not have entered in the Vlachs gene pool.
    Your language was up to the 19th century a half Latin, half Slavic language when you decided to make it fully Latin, therefore you incorporated many French words in your vocabulary which is quite frankly laughable.
    And for the end I can bet my ass you are more Eastern European than the Macedonians and the Bulgarians for sure!
    You can put your 'my heritage' results just for comparision!
    Here are mine:




    I think I spoke quite coherently and civilized, I do not understand what you thought you were so ambiguous ... Now I made a strictly genetic reference, I did not discuss the linguistic part. I was talking more about the Balkan Vlachs (Aromanians), not about the Romanians or Romania, who can see them more Slavs than Macedonians or even Bulgarians. My origins are a good part of the Balkans Vlachs and the Greeks. I have more Greek or Aromanian feelings than Romanian. MyHeritage DNA to me is - 55.7% Balkans, 31.6% Greek, 11.1% Baltic, 1.1% Ashkenazi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    Like every other Balkan country I think that we are characterized by some considerable levels of admixture.
    You need to check on the people of Corfu..........never ever taken by the ottomans...no slavs......only had Venetians from 1200 to 1800.....some jews from 1500 ..........how much epirote do they have
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    In Corfù there have been a lot of Epirotes (Greek-speaking), Arvanites and of course, a significant community of Vlachs. There are even quite a few Slavic toponyms in Corfù.
    Not to mention a few Mardaites 😀

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    First you need to learn how to write so you can clearly express your thoughts and to learn the difference between slave and Slavic!
    When you say 'South Slavs or the autochthonous Vlachs, Epirotes, Albanians', somehow you imply that the South Slavs are not autochthonous although thay have been in the Balkans for more than 1500 years now.
    By the way, how do you know that the Vlachs are more native than the South Slavs?
    All we know is that they speak a Latin derived language and are very similar in dna with other Balkanites, including the South Slavs for that matter!
    By the way, you Romanians say that you descend from the Dacians but speak a Latin derived language.
    Well, how is that possible?
    The Dacians had their own language, they weren't Latin speakers.
    Do you really think that 150 years of Roman rule in Dacia, was enough to change the language of whole population?
    And if so, don't you think, the same have happened to the South Slavs, so in other words, they are also largely descended from the natives who were slavicized?
    Do I have to remind you that the Vlachs were first attested in the history only in the 10th century AD, four centuries later after the arrival of the Slavs in the Balkans!
    The first written reference to the name Vlach is made by George Querrinos in 976 AD. who wrote that David, the brother of the Bulgarian emperor Samuel, was killed in 976 by "Vlachs hodites" between Kastoria and Prespa.
    Also, the Vlachs are not an homogeneous population, but they represent the people from the Balkans to all the way up to South Poland who were in contact with Slavs and who were speaking a Latin language, therefore many Goths, Huns, Slavs, Cumans and whatever not have entered in the Vlachs gene pool.
    Your language was up to the 19th century a half Latin, half Slavic language when you decided to make it fully Latin, therefore you incorporated many French words in your vocabulary which is quite frankly laughable.
    And for the end I can bet my ass you are more Eastern European than the Macedonians and the Bulgarians for sure!
    You can put your 'my heritage' results just for comparision!
    Here are mine:




    I have written logically quite logically, I do not see anything ambiguous. I have strictly referred to the genetic side, not the linguistic part. I did not refer directly to the Romanians and Romania, but to the Balkan Vlachs (Aromanians) whose continuity in the Balkan space is confirmed by many. My origins are mostly in the Balkan Vlachs and Greeks. MyHeritage DNA results are 55.7% Balkans, 31.6% Greek, 11.1% Baltic, 1.1% Ashkenazi.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    You need to check on the people of Corfu..........never ever taken by the ottomans...no slavs......only had Venetians from 1200 to 1800.....some jews from 1500 ..........how much epirote do they have
    What % of Corfu used to be Venetian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    In Corfù there have been a lot of Epirotes (Greek-speaking), Arvanites and of course, a significant community of Vlachs. There are even quite a few Slavic toponyms in Corfù.
    Not to mention a few Mardaites 😀
    the last I saw taken from 2 papers one being di Giacommo 2003

    date 2011 ....includes the ionion island group

    Corfu & Ionian islands (158 samples)

    I : 11.4
    R1a : 7.6
    R1b : 22.8
    E1b : 20.3
    G2 : 8.2
    J2 : 19.6
    J1 : 5.1
    LT : 3.2
    * : 1.9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    What % of Corfu used to be Venetian?
    what do you mean by %
    It was the main naval base for Venice in the southern part of the Adriatic sea
    The civil and military governor of the Ionian Islands was the Provveditore generale da Mar, who lived on Corfu and had the supreme peacetime command of the Venetian navy.[66][67]
    In Corfu the Venetian officials included a bailo, a provveditore and a capitano, two consiglieri, a capitano della cittadella and a castellano della fortezza. In Cephalonia and Zante there were only one provveditore and two consiglieri.[74] When Lefkada (Santa Maura) was incorporated a Provveditore was appointed, while the archives also record the occasional appointment of a Provveditore straordinario,[75] although, in 1595, another provveditore was appointed to the Fortress of Asso.[76] In Cythera the reggimento included both a provveditore and a castellano.[77] In imitation of the metropolis, the domestic authorities comprised both a Consiglio Maggiore and a Consiglio Minore composed of members of the local aristocracy.[71]
    There were ten fortresses throughout the islands, with one on each island serving as its capital.[76] On Corfu, however, there were three fortresses; two in the town of Corfu and the Angelokastro.[76] On Cephalonia there were two, the castle of St. George or the Fortress of Cephalonia (Città di Cefalonia) and the Fortress of Asso (Fortezza d'Asso) in the northern part.[76][78]

    .
    Corfiot Italians were mainly concentrated in the city of Corfu, which was called "Città di Corfù" by the Venetians. More than half of the population of Corfu city in the 18th century was Venetian-speaking.[2]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    what do you mean by %
    It was the main naval base for Venice in the southern part of the Adriatic sea
    The civil and military governor of the Ionian Islands was the Provveditore generale da Mar, who lived on Corfu and had the supreme peacetime command of the Venetian navy.[66][67]
    In Corfu the Venetian officials included a bailo, a provveditore and a capitano, two consiglieri, a capitano della cittadella and a castellano della fortezza. In Cephalonia and Zante there were only one provveditore and two consiglieri.[74] When Lefkada (Santa Maura) was incorporated a Provveditore was appointed, while the archives also record the occasional appointment of a Provveditore straordinario,[75] although, in 1595, another provveditore was appointed to the Fortress of Asso.[76] In Cythera the reggimento included both a provveditore and a castellano.[77] In imitation of the metropolis, the domestic authorities comprised both a Consiglio Maggiore and a Consiglio Minore composed of members of the local aristocracy.[71]

    There were ten fortresses throughout the islands, with one on each island serving as its capital.[76] On Corfu, however, there were three fortresses; two in the town of Corfu and the Angelokastro.[76] On Cephalonia there were two, the castle of St. George or the Fortress of Cephalonia (Città di Cefalonia) and the Fortress of Asso (Fortezza d'Asso) in the northern part.[76][78]
    How large was the population?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    How large was the population?
    Island 1532
    Corfu 14,246
    ..
    Corfu in 1766....44333 people
    .
    Lefkada in 1766....11760
    .
    Cephalonia in 1766...21659
    .
    Zante in 1766....25325
    .
    Cythera in 1766 ....6183

    .
    none where ever taken by the Ottomans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkan1992 View Post
    I have written logically quite logically, I do not see anything ambiguous. I have strictly referred to the genetic side, not the linguistic part. I did not refer directly to the Romanians and Romania, but to the Balkan Vlachs (Aromanians) whose continuity in the Balkan space is confirmed by many. My origins are mostly in the Balkan Vlachs and Greeks. MyHeritage DNA results are 55.7% Balkans, 31.6% Greek, 11.1% Baltic, 1.1% Ashkenazi.
    Well I have yet to see how the Aromanians, Epirotans or Albanians for that matter are autochthonous and the Macedonians or Bulgarians who are South Slavs are not!
    Because that was the reason why I've replied to you!
    If you have referred to the genetic side, than I've shown you my results and I can show you a lot others, so you can see by your own eyes that there is no magical genetic wall between you and the Macedonians or the Bulgarians!
    And when you say 'continuity in the Balkan space is confirmed by many' you need to give reference for that, because I have read many books on the Vlachs issue and I have yet to see what kind of facts can confirm that, because the Vlach's origin is one of the bigger mysteries and also I have yet to see how the South Slavs(Macedonians and Bulgarians) don't have continuity in the Balkan space, because there were many studies on the Balkan people genetics and none of them have confirmed that there is no genetic continuity from the ancient past till today regarding Bulgarians and Macedonians but on contrary!

    Here, you can read one study from Bosch, in regard of the Aromanians and other Balkan population: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...9.2005.00251.x

    The conclusion of this study is 'Balkan populations have been shown to be genetically homogenous, and in concordance with the European genetic continuum, using both autosomal and uniparental markers even with the deep levels of resolution conferred by the large set of markers we typed'!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    Well I have yet to see how the Aromanians, Epirotans or Albanians for that matter are autochthonous and the Macedonians or Bulgarians who are South Slavs are not!
    Because that was the reason why I've replied to you!
    If you have referred to the genetic side, than I've shown you my results and I can show you a lot others, so you can see by your own eyes that there is no magical genetic wall between you and the Macedonians or the Bulgarians!
    And when you say 'continuity in the Balkan space is confirmed by many' you need to give reference for that, because I have read many books on the Vlachs issue and I have yet to see what kind of facts can confirm that, because the Vlach's origin is one of the bigger mysteries and also I have yet to see how the South Slavs(Macedonians and Bulgarians) don't have continuity in the Balkan space, because there were many studies on the Balkan people genetics and none of them have confirmed that there is no genetic continuity from the ancient past till today regarding Bulgarians and Macedonians but on contrary!

    Here, you can read one study from Bosch, in regard of the Aromanians and other Balkan population: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...9.2005.00251.x

    The conclusion of this study is 'Balkan populations have been shown to be genetically homogenous, and in concordance with the European genetic continuum, using both autosomal and uniparental markers even with the deep levels of resolution conferred by the large set of markers we typed'!
    Do not get me wrong. I personally considered Bulgarians and Macedonians to be ours, maybe we sometimes felt even closer to them than Romanians.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Aspar, I have read as well about the great homogeneity of the Balkans with the exception to some degree of the Aromuns. And without being an expert of course, through my reading I have understood that Southern Slavs incl. Macedonians and Bulgarians are a sort of mix between Protobalkanic peoples (Thracians, Dacians, Illyrians, also maybe Greeks to some extent) and Slavs. I hope I understood this right, more or less.
    To take myself as an example (you can see some short description of my origins above), through autosomal testing (in this case, at 23andme and the K36 report of Lukasz Macuga) you can see that I have a rather close affinity with North Macedonians and Bulgarians. Also my father who is more of a Greek islander than me shares some affinity with those. I don't know if we are characteristic cases or not, but I would think that we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkan1992 View Post
    Do not get me wrong. I personally considered Bulgarians and Macedonians to be ours, maybe we sometimes felt even closer to them than Romanians.
    Thanks, I also consider the Aromanians close to us, both genetically and culturally, in fact I've been very interested about their history and culture and always wanted to find more about them.
    I think they are very beautiful people.
    The mystery that surrounds them, makes them even more interesting in my eyes!
    Quite recently, I've tested myself with FTDNA's Big Y and I have found that I have a very close match on 67 markers, GD of 4, with a man from Northern Epirus in Albania, near Korcha!
    I've tried to find something more about this man and I found that his parents have immigrated to USA in the beginning of 20th century.
    He and his family are declaring themselves as Greeks and have mixed with other Greeks in USA!
    However after reading about the history of Northern Epirus, I've found that there were many Aromanians living there and many of them have declared themselves as Greeks for some reasons!
    So I believe that this man have Aromanian origins instead of Greek one!
    The many TMRCA calculators I have tried, show that TMRCA between this man and me, have lived between 1200 AD and 1700 AD!
    Also, my grandpa, has told me that the people of his village, have origins from somewhere else, more to the west of where the village was located!
    And the village from where we descend is a mountain village located near Gevgeli, on the border between Greece and Macedonia!
    So there must have been some migrations from North Epirus to there during the Ottoman Empire!
    There is still to learn about my paternal origins and I will, because I am determined to discover more and this have became my hobbi!

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    @ Aspar.
    People from village of Hoçisht are Albanians not Vlachs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    Aspar, I have read as well about the great homogeneity of the Balkans with the exception to some degree of the Aromuns. And without being an expert of course, through my reading I have understood that Southern Slavs incl. Macedonians and Bulgarians are a sort of mix between Protobalkanic peoples (Thracians, Dacians, Illyrians, also maybe Greeks to some extent) and Slavs. I hope I understood this right, more or less.
    To take myself as an example (you can see some short description of my origins above), through autosomal testing (in this case, at 23andme and the K36 report of Lukasz Macuga) you can see that I have a rather close affinity with North Macedonians and Bulgarians. Also my father who is more of a Greek islander than me shares some affinity with those. I don't know if we are characteristic cases or not, but I would think that we are.
    Yes that's true, there is great homogeneity.
    For example, my origins are from few places in Greece and Rep. of Macedonia, very close to the border from Greece.
    All my grandparents descend from places not more than 50 km set apart!
    I also have done the K36 report from Lukasz.
    You can read more about my report here:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....880#post356880

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