Salt of the Alps: ancient Hallstatt mine holds Bronze Age secrets

[bicicleur 2]

That’s awesome, it would be cool to find out more about the Proto-Celtic Culture. You don’t suppose the Neolithic folks had problems with getting caved in as well? It would be cool to find biodegradable Neolithic artifacts in almost mint condition. : D

it is

IMO there are 2 Celtic branches, a maritime and a continental

the maritime Celts are R1b-L21, who we know now were Bell Beaker from Central Europe who arrived in the British Isles 4.5 ka
the Atlantic Bronze Age was their climax

the Hallstatt are the continental proto-Celts
it was a period of peace and prosperity, but it started with violence, the urnfield period, and it ended in violence, the Gaulish expansion

 

[Pygmalion]

read my posts, this is what I said :

the Hallstatt brought the Iron age to central Iberia, along with antenna hilted swords and torcs

and I'm hear to discuss and learn
if I was wrong, I would have learned something, but I wasn't

it seems to me you are here not to learn but to prove you're right and somebody else is wrong

Do you really think that the Hallstat were those who brought iron to central Iberia? When the Treasure of Villena in Eastern Iberia already included iron artifacts? When there are iron knives from Portugal dated to the late bronze age? When the Syro-Palestine and Cypriot galleys (both iron-working cultures) reached Iberia since the the 13th century bc if not before? There's a significant quantity of Cypriot imports in Iberia pre-dating the Phoenicians, the Cypriots were iron workers since at least the 14th century bc, yes bronze was still prevalent bu they were iron workers who spread iron working to the Central Mediterranean. With the arrival of the Phoenicians, which were preceded by other Eastern sailors such as the Siro-Palestinians, Cypriots and probably the Philistines it is certain that iron metallurgy was practiced all over Iberia and it's more logical to conclude that it was the Levantines who introduced it, since they started mass producing iron tools and weapons by the 11th century bc if not before, not the Hallstat Celts who started experimenting with iron (note experimenting with iron, not mass producing it) only towards the 8th century bc. By the time the Celts reached Iberia not only were the Levantines mass producing iron, but iron working was well known in the Central Mediterranean as well (starting from the 13th-11th century bc), Hallstat being pioneers in iron metallurgy is a false myth.

Also, phases like Iron age I, Late bronze age III etc are purely conventional terms invented decades ago, which do not necessarily accurately reflect the technologies of the time. For instance many of the peoples who lived in the Eastern Mediterranean already practiced iron working (The Hittites are a famous examples since they were so precocious) despite living in what's been labeled as "the bronze age". It's just conventional phases established decades ago by archaeologists which are still used for simplicity.

 

[bicicleur 2]

now, you made me realy curious

cypriot iron workers 14th cent BC? did they extract the iron from iron ores? what technology did they use?
and sailors along the Iberian coasts before the Phoenicians? on a regular basis?
can you provide me with more details?

I know the Hallstatt knew iron only 8th cent BC, and they learned about it either from the Scythians in the Carpathians or from the Etruscans with whom they traded on a regular basis.
Hallstatt in Iberia is even later, 6th cent BC.
By then the Phoenicians and the Greek had already trading posts along the southern and eastern Iberian shores, for sure.

The oldest trading post I know of is Gadir dated around 800 BC.
And when the Neo-Assyrian empire expanded some Phoenician fugitives settled along the coasts near Carthagena, hence probably the Villena treasure you're alluding to.
But Carthago become a much more succesful settlement.

These are the oldest colonies in Iberia I know of.
And the Greeks joined in only around 630 BC.

Iron working and production of acceptable quality of iron from iron ores started somewhere in the 11 th century BC.
It was a long held theory that the 3.2 ka bronze age collapse was caused by invaders with iron weapons, and that the Hittites knew iron metallurgy too, but there is no proof for that and this theory is no longer accepted.

Iron age means spreading of a technology capable of producing iron of usefull quality (as an alternative for bronze) from regular iron ores (to be found in large quantities) , allowing mass production.

 

[bicicleur 2]

the Hallstatt in Iberia went much further then the Phoenicians and the Greeks, or even the non-Hallstatt Urnfields in the northeast
they penetrated into Central Iberia and also the upper Ebro and NW Iberia
they were not just traders
they transformed the whole local economy and they became the elite who controlled trade, agricultural production, cattle and extraction of ores and salt

 

[Pygmalion]

now, you made me realy curious

cypriot iron workers 14th cent BC? did they extract the iron from iron ores? what technology did they use?

I remember that the oldest iron artifacts in Cyprus date back to the 14th-13th century bc, this paper talks about 1200 bc for the introduction of iron working in Cyprus with a very rapid growth of iron metallurgy:
". In Cyprus the bronze industry remained conservative until there was a strong wave of newcomers into Cyprus about 1200 BC. At this point metallurgists started experimenting intensively with iron, culminating in a full Iron Age before the end of LCIIIB (about 1050 BC). One of several finds of LBA iron knives from excavations on Cyprus, excavated from Room 19 LCIIIB context at Enkomi by P. Dikaos, was shown to be carbonized, quench-hardened and tempered, on examination by the metallurgist E. Tholander. It had the qualities of a modern high-carbon steel. There is no evidence of similar developments anywhere else in the region until some time later (Snodgrass, 1980:341). This means that Cyprus was poised to lead the region on entry to the Iron Age. At this point, it should be said, as Doonan (1994:84) does so eloquently “.....technology, which is seen not as an external phenomenon to society but as a total social phenomenon wholly embedded within society”"

https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle/10852/40717/Leek_Master_Archaeology.pdf?sequence=1

And there's evidence that the Cypriots spread iron metallurgy to the central Mediterranean starting from at least the 13th century bc, where the earliest iron objects are often found in association with cypriot imports, the earliest iron tools found would be some iron rings from Sicily dated to the 14th century bc:

http://www.academia.edu/2061542/Met...Age_and_the_Early_Iron_Age_the_Coming_of_Iron

In the last few years new evidence has come up from Sardinia in particular, where in addition to the already known late bronze age iron objects new finds have been made: iron slags and furnaces to melt iron have been found in contexts dating to the 13th-10th century bc, proving a very early introduction of iron working, probably from Cyprus: http://www.quaderniarcheocaor.beniculturali.it/index.php/quaderni/article/view/334/196

and sailors along the Iberian coasts before the Phoenicians? on a regular basis?
can you provide me with more details?

Of course, it's hard to tell how regularly these sailors reached Iberia but some of the earliest finds from Iberia are:
1) a chocolate on white ware of likely Siro-Palestinese production from Coria del Rìo (13th century bc)
2)A cypriot base ring ware fragment from San Juan di Corìa (14th-13th century bc)
3)Two fragments of cypriot vessels and part of a container from Llanete de Los Morosfrom a Llanete de Los Moros, dated to the 13th-11th century bc
4)Some fragments of a pithos crater of debated mycenaean/cypriot/syro-palestinese production from Cuesta del Negro-Purullena, dated to the 14th century bc and found in association with Cogotas I ceramics
5)Three cypriot vases from Paterna de la Ribera, Gadir, dated to 950-850 bc
6)Five bronze bowls with parallels in Cyprus and in the Syrian-Palestinese coast from Baioes in Portugal, dated to 1100-950 bc
7)Some other bronze bowls from two funerary contexts from Nora Velha-Beja, Casa del Carpio-Toledo with parallels in Cyprus and Sardinia dated to the 10th-9th century bc
8)Cypriot and Nuragic ceramics from two different pre-phoenician contexts in Huelva dated to the 10th-9th century bc
9)A Philistine bronze bowl from Berzocana dated to the 11th century bc

I'm missing some of them such as the many metallic artifacts of either cypriot production or central mediterranean imitation dated to 11th-9th century bc such as the tripods found in Portugal, I've also omitted some of the Mycenaean fragments from Murcia dated to the 14th century bc which I can't find at the moment. Vice versa starting from at least the 11th century bc many bronze artifacts of Atlantic tradition reached the Central Mediterranean and even the Eastern Mediterranean as far as Cyprus and the Levant, for example the Altantic articulate skeward from a tomb in Amathus, Cyprus dated to 1000 bc.

 

[Angela]

I remember that the oldest iron artifacts in Cyprus date back to the 14th-13th century bc, this paper talks about 1200 bc for the introduction of iron working in Cyprus with a very rapid growth of iron metallurgy:
". In Cyprus the bronze industry remained conservative until there was a strong wave of newcomers into Cyprus about 1200 BC. At this point metallurgists started experimenting intensively with iron, culminating in a full Iron Age before the end of LCIIIB (about 1050 BC). One of several finds of LBA iron knives from excavations on Cyprus, excavated from Room 19 LCIIIB context at Enkomi by P. Dikaos, was shown to be carbonized, quench-hardened and tempered, on examination by the metallurgist E. Tholander. It had the qualities of a modern high-carbon steel. There is no evidence of similar developments anywhere else in the region until some time later (Snodgrass, 1980:341). This means that Cyprus was poised to lead the region on entry to the Iron Age. At this point, it should be said, as Doonan (1994:84) does so eloquently “.....technology, which is seen not as an external phenomenon to society but as a total social phenomenon wholly embedded within society”"

https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle/10852/40717/Leek_Master_Archaeology.pdf?sequence=1

And there's evidence that the Cypriots spread iron metallurgy to the central Mediterranean starting from at least the 13th century bc, where the earliest iron objects are often found in association with cypriot imports, the earliest iron tools found would be some iron rings from Sicily dated to the 14th century bc:

http://www.academia.edu/2061542/Met...Age_and_the_Early_Iron_Age_the_Coming_of_Iron

In the last few years new evidence has come up from Sardinia in particular, where in addition to the already known late bronze age iron objects new finds have been made: iron slags and furnaces to melt iron have been found in contexts dating to the 13th-10th century bc, proving a very early introduction of iron working, probably from Cyprus: http://www.quaderniarcheocaor.beniculturali.it/index.php/quaderni/article/view/334/196




Of course, it's hard to tell how regularly these sailors reached Iberia but some of the earliest finds from Iberia are:
1) a chocolate on white ware of likely Siro-Palestinese production from Coria del Rìo
2)A cypriot base ring ware fragment from San Juan di Corìa (14th-13th century bc)
3)Two fragments of cypriot vessels and part of a a Llanete de Los Morosfrom a Llanete de Los Moros, dated to the 13th-11th century bc
4)Some fragments of a pithos crater of debated mycenaean/cypriot/syro-palestinese production from Cuesta del Negro-Purullena, dated to the 14th century bc and found in association with Cogotas I ceramics
5)Three cypriot vases from Paterna de la Ribera, Gadir, dated to 950-850 bc
6)Five bronze bowls with parallels in Cyprus and in the Syrian-Palestinese coast from Baioes in Portugal, dated to 1100-950 bc
7)Some other bronze bowls from two funerary contexts from Nora Velha-Beja, Casa del Carpio-Toledo with parallels in Cyprus and Sardinia dated to the 10th-9th century bc
8)Cypriot and Nuragic ceramics from two different pre-phoenician contexts in Huelva dated to the 10th-9th century bc
9)A Philistine bronze bowl from Berzocana dated to the 11th century bc

I'm missing some of them such as the many metallic artifacts of either cypriot production or central mediterranean imitation dated to 11th-9th century bc such as the tripods found in Portugal, I've also omitted some of the Mycenaean fragments from Murcia dated to the 14th century bc which I can't find at the moment. Vice versa starting from at least the 11th century bc many bronze artifacts of Atlantic tradition reached the Central Mediterranean and even the Eastern Mediterranean as far as Cyprus and the Levant, for example the Altantic articulate skeward from a tomb in Amathus, Cyprus dated to 1000 bc.

Excellent post! Thank you for all this information.