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Thread: 6.5 ka Levantine chalcolithic DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    Ancient Egyptians also portrayed their earlier dynasty people with blue eyes. Seeing ancient Egyptians were mostly Middle Eastern in origin, its likely the same blue eyed fair skin people migrated from Israel into Egypt:
    The ancient Egyptians' ''European'' Dynasties were sometimes made up of ancient Greeks actually or general sea peoples a blue eyed mutation has been recorded around the Black sea I suggest you look that up. All ancient Egyptians in some of those photos?

    And yes the ancient Mesopotamian ancient Egyptians were all a similar peoples from the Fertile Cresent they got obliterated during the Iron Age. But I suggest you take ''all the ancients had blue eyes '' to some kind of Nordicist BNP type website, as that's based on falsehood, sorry.

    The Indo Europeans had a specific description being blue eyed wasn't one of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Not all the middle-east is or was semetic, one needs to be more precise, apart from african areas, the semetic areas is the arabian peninsula and the levant and the levant became semetic after the Chalcolithic period.
    Anatolia, south caucasus and mostly everything north of the zargos mountains was not semetic
    proto-semetic ( apart from the horn area of africa ) was only southern arabian peninsula .
    .
    problem is that the term middle-east covers different lands for different scholars/people
    Levant became Semitic after the Iron Age everywhere in the Near East / Middle East became Semitic after the Iron Age.

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    For all the other stuff no, Near Easterners Turks Armenians Levantines whatever you want do not have significant ''North African admixture'' what they have is a significant Red Sea admixture well Levantines have it people of the Caucasus don't as much. Because they are coastal Pre Historic people and also because when the great flood of Sumer happened these people left Anatolia and the Levant and settled along the Red Sea coast which is now modern day ''Red Sea'' of Egypt they were probably most similar to the Hittites racially. I did have an article about the connection to the early Phoenicians and Hittites it must be online, somewhere.

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    This bullshit that ancient peoples of the Middle East and Egypt could not possibly have had blue eyes needs to end:

    https://www.livescience.com/63396-an...rkey-iran.html

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    EASPECIALLY FOR LENAB. Where did all the light skin, blue eyed blondes in Asia originate????

    Thats right, they ORIGINATED FROM THE INDO-EUROPEAN ANDRONOVA CULTURE:

    The Indo-Europeans migrated Europe and encountered the Blonde, blue eyed hunter - gatherers in Central Europe. The descendants of the this admixture migrated Asia

    Now you know why so many Asians have blonde hair and blue eyes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond#Asia

    Blonde blue eyed Asians originating from the INDO-EUROPEANS:

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    Ancient Egyptians originated from the LEVANT as proven by ancient DNA:

    DNA taken from 4000 year old mummy shows he was related to some Southern Europeans, Lebanese and the later Middle Eastern in origin, Abusir el Meleq mummies:

    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/htm



    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/htm

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    The first peoples to speak the Semite language were the Akkadians, who predate the Iron Age.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_Empire

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    This bullshit that ancient peoples of the Middle East and Egypt could not possibly have had blue eyes needs to end:

    https://www.livescience.com/63396-an...rkey-iran.html
    If I red well, the concerned survey speaks of 22 persons, whose 49% would have had blue eyes, spite it's said with some caution - so, yes, at some stage of history, there had been blue eyed people among the Near-Easterners. But we cannot base ourself upon this survey to affirm this percentage was common all over Near East: it would be conter-intuitive. Concerning I-Eans and "blond-blue", caution here again. It seems the regions where super-lightening of pigmentation occurred at respectable level were around Northern Ukraina (someof CWC), Central-North Europe (see GAC & SHG), before further densification of fair pigmentation all around the Eastern Baltic - the link with I-Ean was very tiny, it begun rather at the jonction of eastern Neolithic farmers and north-eastern HG's. It's only later that some I-Ean tribe became dominantly fair pigmented. And please, post adults pictures as examples, not children.
    SO I agree, but with reserve.

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    Yamnaya and Middle-East could have been " repigmented " afterwards by migrations. Typically Yamnaya had mostly Caucasian women that could have over the years lower the amount of fair features into the general population. Such case can be confirmed by the fact that Yamnaya_Samara seems not to be fair featured, while Early Samara individuals might have been fair features for some part. Prehistorc Middle-Easterners could have been mostly like Prehistoric Eastern Europeans until they got an Iranian or African input that made them more " dark ". You can see this even today with modern Europeans, that can have desactivated genes for Blue Eyes or Fair Hairs but not have it. Or having pretty dark complexion like almost Olive skin but still have the genes for fair skins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblob View Post
    EASPECIALLY FOR LENAB. Where did all the light skin, blue eyed blondes in Asia originate????

    Thats right, they ORIGINATED FROM THE INDO-EUROPEAN ANDRONOVA CULTURE:

    The Indo-Europeans migrated Europe and encountered the Blonde, blue eyed hunter - gatherers in Central Europe. The descendants of the this admixture migrated Asia

    Now you know why so many Asians have blonde hair and blue eyes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond#Asia

    Blonde blue eyed Asians originating from the INDO-EUROPEANS:
    I think the blue eye and red hair slowly happened by a collision of East and west eurasian genes. It can be explained by the genetic fact that two major genes are responsible for blue eye color: HERC2 and OCA2. And also red hair appeared for the first time in ANE AG3.
    For a long time, I have quoted russian anthropologist opinions that ancient people from mesolithic to neolithic (even iron age, now modern times of ural people) were intermediate living in the zone of east europ to the altai. Russian anthropologists still don’t know why the ancient people and modern ural people are intermediate. I think it is so simple that they were mixed with east and west gens since ANE age, being segregated and developed independently as a difference race. And their amalgamation could gradually create the blue eye and red hair in the zone from east europe to altai.
    Especially red hair genes were found in AG3 to east hunter gatherer. Scythian also had red hairs, and the highest red hair frequency zone is now in Udmurt. Thus, I think such a long time red hair could be existed from altai to east europe of intermediate people before east asian appeared in iron age.

    Now it is very important the fact of whether the WSHG had blue eyes and red hair but still no result?. There is a possibility that WSHG would enter Sumer with blue eye gene, altai words and altai wrestling culture ( or maybe recent neolithic Q1b did, becoming an ancestor of Abraham in Ur? ). We have already known that lake baikal pottery in Hottu cave and WSHG entered IVC.

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    @Johen:
    to date, I know NO pop with majority of red hairs, the maxi's being in NW Ireland, W Scotland and Udmurt - (surely because among red haired people, a lot have some other problems concerning health and this colour as a whole has not been favoured too much during history, spite the story about Ramses II and his "clan").
    I doubt WSHG would have been light pigmented for hair and eyes at a high % -
    The light pigmentation is present, not at an exclusive level, among the West Uralic and IE pops : as the features seemingly 'eastasian' increase in the pops of Urals and Siberia, the light pigmentation of eyes/hair decreases. So maybe the partly 'eastasian' or maybe undifferentiated north-eurasian (ANElike) pop knew a mutation concerning hairs, but it doesn't seem this mutation gained much ground in it. I repeat more than a mutation causes red hairs as well as blond hairs and beside this, Udmurt have more 'caucasoid' input than 'eastasian'.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    @Johen:
    to date, I know NO pop with majority of red hairs, the maxi's being in NW Ireland, W Scotland and Udmurt - (surely because among red haired people, a lot have some other problems concerning health and this colour as a whole has not been favoured too much during history, spite the story about Ramses II and his "clan").
    I doubt WSHG would have been light pigmented for hair and eyes at a high % -
    The light pigmentation is present, not at an exclusive level, among the West Uralic and IE pops : as the features seemingly 'eastasian' increase in the pops of Urals and Siberia, the light pigmentation of eyes/hair decreases. So maybe the partly 'eastasian' or maybe undifferentiated north-eurasian (ANElike) pop knew a mutation concerning hairs, but it doesn't seem this mutation gained much ground in it. I repeat more than a mutation causes red hairs as well as blond hairs and beside this, Udmurt have more 'caucasoid' input than 'eastasian'.
    Do we even have a study for Ramses 2 that confirms snp's for red hairs? The guy is dead at 91 years old with red hairs? ( Unlikely ). It shouldn't even be a real thing at this point...

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Do we even have a study for Ramses 2 that confirms snp's for red hairs? The guy is dead at 91 years old with red hairs? ( Unlikely ). It shouldn't even be a real thing at this point...
    Sense at last.


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    What I found in Wiki, whatever the genetic confirmation:
    . Professor Ceccaldi determined that: "Hair, astonishingly preserved, showed some complementary data—especially about pigmentation: Ramses II was a ginger haired 'cymnotriche leucoderma'." The description given here refers to a fair-skinned person with wavy ginger hair.[73][74] Subsequent microscopic inspection of the roots of Ramesses II's hair proved that the king's hair originally was red, which suggests that he came from a family of redheads.[75] This has more than just cosmetic significance: in ancient Egypt people with red hair were associated with the deity Set, the slayer of Osiris, and the name of Ramesses II's father, Seti I, means "follower of Seth."[76]

    Mummy of Ramesses II


    During the examination, scientific analysis revealed battle wounds, old fractures, arthritis, and poor circulation.[citation needed] Ramesses II's arthritis is believed to have made him walk with a hunched back for the last decades of his life.[77] A recent study excluded ankylosing spondylitis as a possible cause.[78] A significant hole in the pharaoh's mandible was detected. Researchers observed "an abscess by his teeth (which) was serious enough to have caused death by infection, although this cannot be determined with certainty".

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    As for his red hair:

    Indeed, no old man would have hair that color.

    "White at the time of death, and possibly auburn during life, they have been dyed a light red by the spices (henna) used in embalming...the moustache and beard are thin...The hairs are white, like those of the head and eyebrows...the skin is of earthy brown, splotched with black... the face of the mummy gives a fair idea of the face of the living king."[68][69]"

    In one sentence it says that: "
    Subsequent microscopic inspection of the roots of Ramesses II's hair proved that the king's hair originally was red, which suggests that he came from a family of redheads.[75]"

    That is a book to which I can't get access.

    It's possible, I suppose, but I'd like to see the examination done again, and I'd like to see some snps.

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    about Ramses II you say
    "It's possible, I suppose, but I'd like to see the examination done again, and I'd like to see some snps."


    I 'm tempted to have the same caution, so many affirmations have been made about ancient people's hair colour or other traits; I red some time ago (but I don't find the link again) a surely old enough anthropologic study about pharaons or other Egyptian mummies where "appeared" some diverse brown not black haired people, without genetic analysis; not impossible, not proved at the genetic level (of course); + as already said, the fact that Egypt has been ruled by more than an ethny.

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    one can google:
    ANCIENT EGYPTIAN HAIR AND WIGS
    Joann Fletcher

    But it's still non-genetic at first sight

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    one can google:
    ANCIENT EGYPTIAN HAIR AND WIGS
    Joann Fletcher

    But it's still non-genetic at first sight

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    One ancient Egyptian sample has shown red hair, as well as one ancient Jordanian sample, so I don’t see why it is so far fetched for Ramses II.

    The real clincher though is that an Egyptian god was associated with red hair, and with foreigners (the god Seth). Why would an Egyptian god be associated with redheads if redheads didn’t exist in sufficient numbers? Why were redheads sometimes burnt in ancient Egypt on the accusations of being vampires, as is on record, if they barely existed? Is it a coincidence that Ramses II and his father were both associated with the same god Seth? And is it just some kind of mistake that Ramses II was determined to have natural red hair, just like another mummy called Ginger?

    Occam’s razor leans in my favour here, there’s too much evidence, circumstantial and direct, needed to be explained away.

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    1 members found this post helpful.

    6.5 ka Levantine chalcolithic DNA

    Ramses II was ninety years old when he died.
    He was lucky to still have some hair left, He would have been Super Lucky if his hair didn’t turn gray.
    If they didn’t, Good for him, red hair or not. :)
    🕷️

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    On Wikipedia discussions i've read that:

    "
    C’est une falsification qui fut véhiculée par les pseudo-egyptologues francais avec l’aide de l’oréal.

    La momie de Ramses II a été irradier en 1977 pour la prevenir d’une décomposition due a un champignon. C’est de la

    que vient la couleur brune ou rousse, et les malins petits falsificateurs français ont voulu profiter de ca pour

    le blanchir mais c’est connu maintenant, Ramses II était bel et bien Noir.

    Des tests d’ADN ont longtemps prouves que ramses etait bel et bien noir avec des cheveux noirs. "

    Translation: " It is a falsification that was conveyed by French pseudo-egyptologists with the help of l'oreal.

    The mummy of Ramses II was irradiated in 1977 to prevent mushroom decomposition. It is

    that comes the color brown or red, and the clever little French falsifiers wanted to take advantage of that for

    to whiten it but it is known now, Ramses II was indeed Black.

    DNA tests have long proved that ramses were indeed black with black hair. "

    I didn't really found any study that shows the Blackness of Ramses II but an egyptian study from 2000's that says egyptians and not Ramses II particularly were blacks.

    Also they study few times ago that shows that ancient egyptians of the new kingdom might have been more middle-eastern than african related...

    Cannot have any conclusions right now.

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    My brother was in Egypt and he told me that there were some Nubian soldiers in Lake Nasser with very dark skin and blue eyes, but I did not worry in the least, I do not intend to die hugging an old boulder. I have seen in a documentary that that mummy had her hair dyed but still and so her hair was red in origin. On the other hand I trust L'Oreal to get the dark brown, because what sells like dark brown is black, are there people with dark brown hair in France or beyond? It is not the same dark brown as black, now I do not need it because my gray hair has been removed naturally, I do not know what has happened but they have disappeared.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    My brother was in Egypt and he told me that there were some Nubian soldiers in Lake Nasser with very dark skin and blue eyes, but I did not worry in the least, I do not intend to die hugging an old boulder. I have seen in a documentary that that mummy had her hair dyed but still and so her hair was red in origin. On the other hand I trust L'Oreal to get the dark brown, because what sells like dark brown is black, are there people with dark brown hair in France or beyond? It is not the same dark brown as black, now I do not need it because my gray hair has been removed naturally, I do not know what has happened but they have disappeared.
    I'm not sure about your point, but i'm Swiss with Dark Brown Hair.

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    fynny posts sometimes!
    @ToBeOrNotToBe:
    I never deny the possibility of red hairs for Ramses II and I attached some "authorized" opinions, except genetic analysis -
    @Halfalp:
    the opinion of these gies about "black" Egyptians doesn't weight too much: so much complexes of inferiority!
    Indeed, I doubt frankly Ramses II would have been 'black' in the sense of SAA: his bony features (skull and face at least) don't evocate any typical 'negroid' type: rather some 'mediterranean' subtype; you can lookat nasal profile, lack of strong prog=nathy, jaw form - his skin colour?: I ignore it todate! If we can find these features in SAA pops it would be among some groups of Eastern Africans (Nubie, Soudan, Ethiopia), among whom they come from the Near-Eastern/Arabic inputs IMO - NO Egyptians have not been a monoblock pop allover Egypt and allover its history: according to times and places, the rulers have been of different human stocks, from pure 'caucasoids' to 'negroids', spite no typical fully 'negroid' types have been found among them, for I know. The most of them were 'caucasoid' concerning the hair form, or in a between state for others, not too far from what we can find among North Africans of current times in some regions.
    Ramses II was found with dyed hairs, which true colour was white, but blond, black and red can become white, so, where is the point of this Wiki "protester" here???
    I'm a bit tired by all these blond blue eyed lost tribes of Asia, and these 'nordic' inventors and rulers-civilisators of the world and these 'black' Greeks, Celts, Germans of Diallo and Cy, and so on...
    My decision is taken: I'll pour a small taste of whisky in a big glass to swallow the bitterness of life!

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    "of these GUYS", sorry

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