Denmark's new laws for immigrants in "ghettos"

[Salento]

Denmark's new laws for immigrants in "ghettos"

Ted Cruz (Lyin' Ted), Texas’ Senator

Father: Cuban (a Castro supporter that emigrated legally with a student Visa). (He said that wasn’t aware that Fidel was a Communist. Another Lyin’ Cruz)
Mother: Three-quarters Irish and one-quarter Italian.

imo He looks more Cuban than Marco Rubio (Little Marco).
Walk around Miami, or browse around the airport.

 

[Angela]

Ted Cruz (Lyin' Ted), Texas’ Senator

Father: Cuban (a Castro supporter that emigrated legally with a student Visa). (He said that wasn’t aware that Fidel was a Communist. Another Lyin’ Cruz)
Mother: Three-quarters Irish and one-quarter Italian.

imo He looks more Cuban than Marco Rubio (Little Marco).
Walk around Miami, or browse around the airport.

There were two waves of Cuban immigration. The first wave were the "white" Cubans, the middle and upper class of Cuba who lost everything to Castro. They didn't know until modern genetic testing that they had any "other" ancestry. It turns out that contrary to what they were told, the Indians were not all massacred and they also have some SSA. The percentages range from a few percent to close to 10%. So, it's sort of like the Afrikaner situation although perhaps a bit more "minority" ancestry. There are a couple of papers on it and I've also seen the results of more than a few Cubans. They were shocked and so was I. You don't see it at all in this group.

That's not the only group of Cuban Americans who came here. Castro at one point opened the prisons and the slums and sent thousands here. Others have come subsequently. Almost all of them are visually mixed.

The two groups are entirely different in education level, prosperity, where they live etc. Some of the former group have returned to Cuba now that sanctions are relaxed, and they said the "white" Cubans no longer exist in Cuba. It's a group of people who have essentially disappeared. With the exodus of Afrikaners to Australia and elsewhere, that may happen to the Afrikaners as well.

Cruz' father was certainly not one of the original rabid anti-Castro Cuban refugees. For those Cuban-Americans, even to the second or third generation, even a trip to Cuba nowadays can mean half your family won't speak to you. It happened to a friend of mine. You can definitely see a bit of the admixture in him: he reminds me a bit of Colin Powell. It's not in the son, although there's a bit of an Italian look, I think.

I think Rubio has the Desi Arnaz kind of Cuban look.

Anyway, the point is that Cubans who looked like this were absorbed. The others weren't. It's reality whether one likes it or not.

@luciano,
No, they're not, but these countries allowed them in, in some cases sought them, or, during imperialist days, took their raw materials and in exchange gave them access. Now, when many of the younger generation have never seen the old "homeland", and speak their ancestral language very imperfectly, you think they're going to leave? It's a mess all around.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Just let in the "good" ones and send the rest back. I'm okay with immigration, but the great body of people that want to come to most of the West are on the whole detrimental to society.

 

[Salento]

 

[Salento]

Denmark's new laws for immigrants in "ghettos"

Maybe mass-migration cannot be stopped and must run its course.
When resources run low, or are depleted, we humans are driven to move, and seek better places and opportunities. Out of our perspective, of what we consider necessity, we could become belligerent.
It’s always been like that. Everywhere and at all times.
Example:
The Americas after 1492 (The Natives were replaced by pretty much everybody).
And, ... Slowly, the G-Men were almost all “replaced” by the massive migration of the R1b-Men.
It can happen again anywhere, in Europe too.
The Ratio of the Population Diversity has increased rapidly in last few years at the expense of the locals.
The Majorities could become the Minorities, it has already happened to California, and a similar trends is underway in more States too.

 

[Ygorcs]

Ygorcs, I agree with all of that, but immigrants also have to want to "change" their identities. That happened too much in the U.S. in prior generations. Second generation Italian-American children wanted to be un-hyphenated Americans, and to do that, they anglicized their first names, they didn't want to know anything about the "old country", they wouldn't even speak Italian to their parents. I think they even deliberately sought out non Italian partners when it came to dating and marrying. It's been later generations who have tried to reconnect a bit with their "roots".

The Italians and the Germans and the Irish didn't have to change their religion to fit in really, but many of the Jews did. The conservative and reform movements were American innovations. Most American Jews didn't want to wear David locks and strange black clothes, a lot of them didn't want to keep kosher, or at least only in their homes.

Of course, part of all this was also the fact that in the early 1900s you couldn't go traipsing back and forth to the home country, there was no access to Italian language radio or television, and on and on.

That's why even here there is a difference between the earlier generation of immigrants and the newer Hispanic Americans, which is partially attributable to their holding on more to their "original" identity. The other part is because some of them decidedly look non-European, and so I think, to be honest, that "white" Americans are more "loathe" to accept them. I'm telling you, there is a big difference in the acceptance and absorption of "white" Cubans (who actually aren't "completely" white) and, say, Puerto Ricans, in many of whom you see the SSA ancestry. Mexican Americans are sort of in between.

Marco Rubio, who ran for President and is the descendant of Cuban refugees. His dad was a bar man and waiter his entire working life. Rubio looks typical of the Cuban Americans I know.


Puerto Rican Day parade:

Racism is alive and well and it's dishonest to deny it's a factor.

As far as Europe is concerned (and the U.S. for that matter), I don't know the solution, but I think both sides have to be honest and accept part of the blame.

I agree completely with everything you said. Now things are different and, as far as integration and assimilation are concerned, much more difficult. TV, smartphones, internet, international travel, better access to imports - advanced technology as a whole makes it now so much easier to avoid integration.

Some immigrants in the past were also recalcitrant against anything resembling total assimilation in their new homeland, but ultimately if not them then their children would become totally assimilated, because the other option was to simply be totally excluded from everything that makes one's living more than utterly boring and lame. Especially for youngsters the prospect of not fitting in any "group/tribe and being shut off from trendy things and entertainments is terrible - so, "let's get assimilated". People got assimilated "naturally" not just because they usually had to coexist with people unlike them and their parents, but also because they wanted to have access to the amenities of life available only in the language and cultural ways of the majority in the country. I suspect that necessity was especially strong when they didn't live in such numerous ghetto communities that they could develop their own social/cultural microcosm and be "someone" within it.

However, I keep thinking like you: "I think both sides have to be honest and accept part of the blame". Integration does not happen essentially because people fail to interact and mix extensively (not genetically, I mean mixed, non-segregated social environments). If people of different ethnic backgrounds don't meet a lot (outside their work hours), well... then they'll remain as people of different ethnicities.

In the case of Europe it seems both the natives and the immigrants didn't (don't) do a lot to make that happen, not just willingly, but also through social and economic dynamics that, along the years, lead to a sense of displacement (we vs. the others) as well as increased social/economic segregation (and thereby also ethnic segregation, because those things are correlated in the first generations of immigrants, usually poorer than the rest).

 

[bicicleur 2]

Doesn't the fact that they live in impoverished neighborhoods where natives don't want to even step in, and are mostly poor people without a good job and income, at least partly explain why they act and think like that, especially when the native vs. immigrant ethnic segregation is so starkingly visible? I don't think there's nothing worse for a young mind than to be not just poor, unprivileged and undereducated, but also visibly so, because there is, in their social environment, a huge probability that people who look like them and dwell in neighborhoods like theirs are "poor, unprivileged and undereducated". The power of stigmatization and the anger that may come from that is reinforced by that sense of being visibly different from other people, especially if you never formed strong social bonds with people who look like the natives, so that they are still the "strangers", "the others" to you and your family.

what alternative do you propose?
these immigrants are poor when they arrive and don't have proper skills for a decent job
and they tend to flock together

and as I told before, those living in the ghetto's are a minority, most of them eventualy succeed,
but some will never learn

 

[bicicleur 2]

Maybe mass-migration cannot be stopped and must run its course.
When resources run low, or are depleted, we humans are driven to move, and seek better places and opportunities. Out of our perspective, of what we consider necessity, we could become belligerent.
It’s always been like that. Everywhere and at all times.
Example:
The Americas after 1492 (The Natives were replaced by pretty much everybody).
And, ... Slowly, the G-Men were almost all “replaced” by the massive migration of the R1b-Men.
It can happen again anywhere, in Europe too.
The Ratio of the Population Diversity has increased rapidly in last few years at the expense of the locals.
The Majorities could become the Minorities, it has already happened to California, and a similar trends is underway in more States too.

you should study African demographics

the African population is exploding right now, and the population is growing much faster than the African economies
if nothing will be done against this, the problem will not be solved, even if Europe would absorb more immigrants than physically possible
migration is not the solution
African economies have to grow faster and population slower

 

[bigsnake49]

I have no problem with compulsory language and civics lessons for both children and adults. You need to speak the local language in order to function in host's society. If you want to speak Greek to your Greek friends in New York or Chicago or Dallas no problem but don't expect to never need to speak English because you live in the local ghetto. Permanent residence permits and naturalization papers should come with local language competency exams. If you want to practice your religion no problem unless your church or temple or other place of worship preaches hate against other people or religions. Welfare should be used sparingly and only to bootstrap. Both Europe and America are guilty of generous welfare benefits that sometimes serve as disincentive to work. I have no problem with some measures that drug test welfare beneficiaries or require them to be looking for work or be in training or volunteering.

 

[bigsnake49]

I agree completely with everything you said. Now things are different and, as far as integration and assimilation are concerned, much more difficult. TV, smartphones, internet, international travel, better access to imports - advanced technology as a whole makes it now so much easier to avoid integration.

Some immigrants in the past were also recalcitrant against anything resembling total assimilation in their new homeland, but ultimately if not them then their children would become totally assimilated, because the other option was to simply be totally excluded from everything that makes one's living more than utterly boring and lame. Especially for youngsters the prospect of not fitting in any "group/tribe and being shut off from trendy things and entertainments is terrible - so, "let's get assimilated". People got assimilated "naturally" not just because they usually had to coexist with people unlike them and their parents, but also because they wanted to have access to the amenities of life available only in the language and cultural ways of the majority in the country. I suspect that necessity was especially strong when they didn't live in such numerous ghetto communities that they could develop their own social/cultural microcosm and be "someone" within it.

However, I keep thinking like you: "I think both sides have to be honest and accept part of the blame". Integration does not happen essentially because people fail to interact and mix extensively (not genetically, I mean mixed, non-segregated social environments). If people of different ethnic backgrounds don't meet a lot (outside their work hours), well... then they'll remain as people of different ethnicities.

In the case of Europe it seems both the natives and the immigrants didn't (don't) do a lot to make that happen, not just willingly, but also through social and economic dynamics that, along the years, lead to a sense of displacement (we vs. the others) as well as increased social/economic segregation (and thereby also ethnic segregation, because those things are correlated in the first generations of immigrants, usually poorer than the rest).

Anti-immigrant sentiment is not necessarily racially based. Irish, Italians, Greeks, Poles, etc were discriminated against in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Asian immigrants have done very well in the US in the late 20th century. So have the South Americans that integrated quickly and chose professions or trades. Unspecialized, general work does not pay well and the more money you make the more easily you integrate. Speaking the local language helps you get more plumbing work and helps you advance in your career.

 

[bigsnake49]

what alternative do you propose?
these immigrants are poor when they arrive and don't have proper skills for a decent job
and they tend to flock together

and as I told before, those living in the ghetto's are a minority, most of them eventualy succeed,
but some will never learn

Tell that to the people in the ghettos of Paris.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Tell that to the people in the ghettos of Paris.

do you mean ghettos or tentcamps ?

 

[paul333]

Trouble is we are moving to a mass automotive/Robotic manufacturing based society, supported with, and using artificial Intelligence. Employment will be decreasing as technology develops. There will be difficulties with maintaining employment,in most developed countries now, and It will be virtually impossible and impractible to receive thousands of more immigrants, it will only serve to cause friction,de-stabilisation, and will seriously damage the existing way of life for most European Countries, the evidence of this is now being seen.

In Great Britain we developed NHS and Welfare, systems to help the 'British' populations after the second world war, to offer security and a decent standard of living for every family of the UK, this has been overwhelmed, and abused by millions of people who it was never intended to support.

The NHS and the Welfare system are both in crisis, as the majority of its finances are spent on consultants from around the world,it is one of the biggest rip off machines ever developed, for most of them. Agency fees are also another cancer eating into it. These two systems were developed and placed there to serve and reward the British people and their families,who had suffered so much defending freedom and a way of life during 1939-45, so that no British person or family, would ever again starve or suffer extreme hardship.

They are now global attractions, that are being abused and destroyed by thousands of immigrants, and foreign nationals taking advantage and exploiting every aspect of what was built to support the British indigenous populations, and standard of living.

Put these together, and you see the demise of a once great nation, that is struggling so hard to stay afloat, and survive. Drastic measures have to be taken soon, otherwise the UK as it was/is, will soon sink and disappear forever, and sadly it is also looking to be the same, for many other European Countries, including Denmark.

 

[Messier 67]

Why don't the Danes let the Muslims know how they really feel about Islam and just mandate the eating of pork by all Muslims three times a day and ban burqas and prayer mats.

NYC has the same issue with Hasidic Jews. They are anti-social, only hanging out with other jews. They use the welfare programs. And they have their own sub-culture. Force the Hasidic jews to read the Gospels three times a day, take away their children to learn about the writings of St. Paul, force them to eat pork, ban hasidic jewish outfits and other customs deemed anti-social. Hasidic jews don't seem to be assimilating. Come on, equality for all. What about homeschoolers in the Midwest. What about those kids...

My Italian Grandmother spoke broken english her whole life and lived in the states. Here associates and friends were only family members. Was that a crime... The same is true for Irish immgrants, Polish immigrants. And they "mournfully" went to Catholic services, like how many viewed these Muslims attend Mosques.

Are we headed for another nazis Germany with picking on a minority group. This time, Muslims. For the far right will love these illegal and immoral statutes being created by the Danes.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Why don't the Danes let the Muslims know how they really feel about Islam and just mandate the eating of pork by all Muslims three times a day and ban burqas and prayer mats.

NYC has the same issue with Hasidic Jews. They are anti-social, only hanging out with other jews. They use the welfare programs. And they have their own sub-culture. Force the Hasidic jews to read the Gospels three times a day, take away their children to learn about the writings of St. Paul, force them to eat pork, ban hasidic jewish outfits and other customs deemed anti-social. Hasidic jews don't seem to be assimilating. Come on, equality for all. What about homeschoolers in the Midwest. What about those kids...

My Italian Grandmother spoke broken english her whole life and lived in the states. Here associates and friends were only family members. Was that a crime... The same is true for Irish immgrants, Polish immigrants. And they "mournfully" went to Catholic services, like how many viewed these Muslims attend Mosques.

Are we headed for another nazis Germany with picking on a minority group. This time, Muslims. For the far right will love these illegal and immoral statutes being created by the Danes.

this is 21st century
women have their own rights today
to make their own decisions and to devellop their own talents

I don't think you'd like your daughter to live like your grandmother
and in these 'ghetto's' it's far worse

and refering to nazi Germany is grotesque,
you're insulting your own intelligence

 

[Messier 67]

In the States, the Muslims are the most American, hard working class of immigrants. If you like conservatism and tradition, they will preserve the American culture and society better than the rest. They are not falling for neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism like the average joe is in the States. Which preaches endless wars for endless corporate profits. This migrant crisis is a symptom of these endless wars in the Middle East that neo-libs and neo-cons love so much.

Muslim neighborhoods in the states are among the safest in the inner cities, they revive inner cities. They are good and kind to their Christian neighbors. They are most like Italian and Balkan immigrants of the early 20th Century in values.

I am not falling for this generic hatred of Muslim and Mexican immigrants that is sweeping the Europe and the States, respectively. Liberals hate them because their women behave like conservative Christian grandmothers in Bulgaria, wearing a headscarf and never worked but let their husbands work. The far right hates them because they hate foreigners in general.

Those are their main offenses, which are not offenses. And like other poor, they take advantage of programs for the poor. Mexicans are hated here because they are a burden to the schools and "government benefits".

 

[Angela]

In the States, the Muslims are the most American, hard working class of immigrants. If you like conservatism and tradition, they will preserve the American culture and society better than the rest. They are not falling for neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism like the average joe is in the States. Which preaches endless wars for endless corporate profits. This migrant crisis is a symptom of these endless wars in the Middle East that neo-libs and neo-cons love so much.

Muslim neighborhoods in the states are among the safest in the inner cities, they revive inner cities. They are good and kind to their Christian neighbors. They are most like Italian and Balkan immigrants of the early 20th Century in values.

I am not falling for this generic hatred of Muslim and Mexican immigrants that is sweeping the Europe and the States, respectively. Liberals hate them because their women behave like conservative Christian grandmothers in Bulgaria, wearing a headscarf and never worked but let their husbands work. The far right hates them because they hate foreigners in general.

Those are their main offenses, which are not offenses. And like other poor, they take advantage of programs for the poor. Mexicans are hated here because they are a burden to the schools and "government benefits".

I don't know what America you live in, or your ancestry, but this is complete hyperbole.

If you were talking about the Christian Middle Easterners, whether Lebanese or Palestinian, I might agree with you. I've worked on charities for them and know these communities pretty well.

A sizeable chunk of the Muslim community here believes that SHARIA law should be imposed. Where are you living that you didn't read about those surveys and interviews in mosques? You think that would go over well with Bulgarian grandmothers or Greek ones or anywhere else in Europe? Or how about honor killings, and female circumcision, for which doctors have been persecuted?

Please. You can disagree with enforced day care and language instruction but distorting the reality in the other direction is unhelpful.

 

[Messier 67]

I visit a Muslim family monthly. And their neighbors all love them. Best residents on the block. Most involved in family, community and country.

Do you remember how Italian immigrants could fix anything for neighbors and banded together. This Muslim family fixes stuff for the neighbors, they all share food.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I visit a Muslim family monthly. And their neighbors all love them. Best residents on the block. Most involved in family, community and country.

Do you remember how Italian immigrants could fix anything for neighbors and banded together. This Muslim family fixes stuff for the neighbors, they all share food.

nobody said there are no good, hardworking Muslims
I told twice above that those Muslims in these 'ghetto's' that don't integrate are a minority amongst the immigants
but they do exist

and there is worse
there are Whahabi imams in Europe sponsered and paid by the Saudi government to teach an extremist form of Islam
most of them are identified by now and expelled or being expelled though

there has been an almost criminal naïvity toward Islam in Europe for the last few decades
and that naïvity came from mostly leftist politicians that were in power during that period

 

[Messier 67]

(mainly Muslim) Refugees revitalize American cities

The Obama administration’s decision to bring in 110,000 refugees next year, a small percentage of the overall immigration the United States will see from around the world, will benefit America in significant ways.


Refugee resettlement has played a valuable role in revitalizing towns and cities that have declined and stagnated economically. Contrary to anti-refugee rhetoric that shuns and maligns, refugees contribute to job growth, our economy, and our lives.


But Somalis saw a chance to open businesses in a town that had declined since the 1970s with the loss of the mill industry. Restaurants and shops took root in the decaying town center that residents referred to as “the combat zone.” It’s taken hard work and cooperative spirit, but Somalis today are integrated, and some, like Zamzam Mohamud, whom the mayor appointed to the school board, have become icons of community engagement. Crime has gone down, according to the police chief. A few years after Somalis began arriving, Inc. magazine named Lewiston one of the best places to do business in America.


This is not a unique story. St Louis has one of the largest Bosnian refugee populations in the country, many of them Muslims. They began arriving two decades ago and rebuilt their lives and brought prosperity. A local bank took a chance early on, providing loans to buy houses, invest in properties, and open restaurants, bakeries, repair shops, trucking businesses, and cleaning companies. Bosnian entrepreneurship has created jobs and opportunities for other Americans as well. The population of some 70,000 is credited with bolstering sagging school enrollment, invigorating the city center, revitalizing neighborhoods, and stabilizing the city’s decline.


Bosnians in Utica, N.Y., along with Somalis, Burmese, and other refugees stemmed the tide of population decline there and have contributed to such a high degree that the mayor of Utica continues to welcome refugees, including Syrians. A PBS NewsHour report highlights that “Utica’s commitment to resettle refugees isn’t purely humanitarian — its open-door policy is also a pioneering economic tool for revitalizing the Rust Belt.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...ican-cities/7Xe7PX6JbRq4sfE8D4pNyJ/story.html

I was speaking with a resident who said he wishes the whole city becomes Somali refugees because of what they did to the neighborhood of Little Italy. Little Italy was no longer Italian, the Italians fled to the suburbs because the neighborhood was no longer safe, crime rampant. But with the influx of Somali Muslims, the streets became much safer and it is a relatively safe neighborhood once again. We need more of these Somali migrants to help out other neighborhoods, they take care of their property, crime drops and businesses move in.