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So what language did the people already in the levant and south levant speak when these northerners arrived ?
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And these northerers had already moved emigrated as in left the levant by the early bronze-age.........how can they have taught any language from the north
Could you for crying out loud ever get your facts straight? CHG WAS NOT BLUE-EYED.
Also, read my post # 30 second to last paragraph as to the possible origin.
As far as the following is concerned, you are completely confused:
"I mean, i've tried to say that to you or in general many times but... The problem is not where fair features appeared. The problem is that we are talking about 6000BC Levant and we make an analogy with Eastern Europe, only because IE theories. Pushing an agenda is not about finding something that nobody ever thought, its about take that information and make a parallel without something else, just too discredit that latter thing. Apparently, you, Lazaridis and many are willing to believe that if Yamnaya was Brown haired / Brown eyed or Blonde haired / Blue eyed it change completely the power of this reality, because some kind of elite ( wich one? George Soros? Lol private joke ) prefer that they were Blond Haired / Blue Eyed."
The saga of the blonde, blue-eyed Yamnaya people or more generally the Bronze Age people of places like Ukraine bringing those alleles to central and northern Europe has nothing to do with Iosif Lazaridis, or Reich, or me for that matter. That was the saga promulgated since the late 19th century by "anthropologists" and then repeated by every crack pot racist in the 20th century.
Science has falsified that explanation. It's all much more complicated than that and hasn't really been fully explained as of yet.
He simply stated how surprising it was to find blue eyes in such a high frequency in an ancient Levantine population. I'm sure hardly anyone expected a frequency this high.Lazaridis just said it in his Twitter. It's not about facts, it's about pushing an agenda. He maybe just confused the fact that CHG had genes for fair skin. The fact that Yamnaya was like Brown Haired / Brown Eyed, like Mediterranean with Fair Skin isn't an issue, why would it be? It's an issue when, in case of IE spreading languages and the potential ancestry and heritage people can get of that, Fair Skin have somehow a role to play. Why would Lazaridis make an analogy of blue eyes with Levant_Chl and Pontic Steppe Eneolithic if he didn't have himself the envy to prove the contrary.
I have to say Lazaridis virtue signaling is pretty obvious this time, he cannot longer hide that he is pushing an agenda. Now he is aknowledging in his Twitter that Gamba and Mathiesen found Anatolian Farmers with blue eyes and him Minoan with blue eyes, and he dont say that Villabruna that predate all those people had blue eyes too. Look at how many black / white mulato in europe and north america have blue eyes, because their mothers where of european descent. People where exchanging from europe - anatolia and ultimately levant, before the neolithic even exist. What's the most funny, is that all those people have too high opinion of themselves, they think they do the right thing, being open minded, being a people of the world. The day all those papers gonna be interpret by Erdogan like Turkey is the birth place of " Aryans " because those liberals scientifics tried to do a good thing to shadowing europe and empowering other places in the world ( even if the real history is more complicate ).
What??? Can you clarify what you really mean? The "Aryan" (PIE) question has virtually nothing to do with these findings ("Aryan" does not mean "people with blue eyes", it means a people with a specific language and culture), and in fact it's been years since we first knew that Anatolian_Neolithic had a significant WHG-like - but still not exactly WHG - ancestry, so if the mutation for blue eyes happened in that ancestral population that contributed to both WHG and Anatolian_Neolithic everything could be neatly explained without any need for conspiracy theories.
He simply stated how surprising it was to find blue eyes in such a high frequency in an ancient Levantine population. I'm sure hardly anyone expected a frequency this high.
if we look at the origins of blue eyes we see it is from proto-circassians.........maykop culture area
The Circassian language, also known as the Cherkess language, including West Adyghe, Kabardian Adyghe, and Ubykh, is a member of the ancient Northwest Caucasian language family.
Archaeological findings, mainly of dolmens in Northwest Caucasus region, indicate a megalithic culture in the Northwest Caucasus.[44] Around the beginning of the 4th Millennium BCE, the North West Caucasus region and western Steppes became influenced by the Maykop culture.
Is yamnaya also on the black sea or only on the caspian sea side ..........there are different options by some scholars
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http://www.circassianworld.com/circassians/who-are-they/1124-who-are-the-circassians
What all this have to do with what i said. You and me obviously knows the meaning of Aryan, of CHG, Anatolia_Nhl, but not everyone. You never fought that people could use it as a political recuperation not to valorize european culture or genetic like Nazis, but to devalorize it instead? I know exactly what i'm fighting for, i'm not interested in PIE for some ancient ethnic pride, but for history, but not every people are like this. Just look at Kurdish people who says " PIE came from Kurdistan ". If you let them have this reality, they gonna after that come with " everything europe as came from Kurdistan, so we have better, we can devalorize them ". Did you remember that Vladimir Putin in 2004 was going to Arkaim ( archeological site of Sintashta Culture ) and talked about it like a " russian pride ". Just imagine the same is do about PIE coming from Kurdistan or Turkey only because some Genetists have to virtue signaling.
I understood what you think about this problem that you perceive. What I didn't understand is your point about the remarks of Lazaridis, and why they are supposedly so misleading or even dangerous. And what do the comments about blue eyes and Chalcolithic Levant have to do with the PIE controversy? What's this association between the Levant and steppe PIE that you're talking about in your posts?
It's not like blue eyes has been demonstrated to be particularly correlated with the spread of PIE-speaking people, especially because out of dozens of Pontic-Caspian samples only a minority have blue eyes, and it's been proven that both light skin and - less so - blue eyes were already widespread before the IE expansion in many parts of Europe and West/Central Asia. In fact, blue eyes are a trait too superficial and minor to allow us to make any inferences about the origin of peoples. It can be selected for or against along the time, "artificially" increased to high frequencies by genetic drift and bottlenecks, or whatever.
wait! nobody is suggesting that T and the Iranian farmer is the responsible of the introduction of Indoeuropean into Israel? wait... no IE there? what a fun we can have with genetics uh?
50% blue eye frequency is a lot. In NE Europe blue eyes became common from much lower percentages, i wonder why the reverse happened in Levant.
These people had Anatolian farmer ancestry which includes whg-like ancestry. That whg-like ancestry is likely where the blue eyes came from.What all this have to do with what i said. You and me obviously knows the meaning of Aryan, of CHG, Anatolia_Nhl, but not everyone. You never fought that people could use it as a political recuperation not to valorize european culture or genetic like Nazis, but to devalorize it instead? I know exactly what i'm fighting for, i'm not interested in PIE for some ancient ethnic pride, but for history, but not every people are like this. Just look at Kurdish people who says " PIE came from Kurdistan ". If you let them have this reality, they gonna after that come with " everything europe as came from Kurdistan, so we have better, we can devalorize them ". Did you remember that Vladimir Putin in 2004 was going to Arkaim ( archeological site of Sintashta Culture ) and talked about it like a " russian pride ". Just imagine the same is do about PIE coming from Kurdistan or Turkey only because some Genetists have to virtue signaling.
These people had Anatolian farmer ancestry which includes whg-like ancestry. That whg-like ancestry is likely where the blue eyes came from.
Exactly what's the point? It's Lazaridis who said, Hey look Levant Chalcolithic have more Blue Eyes than Chalcolithic Eastern Europe. Then he start to talk about how some Anatolian Farmers from the Gamba and Mathiesen papers and his study about Minoan also had Blue Eyes, then he even mention CHG for whatever reason. Why? What's the analogy between Levant Chl and Eastern Europe Chl a part of saying something like " hey look near-easterners where more aryans than PIE people ". Obviously my use of the term Aryan here is purely provocative. He could have just said: Wow ancient near-easterners had blue eyes, cool. But no, he talks about eastern europe with a somehow analogy with PIE, like an attack to people believing Eastern Europe and PIE people were Blonde haired and Blue eyed. That's typically people who hide ideas or agenda, and those ideas and agenda resurface at certain points for random reasons.
Well, but if some people in 2018 still believe that PIE people were all Nordic types with blonde hair and blue eyes then I can see why a geneticist may have thought it'd be nice (or funny?) to call them out ("attack" is too strong a word frankly). I don't think the point of this comparison has two interesting observations: 1) things can change a lot in 5,000-6,000 years, so that the frequency of blue eyes in the Levant and in Eastern Europe are now almost the reverse of what they were in ~4000 BCE; 2) the traditional anthropologists and the pseudo-scientific or simply amateur/deluded racists of older generations were indeed very wrong when they believed that blue eyes and blonde hair were directly and mostly correlated with Indo-European ancestry, because there were other clearly non-IE sources for those traits. Unless blue eyes, light skin and blonde hair are somehow "more special" if they came only from Eastern Europe rather than at least partly from West Asia and from Western/Central Europe itself, I don't get what's the "big problem" in that provocation. The racists were again dead wrong. I can see why someone would find it worth commenting about.
I find it quite possible, even likely that the Afro-Asiatic linguistic component was originally absorbed by (or imposed onto) the Anatolian & Iranian ("northern") population that probably merged with Levant_Neolithic ones, hypothetically because they were highland immigrants in a more technologically advanced region or something like that. But that would've happened before the consolidation of a Proto-Semitic language and culture, before its expansion to other areas, probably still during the Late Neolithic,, and during that "gestation period" it's possible that the foreign elements eventually became dominant even before Proto-Semitic was spread elsewhere in the Fertile Crescent. I say that because I find it hard to believe that Afro-Asiatic came originally from too much north or east of the Levant, considering the distribution of the rest of the family (all other branches in Africa, some of them with possible older links to Southwest Asia, like Cushitic) and the heavy Natufian affinities in other heavily AA regions like North Africa and Egypt.
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