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Thread: Interesting hypothesis regarding the genesis of modern Albanians

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    Interesting hypothesis regarding the genesis of modern Albanians

    Hello,

    I saw a map recently of Homeric greek aegean area and I noticed that Troy had a capital named Ilium, neighbouring the Dardans in the Dardaneles. Being two houses of the ruling dynasty in Troy which would hail forth people such as Paris, and Aenea who would be the progenitor of the Romans. My qeustion is, since we have so little information of 1300–800 bce, culd it be that the same colonization by local and incoming tribes towards the west (such as indo europeans earlier, as well as etruscan and greek colonizers moving towards tuscany and neapoli respectively could have brought these local Troyan tribes to the north of aechean greece forming the bulwark of what would be known as Illyria (Ilium?) and Dardania (The Dardans and the Dardaneles in Anatolia?). I mean this is just mere speculation without any weight to it.

    When I look at E-V13 distribution maps, with my untrained mind, I see a movement of culture as well as genes flowing from the Caucasus and the Pontic steppe towards Anatolia and the Aegean, which to a minor yet considerate level reaches the whole borders of the Roman empire. My untrained guess, again, is that these movents happened somewhere 3-4k years ago.

    Then there is this thing that always amuses me. The qeleshe, white hat made of wool worn by Greek and Troyan allies during the war, seen in multiple classical statues and reliefs on vases. I remember my grandpa having lived for years in France, and returning to live back in Macedonia in his older age he would still flour (literally) his wool hat and wear it everyday. I think that is why when I see this hat in 3000 y/o art depictions I am amused. Maybe it is just a total coincidence. Or maybe it was brought/evolved in Europe with the domestication of animals. Gyges, as well as Paris both were shepherds.

    Older peoeple of Albanian origin in Macedonian villages would call their daughters in law generally and in short Reja, or eReja (New one). In the archaic Greek pantheon of gods Reja (Rhea) was the mother of gods rather than a titan or a god herself. She is supposedly the goddess of farming, fertility, harvest etc. I am brining this up because in highschool for a documentary I had to investigate some archaic pagan tradition for the "Day of the Summer", where I went to a local village in the mountains and interviewed an elder and his wife about the custom. They mentioned Reja as well as some sun festivities with feasts and guest-hoping (best I can describe it). The oldest Hellenic oracle was at Dodona, near mount Tomaros in northern Greece. However, in a book of the early 20th century by some traveling Britishman, I read similar stories of bull sacrificing at mount Tomorr in southern Albania (which coincidentally today is a center for Bektashi worship, in my opinion a cover for pagan worship under the lenient classification of certain Ottoman periods).


    Please do not flame me for not being scientifically rigorous. This is not my profession, I just would enjoy hearing your opinions.


    Tried posting links with images of art depicting my point on the Qeleshe, bull sacrifice relief with qeleshe and what looks like Hermes and Rea looking on, and pictures of art depicting Petroclus as well as Odysseus wearing qeleshe. However due to the fact I do not have 10 posts I can not post them. PM if necesary.

    Qeleshe ()

    Ancient art similarity ()

    Achilles bandaging Patroclus wearing qeleshe

    Achilles between Diomedes and Odysseus at Scyros

    Ulyses discovers Achilles disguised as a woman - Ancient mosaic of the Roman villa of La Olmeda in Pedrosa de la Vega



    Ancient sacrifice featuring the qeleshe

    Anyways, just my curiosity and wild imagination at it again.

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    Hi,

    Just a little heads up. The general consensus of non-Albanians is that Albanians must have borrowed the plis from Greeks or Latins. That of course doesn't make it true.

    I am curious since you refer to the "plis" as "qeleshe". Did you ever hear the word "plis"? In the north few would know what "qeleshe" means.

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    I have heard them both interchangeably (well, not really, I am sure they denote some difference in the hat eg round/oval or flat top). I seldom see them in the street, although rarely where I live in Macedonia, where Uscana would have been thousands of years ago. The dialect here is quite northern, akin to the Dibër region, so that surprises me that the word qeleshe is not used in the North. As a word it is quite straight forward, making it likely of proto-Albananian origin qe(was)lesh(wool). But then again where I am from we still use the word Mënia, which incidentally is the first word of the Iliad. *Puts tinfoil hat* Iliad- Ilium - Ilir. However, the most peculiar facts I have encountered in my research is the naming continuity between Troyan and Illyrian dynasties, including versions of Alket, Agron, Tehuti (Teuta?) and more I can not remember.

    For anyone interested on the sources: Check out The Argonautica. If you do indeed decide to read it, keep in mind Etruscan ethnogenesis. My guess is proto-albanians are mentioned in the section of Argonautica where some settle in Dardania, but ultimately the majority decide to continue their voyage disliking the land, before settling Central/North Italy.

    The legend of Gyges, mentioned in the Republic is also very interesting.

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