What was the ethnicity(ies) of Bronze Age Lusatian culture?

В статье поставлен вопрос можно ли на основании имеющихся данных по мутациям в Y-хромосоме ДНК выявить современных потомков исторических венетов и венедов, описанных в античной литературе. Для ответа на вопрос были идентифицированы северо-евразийские, балтийские и карпатские ветви гаплогруппы R1a на основании имеющихся результатов геномного анализа (по снипам Y-хромосомы) и определения базовых (предковых) гаплотипов, проведено их географическое отнесение, и показано, что во всех балтийских, северных, карпатских ветвях гаплогруппы R1a преобладают поляки и русские, в меньшей степени немцы, еще в меньшей степени украинцы и белорусы. Полученные данные показывают, что древние венеты могли иметь гаплогруппу R1a, источниками ее могли быть балканская Адриатика, Малая Азия, Троя, гаплогруппа R1a могла попасть туда в ходе миграций с северной части восточной Европы с венедами или их предками, и наиболее вероятные потомки венетов и венедов имеют северо-европейское, балтийское или карпатское происхождение.


КиберЛенинка: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/venety-i-venedy-po-dannym-dnk-genealogii
 
В статье поставлен вопрос можно ли на основании имеющихся данных по мутациям в Y-хромосоме ДНК выявить современных потомков исторических венетов и венедов, описанных в античной литературе. Для ответа на вопрос были идентифицированы северо-евразийские, балтийские и карпатские ветви гаплогруппы R1a на основании имеющихся результатов геномного анализа (по снипам Y-хромосомы) и определения базовых (предковых) гаплотипов, проведено их географическое отнесение, и показано, что во всех балтийских, северных, карпатских ветвях гаплогруппы R1a преобладают поляки и русские, в меньшей степени немцы, еще в меньшей степени украинцы и белорусы. Полученные данные показывают, что древние венеты могли иметь гаплогруппу R1a, источниками ее могли быть балканская Адриатика, Малая Азия, Троя, гаплогруппа R1a могла попасть туда в ходе миграций с северной части восточной Европы с венедами или их предками, и наиболее вероятные потомки венетов и венедов имеют северо-европейское, балтийское или карпатское происхождение.


КиберЛенинка: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/venety-i-venedy-po-dannym-dnk-genealogii

I think only Pan-Slavic Pseudo Historians try to ascribe Venets, Veneds, and Veneths of all Europe to North-East origin. In the face of actual evidence one can reassess the situation. However, I do not see how historical Venetians of antiquity or the early middle ages are related to Proto-Slavs or even Balto-Slavs. Anything is possible of course. It seems a stretch though, especially the mention of Troy lol. Granted I used google translate so I am uncertain if the translation was butchered or not.

The discovery of M458 would show that the lineage could have spread much earlier than the Slavic tribes of the migration era(which could represent a later migration of the same stock). Slav/Sklaveni/Proto-Slav/Balto-Slav are merely new descriptions for peoples that may have gone by other names. Personally(given only Goth elite remains showed Germanic nature) I think that Balto-Slavs/Proto-Slavs were more widespread in antiquity than history would give credit.

As far as historical populations, I am of the mind that Proto-Slavs possibly draw origin/or at least relation from the Getae, whom were considered a tribe of Dacians, but not much evidence to suggest they were Dacian. Even Theophylact Simokatta believed the Sklavenoi were actually called Getae(a Greek designation) in antiquity. Though theres no way of him verifying this but it was mentioned nonetheless. Considering some Slavic archaeological finds showed similarities to Celtic, it stands to reason that Lusatians were a Balto Slavic/Proto-Slavic peoples considering influence of the Urnfield culture. Perhaps the expanding Germanic dominance in antiquity pushed Balto-Slavic/Proto-Slavs further East and South-East before the migration era. This could explain the supposed "eastern shift" that was found in a Suebi sample. Or as some theorize the Goths may have been Proto-Slavs that had a Germanic Elite.

I suppose time will tell. I very much hope they begin testing those rich samples from the battle of Tolense.
 
Question of the ethnic quality of Lusacian Culture :
I lack recent works about it but it seems the old scientists had ?ad hoc? theories, placing Lusacians of the shifting between Bronze and Iron ages among proto-Germans, proto-Slavs, Thracians, Carps (Carpo-Daces), Illyrians? broad choice !
It ?s hard to descriminate ethnies among cultures : ethnies change culture, cultures changes ethny?
To me it seems the Lusacian culture rather than the prototype of the Urnfields aspects is one aspect of the Urnfields, Urnfields born around Hungary/Austria, mixing diverse streams of culture, but with incineration which seems a recurrent trait of Late Neolithic cultures under southeastern influences. But I don?t believe in important cultures changes without some demic imput ; and more than one scholar mentions an encrease in demography : the problem is how to weight this demic input. Center Europe has been a crossroad of so numerous tribes in past ! (and to date too). But it?s not to say there has been always a complete melting of these tribes at the basic social level (even swords, tradable, showed typical geographical distribution for some time, and even when they were found almost all of them in Hungary, a central point).
Linguistically, I have pain to forget completely some phenomenons, even if some proximities can be discarded by peer examenation : the supposed devoicing and hard spiration of consonants in Rhaetian, Etruscan, Germanic, modern Hungarian compared to Finno-Ugric roots (in this late case I don?t know if these phenomenos did not occur before reaching Europe, I avow). What is maybe of some weight is some proximity in Venetic of basic words (pronouns) with Germanic and some phonologic similarities with Rhaetian. So I?m tempted to think that some linguistic phenomenons took their origin in Central Europe, for the most around Hungary, a crossroad, around the very Late Bronze/Early Iron and Hallstatt and I would discard coincidences. Spite the new mutations in High Germanic dialects compared to Low Germanic and ancient Germanic are similar but not identical, I still wonder if they would not be linked to an ancient pop of Tyrol surroundings, linked to something Etruscan-like.
So, maybe a population or Hungary or surroundings could be at the origin of the spread of a religion implying cremation, but it seems it had the support of some trade or partial colonisation, based on aspects considered then as a (material) progress ; the demography in more than a place confirms it. It is not sure this newcoming pop imposed everywhere its language, IE or not. The change has been either brutal and complete or progressive or incomplete (sometime crossed : old artefacts new burying, new artefacts, old burying ; look at Baviera : first cremations only for wives : exchanges ?), according to regions ; this last aspect discards the solution of an uniquely religious phenomenon, IMO. In Lusace territory, I think a new ethny took foot by South in S-W but it could not be a Slavic one, nor I think it was Celtic spite I believe Celts or some kind of Italics could have been the tumuli first intruders fromS-W Czechia, before Urnfields. After first change in Lusacian world (urnfields), I think the mode extended unevenly to other regions of Poland or Germany to other ethnies (and in other Europe regions the same mode). In Poland I think that in East we could have found some (proto-)satem langage from previous CWC, on the way to maybe Baltic-Slavic, not Slavic yet, whatever the tribes names. In West, I guess some proto-Germanics, and pan-Italics (Germanics show more grammatical ties with Balto-Slavic, and more deep ties too with Italics than with Celts, according to someones). Only bets before writings, if ever someones came to light.
 

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