Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul?

  1. #1
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,368
    Points
    146,683
    Level
    100
    Points: 146,683, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.

    When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul?

    Abstract

    Anatomically modern humans (Homo sapiens, AMH) began spreading across Eurasia from Africa and adjacent Southwest Asia about 50,000–55,000 years ago (ca. 50–55 ka). Some have argued that human genetic, fossil, and archaeological data indicate one or more prior dispersals, possibly as early as 120 ka. A recently reported age estimate of 65 ka for Madjedbebe, an archaeological site in northern Sahul (Pleistocene Australia–New Guinea), if correct, offers what might be the strongest support yet presented for a pre–55-ka African AMH exodus. We review evidence for AMH arrival on an arc spanning South China through Sahul and then evaluate data from Madjedbebe. We find that an age estimate of >50 ka for this site is unlikely to be valid. While AMH may have moved far beyond Africa well before 50–55 ka, data from the region of interest offered in support of this idea are not compelling.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/07/31/1808385115

    https://phys.org/news/2018-08-aborig...aign=item-menu

  2. #2
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,512
    Points
    52,863
    Level
    71
    Points: 52,863, Level: 71
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 1,187
    Overall activity: 51.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    is the full text available?

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,368
    Points
    146,683
    Level
    100
    Points: 146,683, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    is the full text available?
    Unfortunately, it was behind a paywall. But I included a link to a phys.org article on it.

  4. #4
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,512
    Points
    52,863
    Level
    71
    Points: 52,863, Level: 71
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 1,187
    Overall activity: 51.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    1 members found this post helpful.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Faya

    Although no human fossils have been found at Jebel Faya, Armitage and others have argued that the Assemblage C artifacts, dated to 125,000 years BP, were produced by anatomically modern humans (AMH). This is because Assemblage C resembles contemporary east and northeast African technology more than the technology found at sites elsewhere on the Arabian peninsula.[1] As a result, the evidence at Jebel Faya has been used to support the idea of an early dispersal of AMH from the Horn of Africa across southern Arabia and into southern Asia.[11]

    IMO they were modern humans.
    And some of their ofspring made it to Sahul.
    But they were a dead end.
    Almost all of their DNA went extinct,
    except, maybe they were Basal Eurasians.
    The 65 ka shoreline of Sahul is now drowned by the sea and most people then lived along the shoreline.
    It isn't so hard to understand.

  5. #5
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran50000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,512
    Points
    52,863
    Level
    71
    Points: 52,863, Level: 71
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 1,187
    Overall activity: 51.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Unfortunately, it was behind a paywall. But I included a link to a phys.org article on it.
    their argument against 65 ka Madjedbebe is the extent to which this contrasts with the sudden wave of archaeological sites that sweep across Australia shortly after 50,000 years ago

    I recall that the 65 ka dating was done thouroughly and scientifically

    but maybe it bothers those who claim the aboriginees descent from the first arrivals in Sahul, which would not be the case as their Y-DNA clades are only 45 ka old

  6. #6
    Banned Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Parafarne's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-04-17
    Age
    35
    Posts
    96
    Points
    1,550
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,550, Level: 10
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 300
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Eurasian

    Ethnic group
    Caucasian
    Country: Afghanistan



    IMO origin of humans must be Southeast asia or Central Asia because the genetic variety is much in these areas too - in africa you find only hg E nothing else! I dont know why scientist stick to this Africa theory, if chinese came from indochina indians came from indochina europeans were in siberia in 25000 bc natives came from indochina then why Africa theory weighs more? and nobody knows how they decide hg genealgies yet very much so there should be more studies.
    Last edited by Parafarne; 30-08-18 at 15:40.

  7. #7
    Banned Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Parafarne's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-04-17
    Age
    35
    Posts
    96
    Points
    1,550
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,550, Level: 10
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 300
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Eurasian

    Ethnic group
    Caucasian
    Country: Afghanistan



    For instance if mutations for fair skin be taken as bases for diffrentiating between haplogroups then everything comes into good order yet I dont know why scientists take the current SNP mutations as bases to make the current hg genealogies?

  8. #8
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,506
    Points
    357,979
    Level
    100
    Points: 357,979, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^No, there isn't only hap "E" in Africa, there's A and B. Haplogroups have nothing to do with pigmentation snps. That's autosomal information. Otherwise, we wouldn't have black R1b people in Africa and white E1b1b1 and Q people in Europe.

    I suggest you read some more.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  9. #9
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    770
    Points
    8,180
    Level
    27
    Points: 8,180, Level: 27
    Level completed: 5%, Points required for next Level: 570
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    ^^No, there isn't only hap "E" in Africa, there's A and B. Haplogroups have nothing to do with pigmentation snps. That's autosomal information. Otherwise, we wouldn't have black R1b people in Africa and white E1b1b1 and Q people in Europe.

    I suggest you read some more.

    A and B = Black

    E = Brown

    R = White

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-02-18
    Posts
    12
    Points
    1,452
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,452, Level: 10
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 98
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by holderlin View Post
    A and B = Black

    E = Brown

    R = White
    There are White and Black E as well.

    Brown B in Iran.

    Black R in Africa and India (Black in the South, Brown in the North).


    So this sort of classification of haplogroups with skin color is just wrong.

  11. #11
    Moderator Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,794
    Points
    32,804
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,804, Level: 55
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 246
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parafarne View Post
    IMO origin of humans must be Southeast asia or Central Asia because the genetic variety is much in these areas too - in africa you find only hg E nothing else! I dont know why scientist stick to this Africa theory, if chinese came from indochina indians came from indochina europeans were in siberia in 25000 bc natives came from indochina then why Africa theory weighs more? and nobody knows how they decide hg genealgies yet very much so there should be more studies.
    First of all, Africa has more than 70% of the autosomal genetic diversity of the entire humankind. You can't analyze the genetic diversity of humans based on Y-DNA haplogroups. Autosomal DNA is what really tells the difference, especially as Y-DNA haplogroups are so easily subject to "booms and busts". Besides, even the Y-DNA haplogroups of Africa highly suggest that it is, if not the only origin of humankind, certainly the most ancient continuous homeland for modern humans. E is not "just a haplogroup", and Africa actually has two other haplogroups virtually nonexistent elsewhere and which are much, much more ancient than all the present-day Y-DNA haplogroups found in Eurasia: A and B. You must look at the dates, not the number of haplogroups, because they are nothing but scientific terminology. For example, two different clades of E1b1b (not even E, I mean the much more specific E1b1b) - E-V68 and E-Z827 and are in fact as ancient as the entire R1 haplogroup (R1* + R1a + R1b). And that's just E1b1b, not E (E-M96) as a whole. Haplogroup E dates to ~65,000 kya, well before any of the Eurasian haplogroups existed even in their most basal forms. And it isn't even necessary to explore the very old and basal origins of haplogroups B (also ~65,000 kya) and A (even older in its most basal form, ~250,000 kya) commonly found in Africa.

  12. #12
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,506
    Points
    357,979
    Level
    100
    Points: 357,979, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by holderlin View Post
    A and B = Black

    E = Brown

    R = White
    Are you serious or is it some early cocktails speaking?

    Perhaps you didn't get the memos:

    R1b pastoralists from Chad:


    Richard Attenborough: something like 87% of the tested Attenboroughs carry it.



    Then of course there's all the Greeks, Albanians, other Bakanites and Italians who are E-V13. They're brown too? How about Adolph Hitler? Is he white enough for you?

    How about the E1b1b1 Grahams and Lindsays and Douglas' and Crawfords and Eliots and on and on of the Border Reiver families who carry it,or the men of Abergele in Wales?


    Did you also forget Villabruna was "brown" and R1b?

  13. #13
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,240
    Points
    12,148
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,148, Level: 33
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 502
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Napoleon's y-DNA was an "E" as well.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-05-17
    Posts
    3,211
    Points
    62,900
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,900, Level: 77
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 350
    Overall activity: 89.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul?

    Misinformation is never cool.
    Censorship is not cool either.
    That’s a dilemma. :)
    How about adding “BS” at the bottom of an obvious false post.
    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

  15. #15
    Banned Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Parafarne's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-04-17
    Age
    35
    Posts
    96
    Points
    1,550
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,550, Level: 10
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 300
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Eurasian

    Ethnic group
    Caucasian
    Country: Afghanistan



    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    First of all, Africa has more than 70% of the autosomal genetic diversity of the entire humankind. You can't analyze the genetic diversity of humans based on Y-DNA haplogroups. Autosomal DNA is what really tells the difference, especially as Y-DNA haplogroups are so easily subject to "booms and busts". Besides, even the Y-DNA haplogroups of Africa highly suggest that it is, if not the only origin of humankind, certainly the most ancient continuous homeland for modern humans. E is not "just a haplogroup", and Africa actually has two other haplogroups virtually nonexistent elsewhere and which are much, much more ancient than all the present-day Y-DNA haplogroups found in Eurasia: A and B. You must look at the dates, not the number of haplogroups, because they are nothing but scientific terminology. For example, two different clades of E1b1b (not even E, I mean the much more specific E1b1b) - E-V68 and E-Z827 and are in fact as ancient as the entire R1 haplogroup (R1* + R1a + R1b). And that's just E1b1b, not E (E-M96) as a whole. Haplogroup E dates to ~65,000 kya, well before any of the Eurasian haplogroups existed even in their most basal forms. And it isn't even necessary to explore the very old and basal origins of haplogroups B (also ~65,000 kya) and A (even older in its most basal form, ~250,000 kya) commonly found in Africa.
    But C, D were too old hgs as was hg F yet there were more mutations in GHIJK downstream so this is why you find young hgs like R1, O, N, Q when you see autosomal maps in here(Eupedia) then why african admixture is the only major one in africa and others are extremely rare so I commented based on those maps, Europe is much more diverse and in indochina you find ancestor hg of R which is very interesting too.

  16. #16
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,506
    Points
    357,979
    Level
    100
    Points: 357,979, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Misinformation is never cool.
    Censorship is not cool either.
    That’s a dilemma. :)
    How about adding “BS” at the bottom of an obvious false post.
    Sorry? I'm not aware of anyone being censored here. Calling bogus information bogus is not censorship.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-05-17
    Posts
    3,211
    Points
    62,900
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,900, Level: 77
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 350
    Overall activity: 89.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sorry? I'm not aware of anyone being censored here. Calling bogus information bogus is not censorship.
    My comment was meant to show Empathy and Support toward the Mods, when faced with inaccurate, and false posts.
    I wasn’t criticizing the Mods. :)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    04-02-18
    Posts
    114
    Points
    1,925
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,925, Level: 12
    Level completed: 25%, Points required for next Level: 225
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Connecticut



    Thank you for reminding me that I have a voice.There's always so much content provided that sharing an idea can seem more like a spec of the overall excitement and passion of just having an opportunity to belong. truth is I usually find myself more involved in the daily research that I'm always hungry for more. African Exodus and how it fits in the overall picture challenge where and when humanity begins and hopefully not ends. I've made sharing more important recently and I'm looking forward to being a part of the conversation. Thank you for helping me to still count.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •