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Thread: Germany's Far Right Never Went Away

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Come on, the self-proclaimed bourgeois right immediately rushed to the defense of the nazi mob. Migrants were chased, there were nazi salutes, calls for the murder of foreigners. They brought this on themselves.
    yes it did happen, nobody questions that
    but how big is the phenomenon?
    is it nationwide or has this more to do with hooliganism?

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    in the mean time the controversy about the genuinity of the footing with neo-nazis chasing foreigners is going on
    the oposition is already demanding Hans-Georg Maassen to resign
    why did he tell such things?
    was he so stupid to undermine his own position or does he have some genuine indications to doubt the authenticity?

    http://www.knack.be/nieuws/wereld/ho...box=1536340091

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    in the mean time the controversy about the genuinity of the footing with neo-nazis chasing foreigners is going on
    the oposition is already demanding Hans-Georg Maassen to resign
    why did he tell such things?
    was he so stupid to undermine his own position or does he have some genuine indications to doubt the authenticity?

    http://www.knack.be/nieuws/wereld/ho...box=1536340091
    If he does have any evidence he had better produce it right away. Otherwise, his injudicious and rash statement may cost him his job.

    If he didn't have any evidentiary basis for his comments, then he's either too impulsive and not in control of himself, or he's in sympathy with right wing rioters and hooligans. Either way, he would be a dangerous man for that position, and either way, if I were a German citizen, I'd want him out.

    Of course, in America, looking at our elected officials, I can barely find anyone not impulsive, injudicious, illogical, irrational, blinded by agenda or party loyalty or self interest and dishonest and glory seeking to boot, so there you go.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As to votes for the Reichstag, of course it varied year by year, but this is what it was in 1933. It would seem to support "The Guardian" author's contention that there is something different about eastern Germany.

    There is one major fallacy in your statement quoted above. It is as follows:

    The "eastern Germany" you are talking about, is now in Poland, and nearly all Germans left it.

    What is now East Germany (such as Sachsen, Mecklenburg) was not so Pro-Nazi back in 1933.

    Do you realize that during the final stages of WW2 and after WW2 Germans from East Prussia, West Pomerania, East Brandenburg and Lower Silesia fled, were evacuated or were deported / expelled to the west - and that they mostly went to West Germany (not to DDR)?

    Most of Germans who left Eastern Europe as the result of the outcome of WW2, settled in British, American and French occupation zones. So descendants of these Germans from areas which had the highest support for the Nazis in 1933, now live mostly in West Germany.

    Just like Eastern Poles from areas annexed by the Soviet Union, were deported to Western Poland (west of the 1938 border):

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...oland?p=551609



    ^^^
    This map shows why genetic studies such as Kayser 2005 were jokes. Kayser sampled Poles from LB and DS (whose ancestors lived in what is now Ukraine and Belarus before WW2), and he did not even sample Poles from WP (Wielkopolskie), who are the real Western Poles in a genetic sense.

    It can be annoying when geneticists are so ignorant about history, ethnography, etc. (often about archaeology too).

    =====

    Also between WW2 and the Fall of the Berlin Wall, thousands fled from Communist Germany to West Germany.

    So today it is all mixed, and in West Germany there live much more of "Slavic-admixed" people than back in 1900.

    If you want I can post detailed statistics, showing where in Germany did former Eastern Germans settle after 1945.

    Some people think that Germans expelled from Eastern Europe settled in Communist Germany (DDR). This is wrong. The majority went to West Germany. And if you look at migration patterns in the last 70 years, there has been a constant influx of people moving from DDR to West Germany.

    So you can find "Slavic Germans" in every region of modern Germany, not just east of the Elbe like before the World Wars.

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    Western part of Poland inhabited by Poles expelled from Ukraine/Belarus after WW2 is now the most liberal or "Pro-European" part of Poland.

    I guess we cannot blame Slavic admixture for conservative or right-wing views, after all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Couldn't quickly find data for the 1930s
    Here is data for the 1930s, two maps:




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    1 members found this post helpful.
    From what I could quickly find:

    In Czechoslovakia, "Czechoslovakia:
    Transfers of population under the Potsdam agreements lasted from January until October 1946. 1.9 million ethnic Germans were expelled to the American zone, part of what would become West Germany. More than 1 million were expelled to the Soviet zone, which later became East Germany.[106]"

    I don't know what the percentages were for places like Poland, Russia, etc.

    My point was never, despite your attempts to put words in my mouth, that there is some correlation between attraction to fascism and Slavic ancestry.

    What I had thought was a possibility is that the Germans who were under Communist totalitarian rule for so many decades, and under Prussian rule, in some instances, for centuries before that, and before that of the Teutonic Knights, might have retained political beliefs which were totally discredited in the West. Everything really isn't about genetics.

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    I saw in the news yesterday a mob of these German alt-rights throwing stones at a Jewish restaurant shouting anti Semitic slurs and other related garbage. This was in response to crimes committed by immigrants, and these crimes had nothing to do with the restaurant or the owner himself. Just seeing these people in action spitting their venom and throwing rocks at someone's business (on top of their Nazi views, the worst part about them imo) without regrets was enough to drive me mad

    note: not calling out conservatives, just idiots like those mobsters who threw the rocks at the restaurant
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    "Hitler's first electoral support came mainly from the 29% Protestant minority within Bavaria. In the May 1924 elections for the Bavarian state parliament 'most of the Volkischer vote of 17.1% came from the small town Protestant areas around Franconia'."
    Of course, but Hitler was a good Catholic, as was the Pope/Church who went along with his agenda as his intentions became clear. Hitler and the formation of the Nazis were not clear with their agenda when they were elected. The party rose to power because it was revolutionary and nationalistic, which would have certainly run a chord with a religious minority of ethnic Germans. That was not inherently evil, as initially, nobody was suggesting death of Jews, Slavs, Roma, political opponents..etc

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    4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    Of course, but Hitler was a good Catholic, as was the Pope/Church who went along with his agenda as his intentions became clear. Hitler and the formation of the Nazis were not clear with their agenda when they were elected. The party rose to power because it was revolutionary and nationalistic, which would have certainly run a chord with a religious minority of ethnic Germans. That was not inherently evil, as initially, nobody was suggesting death of Jews, Slavs, Roma, political opponents..etc
    Absolute bunk. Hitler was absolutely NOT a good Catholic. He HATED the Church all his adult life. The Nazis considered it a "Jewish" religion and wanted to return Germany to its pagan beliefs. That wasn't a new idea, either. My God, ever heard of Wagner? Where do you get this crap?

    The Pope may have been a coward and unwilling to take on the Germans too strongly given that they occupied Italy and encircled the Vatican, and also that he feared they would destroy the Church and send all Catholics to camps as well, but there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that he supported that murderous and racist ideology. In fact, the Church was responsible for saving innumerable Jews in monasteries and convents, and priests and nuns, with the tacit approval of their superiors, were involved in resistance work in France and Italy at least, if not in Germany.

    Equally asinine is any suggestion that the Nazis were not clear in their agenda from the beginning. Outright, open racists were among his earliest and most fervent followers. They also bankrolled him, along with industrialists and ex-army people. Have you never read Mein Kampf, for Christ's sake? It's insane anti-Semitism from beginning to end and it was written in 1924!

    The ideology is even older than that:

    "February 24, 1920
    Nazis outline political agenda

    The first public meeting of the Nazi party, then called the German Workers’ Party, takes place in Munich, Germany. Adolf Hitler issues a "25 Point Program" outlining the party's political agenda. The party platform embodies racism. It demands racial purity in Germany; proclaims Germany's destiny to rule over inferior races; and identifies Jews as racial enemies. Point 4 concludes that "No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the Nation."


    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-racism

    How much clearer could it be? Hitler's earliest mentor and bankroller of the Nazi party was a notorious anti-Semite, Dietrich Eckhart. Hitler was already part of anti-semitic circles when he was penniless in Vienna. It's not that it would have been hard to find them. Anti-semitism was an important part of the cultural zeitgeist in Austria and Germany since the late 1800's.

    Instead of reading modern racist tracts, pick up a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". It's still one of the best resources for the era, and it is particularly good in describing the milieu out of which Nazism arose.

    Dietrich Eckhart: He was writing anti-semitic plays in 1912.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Eckart

    Alfred Rosenberg: Executed after his trial at Nuremberg. Good riddance to an evil S.O.B.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg

    Inform yourself before you open your mouth; we don't need any more uneducated musings. Or perhaps it's just part of your agenda to spread deliberate lies. Continue it and there will be consequences.

    "Around a third of Germans were Catholic in the 1930s. The Church in Germany had spoken against the rise of Nazism, but the Catholic aligned Centre Party capitulated in 1933 and was banned. In the various 1933 elections the percentage of Catholics voting for the Nazis party was remarkably lower than the average . Nazi key ideologic Alfred Rosenberg was banned on the index of the Inquisition , presided by later pope Pius XII. Adolf Hitler and several key Nazis had been raised Catholic, but became hostile to the Church in adulthood. While Article 24 of the NSDAP party platform called for conditional toleration of Christian denominations and the 1933 Reichskonkordat treaty with the Vatican purported to guarantee religious freedom for Catholics, the Nazis were essentially hostile to Christianity and the Catholic Church faced persecution in Nazi Germany. Its press, schools and youth organisations were closed, much property confiscated and around one third of its clergy faced reprisals from authorities. Catholic lay leaders were targeted in the Night of the Long Knives purge. The Church hierarchy attempted to co-operate with the new government, but in 1937, the Papal Encyclical Mit brennender Sorge accused the government of "fundamental hostility" to the church.Among the most courageous demonstrations of opposition inside Germany were the 1941 sermons of Bishop August von Galen of Münster. Nevertheless, wrote Alan Bullock "[n]either the Catholic Church nor the Evangelical Church... as institutions, felt it possible to take up an attitude of open opposition to the regime".[1] In every country under German occupation, priests played a major part in rescuing Jews, but Catholic resistance to mistreatment of Jews in Germany was generally limited to fragmented and largely individual efforts. Mary Fulbrook wrote that when politics encroached on the church, Catholics were prepared to resist, but that the record was otherwise patchy and uneven, and that, with notable exceptions, "it seems that, for many Germans, adherence to the Christian faith proved compatible with at least passive acquiescence in, if not active support for, the Nazi dictatorship".[2]
    Catholics fought on both sides in the Second World War. Hitler's invasion of predominantly Catholic Poland ignited the conflict in 1939. Here, especially in the areas of Poland annexed to the Reich—as in other annexed regions of Slovenia and Austria—Nazi persecution of the church was intense. Many clergy were targeted for extermination. Through his links to the German Resistance, Pope Pius XII warned the Allies of the planned Nazi invasion of the Low Countries in 1940. From that year, the Nazis gathered priest-dissidents in a dedicated clergy barracks at Dachau, where 95 percent of its 2,720 inmates were Catholic (mostly Poles, and 411 Germans) and 1,034 priests died there. Expropriation of church properties surged from 1941.
    The Vatican, surrounded by Fascist Italy, was officially neutral during the war, but used diplomacy to aid victims and lobby for peace. Vatican Radio and other media spoke out against atrocities. While Nazi antisemitism embraced modern pseudo-scientific racial principles, ancient antipathies between Christianity and Judaism contributed to European antisemitism. During the Nazi era, the church rescued many thousands of Jews by issuing false documents, lobbying Axis officials, hiding them in monasteries, convents, schools and elsewhere; including in the Vatican and papal residence at Castel Gandolfo. The Pope's role during this period is contested. The Reich Security Main Office called Pius XII a "mouthpiece" of the Jews. His first encyclical, Summi Pontificatus, called the invasion of Poland an "hour of darkness", his 1942 Christmas address denounced race murders and his Mystici corporis Christi encyclical (1943) denounced the murder of the handicapped."

    This should be clear enough even for you.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Absolute bunk. Hitler was absolutely NOT a good Catholic. He HATED the Church all his adult life. The Nazis considered it a "Jewish" religion and wanted to return Germany to its pagan beliefs. That wasn't a new idea, either. My God, ever heard of Wagner? Where do you get this crap?

    The Pope may have been a coward and unwilling to take on the Germans too strongly given that they occupied Italy and encircled the Vatican, and also that he feared they would destroy the Church and send all Catholics to camps as well, but there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that he supported that murderous and racist ideology. In fact, the Church was responsible for saving innumerable Jews in monasteries and convents, and priests and nuns, with the tacit approval of their superiors, were involved in resistance work in France and Italy at least, if not in Germany.

    Equally asinine is any suggestion that the Nazis were not clear in their agenda from the beginning. Outright, open racists were among his earliest and most fervent followers. They also bankrolled him, along with industrialists and ex-army people. Have you never read Mein Kampf, for Christ's sake? It's insane anti-Semitism from beginning to end and it was written in 1924!

    The ideology is even older than that:

    "February 24, 1920
    Nazis outline political agenda

    The first public meeting of the Nazi party, then called the German Workers’ Party, takes place in Munich, Germany. Adolf Hitler issues a "25 Point Program" outlining the party's political agenda. The party platform embodies racism. It demands racial purity in Germany; proclaims Germany's destiny to rule over inferior races; and identifies Jews as racial enemies. Point 4 concludes that "No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the Nation."


    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-racism

    How much clearer could it be? Hitler's earliest mentor and bankroller of the Nazi party was a notorious anti-Semite, Dietrich Eckhart. Hitler was already part of anti-semitic circles when he was penniless in Vienna. It's not that it would have been hard to find them. Anti-semitism was an important part of the cultural zeitgeist in Austria and Germany since the late 1800's.

    Instead of reading modern racist tracts, pick up a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". It's still one of the best resources for the era, and it is particularly good in describing the milieu out of which Nazism arose.

    Dietrich Eckhart: He was writing anti-semitic plays in 1912.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Eckart

    Alfred Rosenberg: Executed after his trial at Nuremberg. Good riddance to an evil S.O.B.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg

    Inform yourself before you open your mouth; we don't need any more uneducated musings. Or perhaps it's just part of your agenda to spread deliberate lies. Continue it and there will be consequences.

    "Around a third of Germans were Catholic in the 1930s. The Church in Germany had spoken against the rise of Nazism, but the Catholic aligned Centre Party capitulated in 1933 and was banned. In the various 1933 elections the percentage of Catholics voting for the Nazis party was remarkably lower than the average . Nazi key ideologic Alfred Rosenberg was banned on the index of the Inquisition , presided by later pope Pius XII. Adolf Hitler and several key Nazis had been raised Catholic, but became hostile to the Church in adulthood. While Article 24 of the NSDAP party platform called for conditional toleration of Christian denominations and the 1933 Reichskonkordat treaty with the Vatican purported to guarantee religious freedom for Catholics, the Nazis were essentially hostile to Christianity and the Catholic Church faced persecution in Nazi Germany. Its press, schools and youth organisations were closed, much property confiscated and around one third of its clergy faced reprisals from authorities. Catholic lay leaders were targeted in the Night of the Long Knives purge. The Church hierarchy attempted to co-operate with the new government, but in 1937, the Papal Encyclical Mit brennender Sorge accused the government of "fundamental hostility" to the church.Among the most courageous demonstrations of opposition inside Germany were the 1941 sermons of Bishop August von Galen of Münster. Nevertheless, wrote Alan Bullock "[n]either the Catholic Church nor the Evangelical Church... as institutions, felt it possible to take up an attitude of open opposition to the regime".[1] In every country under German occupation, priests played a major part in rescuing Jews, but Catholic resistance to mistreatment of Jews in Germany was generally limited to fragmented and largely individual efforts. Mary Fulbrook wrote that when politics encroached on the church, Catholics were prepared to resist, but that the record was otherwise patchy and uneven, and that, with notable exceptions, "it seems that, for many Germans, adherence to the Christian faith proved compatible with at least passive acquiescence in, if not active support for, the Nazi dictatorship".[2]
    Catholics fought on both sides in the Second World War. Hitler's invasion of predominantly Catholic Poland ignited the conflict in 1939. Here, especially in the areas of Poland annexed to the Reich—as in other annexed regions of Slovenia and Austria—Nazi persecution of the church was intense. Many clergy were targeted for extermination. Through his links to the German Resistance, Pope Pius XII warned the Allies of the planned Nazi invasion of the Low Countries in 1940. From that year, the Nazis gathered priest-dissidents in a dedicated clergy barracks at Dachau, where 95 percent of its 2,720 inmates were Catholic (mostly Poles, and 411 Germans) and 1,034 priests died there. Expropriation of church properties surged from 1941.
    The Vatican, surrounded by Fascist Italy, was officially neutral during the war, but used diplomacy to aid victims and lobby for peace. Vatican Radio and other media spoke out against atrocities. While Nazi antisemitism embraced modern pseudo-scientific racial principles, ancient antipathies between Christianity and Judaism contributed to European antisemitism. During the Nazi era, the church rescued many thousands of Jews by issuing false documents, lobbying Axis officials, hiding them in monasteries, convents, schools and elsewhere; including in the Vatican and papal residence at Castel Gandolfo. The Pope's role during this period is contested. The Reich Security Main Office called Pius XII a "mouthpiece" of the Jews. His first encyclical, Summi Pontificatus, called the invasion of Poland an "hour of darkness", his 1942 Christmas address denounced race murders and his Mystici corporis Christi encyclical (1943) denounced the murder of the handicapped."

    This should be clear enough even for you.
    Thanks so much for this post. This ludicrous criticism based on sensationalist bestsellers and TV shows is such a beaten path and so unsubstantiated that I got tired of arguing about it. It seems these people never read much about the Nazi ideology, with its decidedly "non-Catholic/Papist" plans of creating a separate "Nazi Christian church" and especially their neo-pagan leanings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    Of course, but Hitler was a good Catholic, as was the Pope/Church who went along with his agenda as his intentions became clear. Hitler and the formation of the Nazis were not clear with their agenda when they were elected. The party rose to power because it was revolutionary and nationalistic, which would have certainly run a chord with a religious minority of ethnic Germans. That was not inherently evil, as initially, nobody was suggesting death of Jews, Slavs, Roma, political opponents..etc
    Oh they definitely did talk about the annihilation of political opponents, at least (communists). Even before they rose to power Nazi groups had violent conflicts with them. They also had an ideology of social engineering and darwinism that from the very beginning implied that certain races and disabled people should somehow "not procreate" and "not mix" in their society (of course that initially didn't mean necessarily genocide). Hitler was not a "good Catholic". He barely cared about Catholicism at all, had like many other Nazis a certain fascination with German paganism (a not very "good Catholic" thing), and only participated in rituals and ceremonies for political purposes, as he also did in Protestant ones.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Thanks so much for this post. This ludicrous criticism based on sensationalist bestsellers and TV shows is such a beaten path and so unsubstantiated that I got tired of arguing about it. It seems these people never read much about the Nazi ideology, with its decidedly "non-Catholic/Papist" plans of creating a separate "Nazi Christian church" and especially their neo-pagan leanings.
    I didn't even know there are documentaries spouting these absolute falsehoods, but I'm not at all surprised.

    The reason for much of this is that the general public is appallingly ignorant of actual history. The schools, even if some of these people attended them, have done a terrible job of teaching even relatively recent history. It's even worse for ancient history. I'm waiting for someone to come on here defending books by that disgrace Dan Brown or those "New Age" idiot Wicca witch people.

    Honestly, how does the world continue to function with so many stupid, uninformed people running around.

    That's not really an excuse for making such incendiary comments without having made even a rudimentary effort to educate oneself about the era and the ideology.

    There are innumerable books and tracts on the subject by REPUTABLE historians. Instead of wasting time on video games and social media, a lot of these people should pick up a BOOK once in a while, written by or after interviews with the actual people who were involved.

    I've read dozens of books on this subject and I still think that "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is excellent. A new version came out a few years ago, and I highly recommend it.

    (My daughter came home from work early, took one look at my face, and said, "Calm down, mom, it's not good for your blood pressure! :))

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I didn't even know there are documentaries spouting these absolute falsehoods, but I'm not at all surprised.

    The reason for much of this is that the general public is appallingly ignorant of actual history. The schools, even if some of these people attended them, have done a terrible job of teaching even relatively recent history. It's even worse for ancient history. I'm waiting for someone to come on here defending books by that disgrace Dan Brown or those "New Age" idiot Wicca witch people.

    Honestly, how does the world continue to function with so many stupid, uninformed people running around.

    That's not really an excuse for making such incendiary comments without having made even a rudimentary effort to educate oneself about the era and the ideology.

    There are innumerable books and tracts on the subject by REPUTABLE historians. Instead of wasting time on video games and social media, a lot of these people should pick up a BOOK once in a while, written by or after interviews with the actual people who were involved.

    I've read dozens of books on this subject and I still think that "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is excellent. A new version came out a few years ago, and I highly recommend it.

    (My daughter came home from work early, took one look at my face, and said, "Calm down, mom, it's not good for your blood pressure! :))
    unfortunately, a mediocre video game sells better than a good book nowadays
    and there are so many other brainless distractions, not to mention social media
    books are out

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    you might as well say the KKK is on the rise in the USA
    This is completely different. In the U.S., healing came from within. Change came from within. Germans had never turned around to take down the Nazis. This decision was made for them. The laws changed. It doesn't mean that people changed their minds. It means people were suddenly no longer allowed to say what they think about certain matters. And we are not talking about a rise. My argument is that people never changed other than change that was forced.

    Non-Germans tend to not see or hear this as laws prevent the vast majority of right-wing sentiments from surfacing. That doesn't mean they don't exist. And it doesn't mean that I need to be surprised when something I always knew to be hiding beneath finally erupts.

    Don't dismiss what he has been saying for years:





    It beats waiting for the next surprise.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's not rational to trash an entire people like this, and I don't care if he is German himself. No people as a whole is "without empathy". There is probably a genetic component to most traits, but other factors are involved as well. He's talking about some sort of genetic determinism if you really boil it down.

    Plus, the Germans are not one genetic monolithic bloc anyway. In fact, there's more variety than there is in a lot of other groups, as we've pointed out in other threads: East Germans are quite a bit different from southern and western Germans who are again different from northern Germans.

    I'm always leery of people who claim to know what "the majority" feel. That's no kind of real evidentiary proof. As for people turning to a strong leader when things go bad, I think that's a danger in a lot of countries. It's not particular to Germans.

    To me, he seems to be operating from emotion, not logic.

    I have repeatedly stopped people from trashing other nationalities. Germans are not going to be the exception.

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    The West is paralyzed by their focus on the guilt of WW2. However, the troublesome past of the East is communism, not fascism, which is far away in their eyes, and was a Communist hobby.

    That is why people in the East rise against migration far easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    The West is paralyzed by their focus on the guilt of WW2. However, the troublesome past of the East is communism, not fascism, which is far away in their eyes, and was a Communist hobby.

    That is why people in the East rise against migration far easier.
    I doubt East German right wingers have too many gripes with the DDR as such. Sure, the nominal internationalism is contrary to everything they believe, but this was hardly a concern in day to day life. On the oher hand there were deliberate efforts to bolster a kind of Prussianism, since East Germany would have been the bulwark against NATO in case of a war. Holocaust remembrance and research also were at best discouraged and sometimes dismissed as capitalist propaganda. Prof. Helmut Eschwege for example was one of the most prominent Holocaust researchers in Germany and he was demoted to a janitor at the university of Dresden because the SED didn't like his work

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    I knew it: either incompetence on the part of the Security Chief, or he was in cahoots with them:

    He passed along a secret report to the far right Alternative for Germany.

    Why does he still have a job?
    https://twitter.com/dw_politics/stat...74587315675136

    Returns east vs west:
    ""In east Germany, the AfD has been twice as strong as in west Germany. This shows that the voting behavior is much more volatile there and that many citizens in the east feel insecure," says Eckhard Jesse, a political scientist and one of the leading experts on extremism research in Germany. "After more than 25 years of reunification, they [still] feel like second-class citizens."The election highlighted a deep divide between Germany's east and west, following the lines of where the Iron Curtain once stood."

    ""Although Merkel herself is from the east, the frustration there is considerable," Jesse says. "People feel like they are not appreciated, particularly when compared to what they perceive as so much being done for the refugees. This strikes many as unfair when they have worked so hard for the last 27 years in East Germany. It is a feeling of being left behind."



    "
    The east, he says, has seen fewer immigrants than the west. Germans in the east "have not been used to living in a multicultural society," he says. "That is why it has been relatively easy in East Germany for the AfD to define foreigners as responsible" for economic hardship and other difficulties. "If you feel like a loser," he says, "you look for someone to blame.""

    https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/26/553698504/german-election-results-highlight-old-divides-between-east-and-west

    Some see deeper historical roots:
    "
    Stunning clarity about the West-East divide in Germany: AfD #1 in East, #4 in West. The Elbe is Germany‘s Mason-Dixon Line, but far older."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I knew it: either incompetence on the part of the Security Chief, or he was in cahoots with them:

    He passed along a secret report to the far right Alternative for Germany.

    Why does he still have a job?
    because there is no proof ?

    Hans-Georg #Maassen, president of Germany's domestic secret service, allegedly passed on sensitive data from a report to the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD). The spy chief has already faced calls to resign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    The West is paralyzed by their focus on the guilt of WW2. However, the troublesome past of the East is communism, not fascism, which is far away in their eyes, and was a Communist hobby.

    That is why people in the East rise against migration far easier.
    It sounds reasonable. But as you may have noticed, this entire thread is based on speculations. You don't know what the citizens of East Germany may have harbored or passed on. And Communism and Naziism really have not that much of a differentiation other than what the top 1 percent has decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I knew it: either incompetence on the part of the Security Chief, or he was in cahoots with them:

    He passed along a secret report to the far right Alternative for Germany.

    Why does he still have a job?
    https://twitter.com/dw_politics/stat...74587315675136

    Returns east vs west:
    ""In east Germany, the AfD has been twice as strong as in west Germany. This shows that the voting behavior is much more volatile there and that many citizens in the east feel insecure," says Eckhard Jesse, a political scientist and one of the leading experts on extremism research in Germany. "After more than 25 years of reunification, they [still] feel like second-class citizens."The election highlighted a deep divide between Germany's east and west, following the lines of where the Iron Curtain once stood."

    ""Although Merkel herself is from the east, the frustration there is considerable," Jesse says. "People feel like they are not appreciated, particularly when compared to what they perceive as so much being done for the refugees. This strikes many as unfair when they have worked so hard for the last 27 years in East Germany. It is a feeling of being left behind."



    "
    The east, he says, has seen fewer immigrants than the west. Germans in the east "have not been used to living in a multicultural society," he says. "That is why it has been relatively easy in East Germany for the AfD to define foreigners as responsible" for economic hardship and other difficulties. "If you feel like a loser," he says, "you look for someone to blame.""

    https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/26/553698504/german-election-results-highlight-old-divides-between-east-and-west

    Some see deeper historical roots:
    "
    Stunning clarity about the West-East divide in Germany: AfD #1 in East, #4 in West. The Elbe is Germany‘s Mason-Dixon Line, but far older."
    FYI, Merkel is looking to remove Hans-Georgg Maassen from office, because 'he is unfit for the job',
    but nowhere Merkel denies the allegations made by him that some of the video's may not be genuine

    he would have ties with the opposition, with AfD
    is she looking to replace him with someone who has more ties with her own party?

    I agree Hans-Georg Maassen spoke before his time, he should have been more discrete,
    but it seems to me the problem is that what he says doesn't fit with what Merkel herself told in the media

    https://www.knack.be/nieuws/wereld/m...box=1537177605

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    in the mean time the controversy about the genuinity of the footing with neo-nazis chasing foreigners is going on
    the oposition is already demanding Hans-Georg Maassen to resign
    why did he tell such things?
    was he so stupid to undermine his own position or does he have some genuine indications to doubt the authenticity?

    http://www.knack.be/nieuws/wereld/ho...box=1536340091
    that was probably because the video was coming from an antifa account called "zeckenbiss". it is also not clear what really happened before the video and what happened afterwards. so there is a reason to doubt this video. however that video isn't the main problem anymore as it seems. according to german media there is a lot more evidence for the chasing of foreigners and maassen should not have concentrated on this one video. though everyone else also concentrated on it. its a bit strange that we dont hear from the minister of saxony who said that there was no human chasing in chemnitz.
    Last edited by Ailchu; 17-09-18 at 20:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exceededminimumso.. View Post
    Interesting...a different kind of immigrant impact.

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