Turks and Greeks are same

[XipeTotek]

Turkey Turks and Greeks so much similar with genetic and hablogroups.

Turkish :



Greek :



Turkey Turks come from same ancestors with greeks. they are similar culture and genetic. only language and religion is different i think.

Today Turkey Turks come from Lidya, Hittites, Byzantium, Rome, Ottoman peoples of anatolia. and some mixed of asian peoples.

but some regions are different.



mediterranean sea area of turkey close to semitic peoples.

eastern anatolia and kurds mixed and close to persian and semitic.

anatolia is still anatolian with j2 hablogroup and close to greeks.

this is remember to me anatolian history still contunie with same events only names are different lol

 

[Angela]

The only meaningful comparison would be one based on autosomal results. Even then it's tangled, because western Turks are different from eastern Turks, Kurds etc. Then add in all the Turks descended from Balkan Muslims who relocated to Turkey.

On PCAs Greeks and Turks certainly don't overlap the way that Greeks and Southern Italians/Sicilians do, for example.

 

[Ygorcs]

Turkey Turks and Greeks so much similar with genetic and hablogroups.

Turkish :

View attachment 10327

Greek :

View attachment 10330

Turkey Turks come from same ancestors with greeks. they are similar culture and genetic. only language and religion is different i think.

Today Turkey Turks come from Lidya, Hittites, Byzantium, Rome, Ottoman peoples of anatolia. and some mixed of asian peoples.

but some regions are different.

View attachment 10328

mediterranean sea area of turkey close to semitic peoples.

eastern anatolia and kurds mixed and close to persian and semitic.

anatolia is still anatolian with j2 hablogroup and close to greeks.

this is remember to me anatolian history still contunie with same events only names are different lol

These are just Y-DNA haplogroups. Good evidence, excellent indication of past population movements, but very insufficient to analyze the genetic structure of any people and to make comparisons between them and other populations. We can say that Greece and Turkey are indeed very related to each other (even autosomally), but they aren't that close that one could say they're "the same" or even strikingly similar. Western & Northwestern Turks are probably close enough to be regarded as a "sibling people", but they are still clearly distinguishable from Greeks autosomally (and even the exact proportions and diversity of Y-DNA haplogroups differ in a nationwide perspective). People really need to understand that Y-DNA haplogroups are very cool, and nicely memorized and discussed, but they're still just a small part of the complete puzzle.

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

The only meaningful comparison would be one based on autosomal results. Even then it's tangled, because western Turks are different from eastern Turks, Kurds etc. Then add in all the Turks descended from Balkan Muslims who relocated to Turkey.

On PCAs Greeks and Turks certainly don't overlap the way that Greeks and Southern Italians/Sicilians do, for example.

one paper I read in this forum says that DNA of Greeks in Southern Italy and Sicily is not recognizable from the rest of Southern Italy. only Arbereshe have clearly Balkans DNA. So how is Greece overlapping with Southern Italy? I don't agree Turkey and Greece are very similar. Turkey has a lot of central Asian, Indian, middle Eastern, African genes. In total those genes could be 50 percent. Greeks dont have these genes in noticeable percentages

 

[davef]

I guess it would be western turkey that has some relations with Greece since its close geographically. Not saying those Turks are the same, and I bet as you go further east, the relationship will diminish.

 

[Angela]

one paper I read in this forum says that DNA of Greeks in Southern Italy and Sicily is not recognizable from the rest of Southern Italy. only Arbereshe have clearly Balkans DNA. So how is Greece overlapping with Southern Italy? I don't agree Turkey and Greece are very similar. Turkey has a lot of central Asian, Indian, middle Eastern, African genes. In total those genes could be 50 percent. Greeks dont have these genes in noticeable percentages

Excuse me?

That isn't where to go for proof, because those Greek speaking Italians have been there so long that they are very mixed. The Arbereshe have been there for a much shorter period, and the ones who still identify as Arbereshe are the ones who haven't yet fully integrated into the larger community. There's been a lot of admixture. I know a lot of people here in the U.S. who are part Arbereshe. The reason some of them have been able to retain their separate culture is because Italy has been very tolerant of them and their differences, including their different religion and language.

I suggest reading papers which are on point before pulling opinions out of the ether.

For example, see this paper on Greek genetics.

"Genetics of the peloponnesean populations andthe theory of extinction of the medievalpeloponnesean Greeks"
George Stamatoyannopoulos*et al

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718.pdf

[/IMG]

A very sizeable proportion of the Greek colonies came from the Peloponnesus.

Most PCAs don't show it as much because the vast majority of the Greek samples in those studies are from Northern Greece, and that group is east and south of Tuscans, so probably closer to the Abruzzese perhaps.

You know, you really shouldn't get your opinions from the likes of people like Sikeliot. He's not what we call an "honest broker". He has an agenda, so nothing he writes is objective or to be relied upon. Plus, anything more complicated than Admixture runs and gedmatch is mathematically beyond him, and even Admixture he doesn't understand.

 

[ihype02]

^I am not really sure how you get along with Sikeliot. But from what I have seen he tends to claim that Sicilians are Greeker than Greeks.

 

[ihype02]

TSI is an Italian population. But which region?

 

[Salento]

TSI is an Italian population. But which region?

Usually: TSI Toscani in Italia. (I know that the image has Tuscans too.).
Maybe 2 Tuscans Population samples.

Some Population abbreviations:
ASW, people with African ancestry in Southwest United States;
CEU, Utah residents with ancestry from Northern and Western Europe;
CHB, Han Chinese in Beijing, China;
CHS, Han Chinese South, China;
CLM, Colombians in Medellin, Colombia;
FIN, Finnish in Finland;
GBR, British from England and Scotland, UK;
IBS, Iberian populations in Spain;
LWK, Luhya in Webuye, Kenya;
JPT, Japanese in Tokyo, Japan;
MXL, people with Mexican ancestry in Los Angeles, California;
PUR, Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico;
TSI, Toscani in Italia;
YRI, Yoruba in Ibadan, Nigeria.


Ancestry-based groups: AFR, African; AMR, Americas; EAS, East Asian; EUR, European.

Also Greeks and Turks are NOT the same.

 

[Jovialis]

https://www.coriell.org/0/Sections/Support/NHGRI/ToscaniStatement.aspx?PgId=395

This is a statement from the participants that were sampled for TSI.

 

[Jovialis]

Excuse me?

That isn't where to go for proof, because those Greek speaking Italians have been there so long that they are very mixed. The Arbereshe have been there for a much shorter period, and the ones who still identify as Arbereshe are the ones who haven't yet fully integrated into the larger community. There's been a lot of admixture. I know a lot of people here in the U.S. who are part Arbereshe. The reason some of them have been able to retain their separate culture is because Italy has been very tolerant of them and their differences, including their different religion and language.

I suggest reading papers which are on point before pulling opinions out of the ether.

For example, see this paper on Greek genetics.

"Genetics of the peloponnesean populations andthe theory of extinction of the medievalpeloponnesean Greeks"
George Stamatoyannopoulos*et al

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718.pdf

[/IMG]

A very sizeable proportion of the Greek colonies came from the Peloponnesus.

Most PCAs don't show it as much because the vast majority of the Greek samples in those studies are from Northern Greece, and that group is east and south of Tuscans, so probably closer to the Abruzzese perhaps.

You know, you really shouldn't get your opinions from the likes of people like Sikeliot. He's not what we call an "honest broker". He has an agenda, so nothing he writes is objective or to be relied upon. Plus, anything more complicated than Admixture runs and gedmatch is mathematically beyond him, and even Admixture he doesn't understand.

Indeed, for example the founders of the city of Taras, (later Taranto) were from Sparta.

 

[Pax Augusta]

TSI is an Italian population. But which region?

Self reported Italians who have at least 3 out of 4 grandparents born in Tuscany. So they are Tuscans but not all are most likely fully Tuscan.

Usually: TSI Toscani in Italia. (I know that the image has Tuscans too.)

EDITED: ..... There are a lot of Tuscan samples available from the academic world, given the fascination with them, but in this calculator, he uses the HGDP sample of 11 people and the Metspalu sample of 22 people, all from a small village near Firenze, called the TSI sample. (The results for the two are very similar) ........

There are only two Tuscan sample available: HGDP and TSI. But the latter is often considered as a generic Italian sample likely because is not based on people who are 4/4 Tuscan.

The HGDP sample of 11 people you're referrering to is Bergamo HGDP (they are 13, actually). The Metspalu sample is not in this study (and yes, anyway it's a subset of TSI).

Italians (the violet square) in that PCA are north Italians from 13 individuals from Bergamo HGDP sample. Very often the Bergamo HGDP in peer reviewed studies, much more in the past than recently, and even in some Gedmatch's tool (see for example Harappa) is labeled as "Italian". Tuscan HGDP sample is composed of 8 people, not 11, and in the PCA is the one with the blue cross. Not all the individuals are visible, because they are hidden by other samples.

Therefore tn that PCA there are 13 Italians (north Italians from Bergamo HGDP), 10 Venetians (from an unpublished paper about Crete), 8 Tuscan HGDP, 107 TSI, 28 Sardinians HGDP, 20 Sicilians (from Paschou 2014), and 238 Peloponnesians (from Stamatoyannopoulos 2017).

I understand why Angela published the PCA, and certainly yes, the Greeks and the Turks are not the same thing, not even genetically, but I still harbour certain reservations about the complete accuracy of George Stamatoyannopoulos's study

 

[Pax Augusta]

I guess it would be western turkey that has some relations with Greece since its close geographically. Not saying those Turks are the same, and I bet as you go further east, the relationship will diminish.

I have yet to see an in-depth study of the Turkish population, but there is likely an enormous internal diversity in Turkey.

 

[Lenab]

one paper I read in this forum says that DNA of Greeks in Southern Italy and Sicily is not recognizable from the rest of Southern Italy. only Arbereshe have clearly Balkans DNA. So how is Greece overlapping with Southern Italy? I don't agree Turkey and Greece are very similar. Turkey has a lot of central Asian, Indian, middle Eastern, African genes. In total those genes could be 50 percent. Greeks dont have these genes in noticeable percentages

Isn't such a thing genes are based on spontaneity. Arbershe are usually Tosks, they would match up with Tuscany, racially most of those are renegades and were placed there and they are not native Italians like Ghegs are not native North Greeks there is a common relation based on intermarriage when they immigrated out of the Caucasus and some of those Albanians still have Near Eastern origin even they aren't even related to South Europeans genetically.

Notice I said some, not all, some Albanians have native West Balkan dna.

 

[Lenab]

I guess it would be western turkey that has some relations with Greece since its close geographically. Not saying those Turks are the same, and I bet as you go further east, the relationship will diminish.

There are two concepts to this, the one's who are mostly Christian would almost certainly be Greek, either Pontian or Mycenaean/Ionian others would be immigrants from Balkans converts to Islam in which case they wouldn't be just Greek but any country Turks went to in fact most are Bosnians and converted Serbs not Greeks the Turks in Turkey apart from Polmaks are actually still Christian.

But most West Turks cluster within the Caucasus spectrum similar to Armenians and Georgians they would just be Caucasian if you understand what I mean. If they were indigenous Western Turks. Actually if anything they descend from the Hittites I think Armenians claim this too or at least partially related. Giving them the Near Eastern /Anatolian/Levantine input as well as the Balkan one.

 

[Lenab]

I have yet to see an in-depth study of the Turkish population, but there is likely an enormous internal diversity in Turkey.

I am being totally honest, trying to sort out Turkey racially would be like trying to sort out Brazil.

 

[Nik]

Isn't such a thing genes are based on spontaneity. Arbershe are usually Tosks, they would match up with Tuscany, racially most of those are renegades and were placed there and they are not native Italians like Ghegs are not native North Greeks there is a common relation based on intermarriage when they immigrated out of the Caucasus and some of those Albanians still have Near Eastern origin even they aren't even related to South Europeans genetically.

Notice I said some, not all, some Albanians have native West Balkan dna.

Migrated out of Caucasus? lol Why don't you just delete your account and find yourself another hobby? Which Albanians have Near Eastern origin exactly?

Not related to South Europeans? How about Albanians being one of the most genetically South European people in Europe? Did you know that?

Some have West Balkan? How about 80-90%?

And No, Turks and Greeks are different. Even Turks from Istanbul are different from Greeks.

 

[Angela]

Isn't such a thing genes are based on spontaneity. Arbershe are usually Tosks, they would match up with Tuscany, racially most of those are renegades and were placed there and they are not native Italians like Ghegs are not native North Greeks there is a common relation based on intermarriage when they immigrated out of the Caucasus and some of those Albanians still have Near Eastern origin even they aren't even related to South Europeans genetically.

Notice I said some, not all, some Albanians have native West Balkan dna.

Every time you post such stupid, a-scientific, racist crap just to start trouble and provoke controversy, you're going to get an infraction. Am I clear?

 

[Wanderer]

Lydians aristicracy came from decendants of hercules

 

[Govan]

The only meaningful comparison would be one based on autosomal results. Even then it's tangled, because western Turks are different from eastern Turks, Kurds etc. Then add in all the Turks descended from Balkan Muslims who relocated to Turkey.

On PCAs Greeks and Turks certainly don't overlap the way that Greeks and Southern Italians/Sicilians do, for example.

People use the same rethoric with North Africa , to prove a fake gene flow barrier between North Africa and Iberia. The recent Neolithic paper killed it funny. Not only there is as high as 40% Iberian Neolithic related
ancestry in North Africa , but even significant Iberian Bell beaker ancestry. One Guanche woman shows even 30% Bell Beaker. Turks are eastern shifted because of Central Asian Turkic admixture obviously. The Greek speaking ancestors of Turks were as close to Myceneans as the current Slavicized Greeks. Never any fake gene flow barrier. Lots of gene flows between Anatolia and all of Southeastern Europe going both ways