Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 76 to 83 of 83

Thread: The Atlantic Megalith cultures were R1b.

  1. #76
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-07-18
    Posts
    52
    Points
    211
    Level
    2
    Points: 211, Level: 2
    Level completed: 61%, Points required for next Level: 39
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Northern European
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    What's frustrating is how you arrived at this conclusion without evidence.
    Based on the EVIDENCE, the Mediterranean Neolithic was spread initially by G2a, followed by local adaptation of European I2 men. R1b-V88 may have been restricted to central Europe and the Balkans.

    Also, don't lump in nuraghics with the practice of erecting dolmens. Maybe castles should fall into this same grouping? /sarcasm off The nuraghic practice in Sardinia is quite late and already involved metalworking and the central European Bell Beaker was already in full spread. Those men are candidates for R1b.

    If we're strictly talking of the early European farmers, they were G2a based on evidence, and local I2 men adapted these practices. R1b-V88 does fit in somehow but appears to be a little more complex.
    I reached my conclusion after reading a Eupedia article saying there was no G2a found from the Megalithic Culture. Yes, it was foolish of me to rush head in, but from seeing this I assumed we hadn't found very much at all. After all, why would they make such a claim if they admit to no evidence? Of course there is evidence, but I took what I read as full truth and went with that.

  2. #77
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-07-18
    Posts
    52
    Points
    211
    Level
    2
    Points: 211, Level: 2
    Level completed: 61%, Points required for next Level: 39
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Northern European
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    People have given you several papers to read and tried to guide you in the right direction, but your refusal to accept new information has left you ignorant. Within the last two years a paper came out on the Iberian Neolithic and its spread to Britain, this is a good candidate for the spread of your "Atlantic Megalithism". (unfortunately I don't recall the authors, but I'm certain it can be easily sourced) It demonstrated that the earliest stages of the Iberian Neolithic were G2a on the male side, and they absorbed local WHG (European hunter gatherer) admixture over time. During the middle and later stages, the YDNA was predominantly I2 (M223, M26, M423..etc). During this period of local adaptation, they spread northwards into France and Britain. Why did local male lines die out? (A good question I am also seeking to know as well)As you can see, most French and all British neolithic males are I2 derived.

    In terms of M269+, represented by 99% of European R1b males, it is not found until the post-Neolithic period in west-central Europe. Prior periods show R1b-L754, V88, and M269-, and are largely confined to central or eastern Europe.
    What in the world are you talking about? I'm well aware now that I2 and G2a were predominant, with the former moreso than the latter. Also, no, I was not granted papers but rather guides towards potential sources, which I took gratefully. I was shown to a post which claimed to have valid results, and I just wanted to know where it came from. We'd be foolish if we accepted everything handed to us with no questions. Doesn't mean I thought there were any falsehoods, but rather that I wanted to know the context of the find, as you can never have too much of that.

  3. #78
    Baron Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    19-05-12
    Posts
    268
    Points
    5,854
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,854, Level: 22
    Level completed: 61%, Points required for next Level: 196
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Lehwos View Post
    I reached my conclusion after reading a Eupedia article saying there was no G2a found from the Megalithic Culture. Yes, it was foolish of me to rush head in, but from seeing this I assumed we hadn't found very much at all. After all, why would they make such a claim if they admit to no evidence? Of course there is evidence, but I took what I read as full truth and went with that.
    In 2018, we still don't have an answer why G2a levels dropped so drastically though. This appears to be the case in LBK, but also apparently in the Iberian Neolithic with a reflux of local I2 lineages. The mtDNA shows continuity.

  4. #79
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    30-08-17
    Posts
    176
    Points
    3,422
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,422, Level: 16
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    BB is linked with megalithism in Majorca, Sardinia, and Basque Country.......
    No, in Sardinia the megaliths predate the arrival of Bell beakers by several centuries, the first dolmen and menhir date to at least 3300 bc whereas beaker pottery doesn't appear in Sardinia before 2100 bc
    Dolmen at Luras 3500-2700 bc

    Menhir at Villa Sant'Antionio 3200-2850 bc

    Monte Baranta 2700 bc


    The menhirs at Sorgono date back to 3300 bc

    Sa Covecada, 2900 bc

  5. #80
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,307
    Points
    279,553
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,553, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Some people just aren't ready for primetime. People should have enough sense not to go posting theories when they haven't educated themselves, and that means READING THE APPROPRIATE papers.

    Even after all the requests, I don't see any indication that's been done.

    Continuing to engage arguments of that calibre might wind up confusing newbies into thinking there's some intellectual worth to them.

    I strongly suggest that such posts be ignored.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  6. #81
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Moi-même's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-16
    Location
    Quebec City
    Posts
    96
    Points
    3,592
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,592, Level: 17
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 258
    Overall activity: 0%

    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a1

    Ethnic group
    French Canadian
    Country: Canada-Quebec



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    In 2018, we still don't have an answer why G2a levels dropped so drastically though. This appears to be the case in LBK, but also apparently in the Iberian Neolithic with a reflux of local I2 lineages. The mtDNA shows continuity.
    My take would be men are more dependent of their fathers' lifestyle and women more dependent of their husbands' lifestyle. Let take a bloodless, monogamous, consensual sex, without epidemics, without competition for land scenario, as family friendly as it could have been.

    Weather get bad in Europe, a village of 100 families of farmers barely manage to keep their number from one generation to the next, with an average of 1 son and 1 daughter per family. Pushed by the same bad weathers, 10 families of herders come by and find some poor land farmers didn't find suitable for their crops. They settle there, the farmer welcome these new neighbors, on who they could rely on in times of need. To seal their new friendship, all the herders daughters and sons and to marry farmer kids. The herders' live stock fare well and they manage to have on average 2 sons and 2 daughters. For then on, herders and farmers will only marry between themselves.

    At first generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 10 herder families

    On second generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 20 herder families

    On third generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 40 herder families

    On fourth generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 80 herder families

    On fifth generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 160 herder families

    On sixth generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 320 herder families

    On seventh generation we have:
    100 farmer families and 640 herder families

    After 150 years, the weather finally get better, farmers now have 1,5 son and 1,5 daughter on average. On the farmer's end they now have crowded the best land for livestock and can only get 1,5 son and 1,5 daughter on average. Their numbers will now rise together. Herders' Y-DNA moved from a small 9% minority to a 86% majority. Farmers' Y-DNA passed from 91% to 14% even though their number stay the same for 150 years. On the mt-DNA side, since the first generation of herders marry exclusively farmer girls, all their descendants have farmers' mt-DNA. Also, most of 90% of the original families of farmers had farmers' mt-DNA, so 86% + 12% = 98% of this population is now farmers and only 2% are herders.

    It took 6 generations with this family friendly model, but add epidemics, land competition, polygamy, negative population growth, massacres and you can get the same result in a one to three generations.

    I would guess the R1b men's lifestyle was more successful at first and gave them an advantage early on which the locals could only equal after a few generations. That difference wasn't as significant when they entered Southern Europe, maybe the climate wasn't to their advantage or the local population was too dense and the new comers couldn't catch up their numbers.

  7. #82
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class3 months registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-07-18
    Posts
    52
    Points
    211
    Level
    2
    Points: 211, Level: 2
    Level completed: 61%, Points required for next Level: 39
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Northern European
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Some people just aren't ready for primetime. People should have enough sense not to go posting theories when they haven't educated themselves, and that means READING THE APPROPRIATE papers.

    Even after all the requests, I don't see any indication that's been done.

    Continuing to engage arguments of that calibre might wind up confusing newbies into thinking there's some intellectual worth to them.

    I strongly suggest that such posts be ignored.
    Honestly I didn't want or believe I would get nearly as much attention as I have on this post. If anything, I put it here to test myself on these sort of matters, and I have learned a good deal from it. I'll be sure to better vent my ideas in the future.

    However, I would like to remind you again that this thread was created after reading this:

    "Most of these regions (except central Europe) were already somehwat linked to each others as members of the Megalithic culture, which evolved from the Early Neolithic cultures. Although no Megalithic Y-DNA has been tested yet, Megalithic mtDNA from Brittany is a typical blend of Mesolithic (U5b) and Neolithic (K1a, N1a, X2) lineages, in direct continuity of the Cardium Pottery and Linear Pottery cultures. Consequently, Megalithic people were predominantly G2a people, with minorities of I2a1a, E1b1b and perhaps also J or T."

    found here: https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/spa...ugal_dna.shtml

    The site claimed that no Y-DNA was tested, and yet claims that G2a was dominant, which I found to be ridiculous, were they to be telling the truth.

    Ironically, I made this thread originally because I found what I thought was to be a claim with no evidence.

  8. #83
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,307
    Points
    279,553
    Level
    100
    Points: 279,553, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The questions have been asked and answered. Nothing remains but to read and COMPREHEND the papers.

    The thread is now closed.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •