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Thread: Denmark's new laws for immigrants in "ghettos"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    what alternative do you propose?
    these immigrants are poor when they arrive and don't have proper skills for a decent job
    and they tend to flock together

    and as I told before, those living in the ghetto's are a minority, most of them eventualy succeed,
    but some will never learn
    Tell that to the people in the ghettos of Paris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Tell that to the people in the ghettos of Paris.
    do you mean ghettos or tentcamps ?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Trouble is we are moving to a mass automotive/Robotic manufacturing based society, supported with, and using artificial Intelligence. Employment will be decreasing as technology develops. There will be difficulties with maintaining employment,in most developed countries now, and It will be virtually impossible and impractible to receive thousands of more immigrants, it will only serve to cause friction,de-stabilisation, and will seriously damage the existing way of life for most European Countries, the evidence of this is now being seen.

    In Great Britain we developed NHS and Welfare, systems to help the 'British' populations after the second world war, to offer security and a decent standard of living for every family of the UK, this has been overwhelmed, and abused by millions of people who it was never intended to support.

    The NHS and the Welfare system are both in crisis, as the majority of its finances are spent on consultants from around the world,it is one of the biggest rip off machines ever developed, for most of them. Agency fees are also another cancer eating into it. These two systems were developed and placed there to serve and reward the British people and their families,who had suffered so much defending freedom and a way of life during 1939-45, so that no British person or family, would ever again starve or suffer extreme hardship.

    They are now global attractions, that are being abused and destroyed by thousands of immigrants, and foreign nationals taking advantage and exploiting every aspect of what was built to support the British indigenous populations, and standard of living.

    Put these together, and you see the demise of a once great nation, that is struggling so hard to stay afloat, and survive. Drastic measures have to be taken soon, otherwise the UK as it was/is, will soon sink and disappear forever, and sadly it is also looking to be the same, for many other European Countries, including Denmark.
    Last edited by paul333; 09-07-18 at 21:21. Reason: corrections

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Why don't the Danes let the Muslims know how they really feel about Islam and just mandate the eating of pork by all Muslims three times a day and ban burqas and prayer mats.

    NYC has the same issue with Hasidic Jews. They are anti-social, only hanging out with other jews. They use the welfare programs. And they have their own sub-culture. Force the Hasidic jews to read the Gospels three times a day, take away their children to learn about the writings of St. Paul, force them to eat pork, ban hasidic jewish outfits and other customs deemed anti-social. Hasidic jews don't seem to be assimilating. Come on, equality for all. What about homeschoolers in the Midwest. What about those kids...

    My Italian Grandmother spoke broken english her whole life and lived in the states. Here associates and friends were only family members. Was that a crime... The same is true for Irish immgrants, Polish immigrants. And they "mournfully" went to Catholic services, like how many viewed these Muslims attend Mosques.

    Are we headed for another nazis Germany with picking on a minority group. This time, Muslims. For the far right will love these illegal and immoral statutes being created by the Danes.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    Why don't the Danes let the Muslims know how they really feel about Islam and just mandate the eating of pork by all Muslims three times a day and ban burqas and prayer mats.

    NYC has the same issue with Hasidic Jews. They are anti-social, only hanging out with other jews. They use the welfare programs. And they have their own sub-culture. Force the Hasidic jews to read the Gospels three times a day, take away their children to learn about the writings of St. Paul, force them to eat pork, ban hasidic jewish outfits and other customs deemed anti-social. Hasidic jews don't seem to be assimilating. Come on, equality for all. What about homeschoolers in the Midwest. What about those kids...

    My Italian Grandmother spoke broken english her whole life and lived in the states. Here associates and friends were only family members. Was that a crime... The same is true for Irish immgrants, Polish immigrants. And they "mournfully" went to Catholic services, like how many viewed these Muslims attend Mosques.

    Are we headed for another nazis Germany with picking on a minority group. This time, Muslims. For the far right will love these illegal and immoral statutes being created by the Danes.
    this is 21st century
    women have their own rights today
    to make their own decisions and to devellop their own talents

    I don't think you'd like your daughter to live like your grandmother
    and in these 'ghetto's' it's far worse

    and refering to nazi Germany is grotesque,
    you're insulting your own intelligence

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    In the States, the Muslims are the most American, hard working class of immigrants. If you like conservatism and tradition, they will preserve the American culture and society better than the rest. They are not falling for neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism like the average joe is in the States. Which preaches endless wars for endless corporate profits. This migrant crisis is a symptom of these endless wars in the Middle East that neo-libs and neo-cons love so much.

    Muslim neighborhoods in the states are among the safest in the inner cities, they revive inner cities. They are good and kind to their Christian neighbors. They are most like Italian and Balkan immigrants of the early 20th Century in values.

    I am not falling for this generic hatred of Muslim and Mexican immigrants that is sweeping the Europe and the States, respectively. Liberals hate them because their women behave like conservative Christian grandmothers in Bulgaria, wearing a headscarf and never worked but let their husbands work. The far right hates them because they hate foreigners in general.

    Those are their main offenses, which are not offenses. And like other poor, they take advantage of programs for the poor. Mexicans are hated here because they are a burden to the schools and "government benefits".

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    3 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    In the States, the Muslims are the most American, hard working class of immigrants. If you like conservatism and tradition, they will preserve the American culture and society better than the rest. They are not falling for neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism like the average joe is in the States. Which preaches endless wars for endless corporate profits. This migrant crisis is a symptom of these endless wars in the Middle East that neo-libs and neo-cons love so much.

    Muslim neighborhoods in the states are among the safest in the inner cities, they revive inner cities. They are good and kind to their Christian neighbors. They are most like Italian and Balkan immigrants of the early 20th Century in values.

    I am not falling for this generic hatred of Muslim and Mexican immigrants that is sweeping the Europe and the States, respectively. Liberals hate them because their women behave like conservative Christian grandmothers in Bulgaria, wearing a headscarf and never worked but let their husbands work. The far right hates them because they hate foreigners in general.

    Those are their main offenses, which are not offenses. And like other poor, they take advantage of programs for the poor. Mexicans are hated here because they are a burden to the schools and "government benefits".
    I don't know what America you live in, or your ancestry, but this is complete hyperbole.

    If you were talking about the Christian Middle Easterners, whether Lebanese or Palestinian, I might agree with you. I've worked on charities for them and know these communities pretty well.

    A sizeable chunk of the Muslim community here believes that SHARIA law should be imposed. Where are you living that you didn't read about those surveys and interviews in mosques? You think that would go over well with Bulgarian grandmothers or Greek ones or anywhere else in Europe? Or how about honor killings, and female circumcision, for which doctors have been persecuted?

    Please. You can disagree with enforced day care and language instruction but distorting the reality in the other direction is unhelpful.


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    I visit a Muslim family monthly. And their neighbors all love them. Best residents on the block. Most involved in family, community and country.

    Do you remember how Italian immigrants could fix anything for neighbors and banded together. This Muslim family fixes stuff for the neighbors, they all share food.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    I visit a Muslim family monthly. And their neighbors all love them. Best residents on the block. Most involved in family, community and country.

    Do you remember how Italian immigrants could fix anything for neighbors and banded together. This Muslim family fixes stuff for the neighbors, they all share food.
    nobody said there are no good, hardworking Muslims
    I told twice above that those Muslims in these 'ghetto's' that don't integrate are a minority amongst the immigants
    but they do exist

    and there is worse
    there are Whahabi imams in Europe sponsered and paid by the Saudi government to teach an extremist form of Islam
    most of them are identified by now and expelled or being expelled though

    there has been an almost criminal naïvity toward Islam in Europe for the last few decades
    and that naïvity came from mostly leftist politicians that were in power during that period

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    (mainly Muslim) Refugees revitalize American cities

    The Obama administration’s decision to bring in 110,000 refugees next year, a small percentage of the overall immigration the United States will see from around the world, will benefit America in significant ways.


    Refugee resettlement has played a valuable role in revitalizing towns and cities that have declined and stagnated economically. Contrary to anti-refugee rhetoric that shuns and maligns, refugees contribute to job growth, our economy, and our lives.


    But Somalis saw a chance to open businesses in a town that had declined since the 1970s with the loss of the mill industry. Restaurants and shops took root in the decaying town center that residents referred to as “the combat zone.” It’s taken hard work and cooperative spirit, but Somalis today are integrated, and some, like Zamzam Mohamud, whom the mayor appointed to the school board, have become icons of community engagement. Crime has gone down, according to the police chief. A few years after Somalis began arriving, Inc. magazine named Lewiston one of the best places to do business in America.


    This is not a unique story. St Louis has one of the largest Bosnian refugee populations in the country, many of them Muslims. They began arriving two decades ago and rebuilt their lives and brought prosperity. A local bank took a chance early on, providing loans to buy houses, invest in properties, and open restaurants, bakeries, repair shops, trucking businesses, and cleaning companies. Bosnian entrepreneurship has created jobs and opportunities for other Americans as well. The population of some 70,000 is credited with bolstering sagging school enrollment, invigorating the city center, revitalizing neighborhoods, and stabilizing the city’s decline.


    Bosnians in Utica, N.Y., along with Somalis, Burmese, and other refugees stemmed the tide of population decline there and have contributed to such a high degree that the mayor of Utica continues to welcome refugees, including Syrians. A PBS NewsHour report highlights that “Utica’s commitment to resettle refugees isn’t purely humanitarian — its open-door policy is also a pioneering economic tool for revitalizing the Rust Belt.”
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...NyJ/story.html

    I was speaking with a resident who said he wishes the whole city becomes Somali refugees because of what they did to the neighborhood of Little Italy. Little Italy was no longer Italian, the Italians fled to the suburbs because the neighborhood was no longer safe, crime rampant. But with the influx of Somali Muslims, the streets became much safer and it is a relatively safe neighborhood once again. We need more of these Somali migrants to help out other neighborhoods, they take care of their property, crime drops and businesses move in.

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    Denmark's new laws for immigrants in "ghettos"

    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    (mainly Muslim) Refugees revitalize American cities



    https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...NyJ/story.html

    I was speaking with a resident who said he wishes the whole city becomes Somali refugees because of what they did to the neighborhood of Little Italy. Little Italy was no longer Italian, the Italians fled to the suburbs because the neighborhood was no longer safe, crime rampant. But with the influx of Somali Muslims, the streets became much safer and it is a relatively safe neighborhood once again. We need more of these Somali migrants to help out other neighborhoods, they take care of their property, crime drops and businesses move in.
    Little Italy in New York lost some ground mainly to Chinatown, not mainly to Somali migrants.
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/02/2...ttleitaly.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    do you mean ghettos or tentcamps ?
    The "suburbs" of Paris.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    If he's talking about the Chinatown in NYC, they're invisible. I'm there probably once a month and I've never seen a sign of them. It's all Chinese. The only Italians work in the few Italian restaurants that are left and they probably leave Manhattan after work.

    Interestingly enough, I can't find data for Muslim immigrants specifically, but according to the Cato Institute 76% of immigrant families with children receive some sort of public assistance.

    How this is supposed to be good for our economy I don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Anti-immigrant sentiment is not necessarily racially based. Irish, Italians, Greeks, Poles, etc were discriminated against in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Asian immigrants have done very well in the US in the late 20th century. So have the South Americans that integrated quickly and chose professions or trades. Unspecialized, general work does not pay well and the more money you make the more easily you integrate. Speaking the local language helps you get more plumbing work and helps you advance in your career.
    I think that in this case, it a religion based. However, I do not think that it is right to force assimilate children into a new religion for 25 hours a week since they turn one.

    People call everything racist these days, whether or not it has anything to do with race.

    True, the wealthier you are the better you are accepted by the community, considering that everything costs money. The better you speak the language of the country the more you will adapt to the culture.

    However, a person who is capable of doing his degree in English and then gets a job in a western country does not necessarily assimilate into the local culture. This person may still hold strong believes in his or her religion.

    I will give you an example. There are plenty of south Asian people who migrated to western countries. They take their religion very seriously. However, on a national scale, I have not heard of the government using force assimilation to give up their religion.

    Not all South Asians are wealthy. If you talking about skin colour, some of them are as dark as Africans or even darker than some.



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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Maybe it is not a bad idea when done right. All children should be exposed to general curriculum, and general ideas and values, through public schools in every country. This should include not only emigrant kids but also conservative christian and jewish groups too, like amish, hutterites or hasidic jews.
    Now I do agree with many things you said. However, not on this. I think that it is wrong to force assimilate children into another religion. Unlike the Anglo-Saxons who let their ethnic minorities segregated into their sub-cultures, the French want their immigrants to integrate into their culture.

    Integration isn't assimilation, the Australian aboriginals were forcefully removed from their parents to be taken to a "home". Many of them were raped and tortured by white people. Many these days would refuse to go to the hospital to give birth because they think that their babies will be taken away from them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
    I think that in this case, it a religion based. However, I do not think that it is right to force assimilate children into a new religion for 25 hours a week since they turn one.

    People call everything racist these days, whether or not it has anything to do with race.

    True, the wealthier you are the better you are accepted by the community, considering that everything costs money. The better you speak the language of the country the more you will adapt to the culture.

    However, a person who is capable of doing his degree in English and then gets a job in a western country does not necessarily assimilate into the local culture. This person may still hold strong believes in his or her religion.

    I will give you an example. There are plenty of south Asian people who migrated to western countries. They take their religion very seriously. However, on a national scale, I have not heard of the government using force assimilation to give up their religion.

    Not all South Asians are wealthy. If you talking about skin colour, some of them are as dark as Africans or even darker than some.
    Yeah! As long as you contribute to the society you moved into and pose no harm to anyone, who cares about what big man in the sky you worship or whether you want to blend with the local culture?
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
    I think that in this case, it a religion based. However, I do not think that it is right to force assimilate children into a new religion for 25 hours a week since they turn one.
    People call everything racist these days, whether or not it has anything to do with race.
    True, the wealthier you are the better you are accepted by the community, considering that everything costs money. The better you speak the language of the country the more you will adapt to the culture.
    However, a person who is capable of doing his degree in English and then gets a job in a western country does not necessarily assimilate into the local culture. This person may still hold strong believes in his or her religion.
    I will give you an example. There are plenty of south Asian people who migrated to western countries. They take their religion very seriously. However, on a national scale, I have not heard of the government using force assimilation to give up their religion.
    Not all South Asians are wealthy. If you talking about skin colour, some of them are as dark as Africans or even darker than some.
    I don't understand where you got the notion that this is about forcing to assimilate another religion 25 hours per week.
    I don't know what they will teach those 25 hours. I hope they will broaden the minds of these children.
    But nowhere I read they are forced to give up the religion their parents chose to force upon them.

    Once again I must conclude that this article was written in a very suggestive way.
    The purpose is to impose a biassed view on the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The "suburbs" of Paris.
    what about them?
    what message do you have for them?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    @Minty, I am the kind of person that doesn't always look for underhanded reasons for things. What if they are simply trying to make the children feel more welcomed and help them to succeed in their new country. Teach them required behavior in classrooms, and help them learn the language so that they can understand their teachers, and to meet other children their ages. Simple things like the fact that a biscuit is a cookie (like my nephew who moved from Dallas, Texas to England where he went to the lunchroom for a couple of months and didn't know the lunch lady was asking if he wanted a cookie). Maybe they will help them get clothing that will be appropriate for the weather conditions. This is a strange new land they have been thrown into and a little help might go a long way.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Sharia law seems to be the eventual systemic "breaker" for complete integration/assimilation/societal acceptance. I don't know of a Muslim population on earth that doesn't begin to see sharia openly enforced when Islam is 15% or more of population.


    If only there was a way to confer a group of beliefs population-wide that allows for all who want it to practice love for one another, to show forgiveness, to express grace … but without the innate unfairness linked To sharia law. A group of beliefs that could serve as the foundational bedrock to successful societies that could last for hundreds, or maybe even thousands of years.
    Last edited by nordicwarrior; 15-07-18 at 12:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Little Italy in New York lost some ground mainly to Chinatown, not mainly to Somali migrants.
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/02/2...ttleitaly.html

    As a general rule we never talk about religion with our neighbors, co-workers and acquaintances.
    Just sayin’.
    There are Little Italies in many cities, I was not taking about NYC.

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    Denmark's new laws for immigrants in "ghettos"

    Quote Originally Posted by Messier 67 View Post
    There are Little Italies in many cities, I was not taking about NYC.
    You didn’t say which one, and by not being specific most people think of the most famous Little Italy in Manhattan.
    Also in Boston for example it’s just called The North End, and not Little Italy (by almost everybody).

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Children from “ghetto” areas will have to attend obligatory daycare for 25 hours or more a week from the age of 1, so that they learn “Danish values” and traditions.
    This means that migrant children from selected neighborhoods will spend 5 hours a day at a daycare center, learning Danish values. Muslim parents should take this opportunity to get free education for their children. Probably they will end up speaking better Danish than their parents and they may become more economically or academically successful later in life. Early childhood education is a privilege that is normally available for wealthy families only.
    Давайте вместе снова сделаем мир великий!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Nothing wrong with mandating daycare. It may perhaps improve the Danish of the children, although any time before around 12 you usually soak it up like a sponge. Given all the studies that have been done in the U.S., academic achievement depends on the IQ of the parents and the home environment, so, some of the kids will benefit and some won't. I wouldn't be expecting miracles.

    I don't even disapprove of curfews. We have them in certain American cities. A lot of parents are actually grateful.

    Some of the proposed but not approved (yet, perhaps) measures are totally out of line. So is instruction in "Christmas", other than explaining what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    nobody said there are no good, hardworking Muslims
    I told twice above that those Muslims in these 'ghetto's' that don't integrate are a minority amongst the immigants
    but they do exist
    and there is worse
    there are Whahabi imams in Europe sponsered and paid by the Saudi government to teach an extremist form of Islam
    most of them are identified by now and expelled or being expelled though
    there has been an almost criminal naïvity toward Islam in Europe for the last few decades
    and that naïvity came from mostly leftist politicians that were in power during that period
    yaaaah .. but I was told by my government that we do not sponsor any sort of extremism anywhere, oh my was I being lied to ? how dare they.
    Look, this has always been said about the Saudi government, but when I look at the princes, and how irreligious, material and hedonist they've become, most liberal movements and reforms are sponsored by them, their forefathers were probably true extremists, or used religion to legitimize their rule, but the consequences that had on the minds of succeeding generations of Saudis, seems to be an unwanted side effect that the current government wishes weren't the case, with no future for oil anymore, they want the country to look attractive to investment and tourism, well, good luck on that.
    If it was left to the common folk and democracy, some sheikh would brainwash some idiots, and we'll transform into a theocracy, and hopefully a peaceful one.
    If any funding for extremists comes from the Arabian peninsula, I don't blame the government, but other rich religious extremists, in the kingdom and elsewhere.
    there is still the probability that I'm an idiot, and wrong about all this.
    Last edited by bicicleur; 01-08-18 at 08:28.

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