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Thread: R1b and the Gutians and Kassites

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    R1b and the Gutians and Kassites

    It's come to my attention how dense R1b-Z2103 is in southern Kurdistan by the Zagros mountains. This region is known to be the homeland of the pale-skinned Gutian people, who were prominent between the 25th and 22nd centuries BC. They often warred with the Mesopotamian cultures to their south and west and for a time ruled over their civilized neighbors, being described as barbaric by them.

    It seems likely to me that they were of European origin and simply didn't mix with the locals as much as their later counterparts in Anatolia and eastern Iran, or perhaps just found a relatively empty land and so kept themselves separate that way.

    The Gutians might well also be the forefathers or relatives of the Kassites, who invaded and ruled over Babylon from 1600-1155 BC, as they both share a homeland in the Zagros mountains, and both came to prominence by ruling civilized peoples in the Fertile Crescent rather than building powerful civilizations all their own.

    I think R1b-Z2103 might also be shared by the Mitanni, as it seems denser in Syria than would be attributable to the Hittites, who more or less held the region in tribute rather than settling there.

    Of course now the modern people of the Zagros Mountains will not resemble their ancestors to much, after millennia of rule by Medians, Arabs, and Persians, but it is interesting to think about where their roots might lie.

    What do you think? If you have any information to bring feel free to do so.

    My apologies to those who read this earlier and took from it that I was suggesting that they were Indo-European. I hadn't really realized what I'd said until I looked back and this has been fixed.

    While I think that they are likely genetically linked to IE, this is all just a proposition put forward for investigation or reinforcement, and the classification is more a linguistic one anyway.

    It is interesting, though, that one W. B. Henning suggests that they have lexical similarity with the Tocharians and thus might be linked with the IE languages, but this is just speculation at this point.

    Last edited by Lehwos; 22-07-18 at 01:08.

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    Yet Subratu were probably IEs so also some R clade could they bear.

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    Not only Guti, kasites even today R1b is generously represented in northern Mesopotamia, asia minor so they were important group from very early on in this region.

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    Not sure why you got disliked OP, that Z2103 hotspot around the Zagros is probably Gutian and actually pretty important in putting at least an L23 homeland in West Asia

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