Afrikaner genetics redux

[Angela]

There are other dedicated threads on this topic, but Razib Khan has taken another look at it. Interesting graphs, among other things. It ties in with current discussions on other threads as to the nature of sexual attraction, how admixed populations arise if people are only attracted to their "own", etc.

See:
https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/09/12/the-genetics-of-afrikaners-again/

"The average European ancestry I got in my South African white samples, N = 12, is 93.5%. Making a composite individual, note that if someone had great-great-grandparents who were not European, they would be expected to have 6.25% non-European ancestry. That’s 4 generations back. So about 100 years. These individuals are presumably adults. Let’s say they are 25 years old. That goes back 125 years. It’s probably reasonable in a single person admixture people to suggest it was sometime in the mid to late 19th century.This seems unlikely. The evenness of admixture and balance between different groups indicates that it is older than that, and they are obtaining it from different lineages. Traditional genealogical estimates suggested in the range of 5-7.5% non-European ancestry in Afrikaners, and one study of 185 individuals showed 18% non-European mtDNA.

I will probably do some ancestry deconvolution and see if I can get a figure for the time of admixture (though the fractions here are very small, as is the sample size of the admixtured population). But the non-European ancestry of Afrikaners is uncannily similar to the non-European ancestry of the Cape Coloureds. That to me leads us to the conclusion that in the early European settler community a fair number of mixed-race women married in. Those mixed-race women who married mixed-race men helped found the Cape Coloureds."

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[halfalp]

Dont want to be cynical or whatever, but it's probably not the time to talk of afrikaaners and black south africans in the racial tensions existing nowadays in that country. Not sure that afrikaners are interested into multiculturalism genetic facts when white farmers keeps getting killed and that the government implied its karma.

 

[Angela]

Dont want to be cynical or whatever, but it's probably not the time to talk of afrikaaners and black south africans in the racial tensions existing nowadays in that country. Not sure that afrikaners are interested into multiculturalism genetic facts when white farmers keeps getting killed and that the government implied its karma.

Whether they're interested or not, it's a reality, no matter how they've tried to brush it under the carpet. They were living a lie for generations.

Violence against them is absolutely not right. However, my personal opinion is that without Mandela at the helm, things will get worse and worse for them. They're too small a minority, there's too much poverty, too much resentment from the past.

 

[halfalp]

Whether they're interested or not, it's a reality, no matter how they've tried to brush it under the carpet. They were living a lie for generations.

Thing is, discover that you have, for that exemple, African blood, doesn't make you tolerant over that reality. There is human that dont care about that, and other that care about it. I can tell you for sure that if a KKK member discover he is 1% black, he is not gonna become tolerant about it, but is gonna be extremely angry.

Violence against them is absolutely not right. However, my personal opinion is that without Mandela at the helm, things will get worse and worse for them. They're too small a minority, there's too much poverty, too much resentment from the past.

True that. Resentement is understandable, but make of that reality some kind of legitimate vengeance, wich a lot of people consider, is not.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Whether they're interested or not, it's a reality, no matter how they've tried to brush it under the carpet. They were living a lie for generations.
Violence against them is absolutely not right. However, my personal opinion is that without Mandela at the helm, things will get worse and worse for them. They're too small a minority, there's too much poverty, too much resentment from the past.

it's a pitty, but Mandela is gone, and so is his spirit
his successors are a corrupt bunch
even during his life, his ex-wife was corrupt and spreading hate and racism
racism is coming up again, and it comes from both sides
I hope the spirit of Mandela comes back, but I'm not sure of that

if things go wrong in South Africa, it is not the whites that are to blaim now,
it is the responsability of a black upper class, who I'm not sure are representing all blacks in South Africa
the black people in South Africa are still divided over many tribes
multiculturalism is far away in South Africa

how much black ancestry the Afrikaners have is the least of their problems nowadays

 

[Angela]

it's a pitty, but Mandela is gone, and so is his spirit
his successors are a corrupt bunch
even during his life, his ex-wife was corrupt and spreading hate and racism
racism is coming up again, and it comes from both sides
I hope the spirit of Mandela comes back, but I'm not sure of that

if things go wrong in South Africa, it is not the whites that are to blaim now,
it is the responsability of a black upper class, who I'm not sure are representing all blacks in South Africa
the black people in South Africa are still divided over many tribes
multiculturalism is far away in South Africa

how much black ancestry the Afrikaners have is the least of their problems nowadays

Totally agree with all of it.

 

[MHammer]

I'm not quite sure what a 6% non-white admixture would change really in terms of the politics of it all. They'd still be a distinct ethnic group with a culture very different from the black majority population.

 

[Angela]

I'm not quite sure what a 6% non-white admixture would change really in terms of the politics of it all. They'd still be a distinct ethnic group with a culture very different from the black majority population.

The point is that they fervently denied that they had ANY actual African or Asian ancestry.

The further point is that the politics of apartheid was such that supposedly ANY racially mixed person was to be grouped either with the "Bantus" or other Africans or Cape Coloureds and live as second and third class citizens.

The additional hypocritical madness was that probably because the genealogical records were there and many people knew about them, they decided not to go with genealogy, and for a long time refused to allow dna evidence, and instead went by what people "look" like. So, you went before a board of people, and if they thought you looked "white" enough, then you were classified as white, with all the privileges that entailed, and if your brother, for example, looked "less" white than you did, he might be exiled to the Coloured community.

That sounds sane to you?


Thomas Jefferson tried to be scientific about it. I think he wrote that 1/32 black and you were allowed into white society.

Unfortunately, that wasn't the rule adopted in the U.S. It was the "one drop" rule, by which, if their genealogical records had been available, they would have been "black" for all intents and purposes, blonde and blue eyed or not.

Equally insane, of course.