Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 26 of 32 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast
Results 626 to 650 of 782

Thread: All Iberian men were wiped out by Yamna men 4,500 years ago

  1. #626
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    How do you exactly knows what Anatolian skull is Hittite or not?

  2. #627
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Hittite crania seem to differ from other crania in the region however. Physical anthropologists used to have long-winded debates about this. There can be little doubt that a brachycephalic population invaded Anatolia in the Bronze Age.
    That's fair enough then

  3. #628
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Can anyone give me a link of social media, or university profile about Wang Rong? I cannot found anything, but unrelated homonyms. I would like an answer to why ancient Yamnaya samples were basically EHG/CHG, while in the Maikop paper some start to shows Anatolian_Neolithic. Are they founding new samples, or are they making specific papers with specific samples? Nature and all those magazines are supposed to be vulgarisation for the mass, but nothing is really explained, they just talk about f-stats, d-stats, mbuti... wich doesn't explain a lot...

    Edit: Never mind, i found Chaun-Chao Wang.

  4. #629
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    epoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    13-09-13
    Posts
    779
    Points
    10,483
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,483, Level: 30
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 67
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    I'm sure you know better than Reich and colleagues.

    I've seen several series of Hittite skulls myself.
    Hittite era skulls? Or Hittite skulls?

    EDIT: Mind you, the only Hittite era samples are from Damsgaard. The Lazaridis B.A. samples are from a jug burial site with dates ranging from 2800 BC to 2000 BC, in a place where Luwians appeared after 2000 BC. And the idea that this would be a problem for ancient DNA because the Hittites cremated their dead was dropped by Nick Patterson in the reactions at Davidski.

  5. #630
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    I cannot found anything for Hittite skulls and physical anthropolgy.

  6. #631
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,933
    Points
    256,425
    Level
    100
    Points: 256,425, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    IIRC the ~4200 BC Chalcolithic Ukraine sample analyzed in the recent (Caucasus? I don't remember well) pre-print already had a lot of the CHG admixture found in later Yamnaya, with the Yamnaya some 1,000 years later having only slighlty more CHG in relation to EHG, but no major change. So, I would say the southern influx into the steppes probably happened before that, more like Late Neolithic than Chalcolithic.
    I think that's true, but wouldn't it have to be even before that?

    The people of the western steppe had no agriculture to speak of. How could Neolithic people of the trans-Caucasus have failed to bring it with them, even if the gene flow was female mediated? Unless, perhaps it was a case of abandoning what wasn't feasible given the climate and terrain and retaining only the herding of animals?

    Even then, though, what of all those papers indicating the animals and the skills necessary came from "Old Europe", as well as the metals and the rudimentary metallurgical skills?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  7. #632
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    epoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    13-09-13
    Posts
    779
    Points
    10,483
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,483, Level: 30
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 67
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think that's true, but wouldn't it have to be even before that?

    The people of the western steppe had no agriculture to speak of. How could Neolithic people of the trans-Caucasus have failed to bring it with them, even if the gene flow was female mediated? Unless, perhaps it was a case of abandoning what wasn't feasible given the climate and terrain and retaining only the herding of animals?
    Climate, I'd say that's possible. Terrain? We're talking the richest Löss soils in the world.

    Even then, though, what of all those papers indicating the animals and the skills necessary came from "Old Europe", as well as the metals and the rudimentary metallurgical skills?
    So did several Ertebolla like cultures.

  8. #633
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    04-09-16
    Posts
    491
    Points
    1,328
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,328, Level: 9
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Country: Portugal



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Hittite crania seem to differ from other crania in the region however. Physical anthropologists used to have long-winded debates about this. There can be little doubt that a brachycephalic population invaded Anatolia in the Bronze Age.
    Markod
    Was it ALL brachy or was brachy amongst them?
    because at that period Brachy was often found.
    As an example, I remember late Neolithic Portugal Bruchner work found that something like 15% brachy and 5% ultra brachy whatever that means...
    Most pop was actually meso rather than Doly.

    Edit. Correct values.
    About 8% were Hiper- dolichocephalic, 34% Dolichocephalic,
    46% mesencephalic,
    8% Brachycephalic and
    4% ultra- Brachycephalic (*333).
    So majority were Mesencephalic

  9. #634
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    epoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    13-09-13
    Posts
    779
    Points
    10,483
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,483, Level: 30
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 67
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Hittite crania seem to differ from other crania in the region however. Physical anthropologists used to have long-winded debates about this. There can be little doubt that a brachycephalic population invaded Anatolia in the Bronze Age.
    This needs some links. I find it interesting, mind you.

  10. #635
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Mons View Post
    Markod
    Was it ALL brachy or was brachy amongst them?
    because at that period Brachy was often found.
    As an example, I remember late Neolithic Portugal Bruchner work found that something like 15% brachy and 5% ultra brachy whatever that means...
    Most pop was actually meso rather than Doly.

    Edit. Correct values.
    About 8% were Hiper- dolichocephalic, 34% Dolichocephalic,
    46% mesencephalic,
    8% Brachycephalic and
    4% ultra- Brachycephalic (*333).
    So majority were Mesencephalic
    IIRC no. It's just that a new brachycephalic element enters Anatolia at the time. Coon:

    Let us first examine what Bronze Age skeletal material there is in Asia Minor. So far, all of it comes from two sites, Alishar Hüyük, which, in its later periods, was a Hittite city, and Hissarlik, the seventh level of Which was Homer’s Troy. Both were important centers in the Bronze Age. At Alishar, fifty-three skulls have been studied, from seven archaeological periods, ranging from the earliest Copper Age, dated from between 2600 and 2300 B.C., to the Osmanli invasion.2

    Ten crania from the earliest period (two “Chalcolithic,” eight Copper Age) are uniformly Danubian in type, both metrically and morphologically. The small, high-vaulted, somewhat infantile dolicho- and mesocephalic form, with small face and mesorrhine to chamaerrhine noses, is no different from that found at roughly the same time at Anau, at Mariupol, in the Kiev Government, and in the Danube Valley, in association with Neolithic cultures. Two others, which are longer, may belong to a Megalithic or Corded variety.The unity of the early food-producing peoples on both sides of the Caucasus and Black Sea is therefore indicated, and from the racial standpoint, the Danubians could have come to central Europe from either South Russia or Anatolia, or both.

    In the second and third periods at Alishar, dated between 2300 and 1500 B.C., and called the Early Bronze Age, brachycephalic skulls appeared, and these persisted through the period of the Hittite Empire, for several centuries after 1500 B.C. The crania are large, low vaulted, and only moderately brachycephalic, with lambdoid flattening, and moderate browridges. The faces are of medium length, and narrow, although somewhat broader than those of the earlier Danubian type. The stature of the one male observed was tall, 174 cm.3

    Not all of the Hittite Empire crania are brachycephalic. A long-headed variety, which seems to have replaced or outnumbered the brachycephals by the time of the Phrygian invasions, is both longer and lower vaulted than the Danubian type of the Copper Age; it is characterized by a very prominent nasal skeleton of true Near Eastern form, with little nasion depression. Bas-relief sculptures of historic Hittites reproduce this hook-nosed, open-eyed type of countenance.

    The sequence of racial types in Asia Minor during the metal ages probably runs somewhat as follows: the earliest food-producing people were the same as those in western Turkestan and southern Russia. The latter probably came in earlier times from the highland belt of which Anatolia forms a part. Shortly before 2000 B.C., a moderately brachycephalic type, with tall stature, entered Anatolia from regions yet to be determined, followed by a low-vaulted, hawk-nosed Mediterranean form, which we have named Cappadocian,” and which is well known in the present day Near East. True Arrnenoids or Dinarics were not, apparently, common in early times.
    I think Haddon studied the Hittite skulls in more detail butI can't find the reference.

  11. #636
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think that's true, but wouldn't it have to be even before that?

    The people of the western steppe had no agriculture to speak of. How could Neolithic people of the trans-Caucasus have failed to bring it with them, even if the gene flow was female mediated? Unless, perhaps it was a case of abandoning what wasn't feasible given the climate and terrain and retaining only the herding of animals?

    Even then, though, what of all those papers indicating the animals and the skills necessary came from "Old Europe", as well as the metals and the rudimentary metallurgical skills?
    Bug-Dniester was transitional between HG and Farming, just like Lepenski Vir in the Balkans. Archeology speeks more than Archeogenetic for material facts. Balkans HG's were full of R1b, all replaced by G2a2. But were all those R1b goes? and did they knew Farming already?

  12. #637
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Hittite era skulls? Or Hittite skulls?

    EDIT: Mind you, the only Hittite era samples are from Damsgaard. The Lazaridis B.A. samples are from a jug burial site with dates ranging from 2800 BC to 2000 BC, in a place where Luwians appeared after 2000 BC. And the idea that this would be a problem for ancient DNA because the Hittites cremated their dead was dropped by Nick Patterson in the reactions at Davidski.
    I don't find the evidence published thus far very convincing either. I'm just assuming the rumors are true.

  13. #638
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    05-01-18
    Posts
    235
    Points
    2,077
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,077, Level: 12
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 73
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Irish/British
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Nobody is saying PIE was spoken before the domestication of the horse, but that the language branch it belonged to should've been brought to the steppes earlier, in the Mesolithic or Neolithic (by the way, the Neolithic in the Pontic-Caspian era is not that ancient, it's basically 5000-4500 BC). All languages come from an earlier one. PIE means just "the last unified stage of the language that gave birth to all the known daughter languages". That language must've been spoken at the latest in 4000 BC if you include Proto-Anatolian, and as late as ~3500-3200 BC if you include the other branches (Tocharian being arguably the earliest to split). But that does not mean that its origins were at that time, that's actually the time that the language started to diverge into different languages, its latest moments, not its beginnings.
    But whatever language (or languages, to be more precise) it was, it was likely not PIE. Whatever language the R1b cattle-herders brought with them onto the steppes, it wasn't PIE.

  14. #639
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think that's true, but wouldn't it have to be even before that?

    The people of the western steppe had no agriculture to speak of. How could Neolithic people of the trans-Caucasus have failed to bring it with them, even if the gene flow was female mediated? Unless, perhaps it was a case of abandoning what wasn't feasible given the climate and terrain and retaining only the herding of animals?

    Even then, though, what of all those papers indicating the animals and the skills necessary came from "Old Europe", as well as the metals and the rudimentary metallurgical skills?
    Metallurgical skills seem to always be associated with R1b-M269 people, at least at the earliest stages

  15. #640
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,933
    Points
    256,425
    Level
    100
    Points: 256,425, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Climate, I'd say that's possible. Terrain? We're talking the richest Löss soils in the world.



    So did several Ertebolla like cultures.
    If I remember my David Anthony correctly, there was some rudimentary farming only in the riverine valleys, of which there weren't many. That would likely be a combination of a constant water supply and particularly fertile soil. The tree less, dry, windswept steppe plains would not have been optimum for farming during certain weather conditions. These types of soils are very prone to wind erosion in dry periods, and the soil becomes brittle as well, so the plants can't develop the necessary root structure. That's why the American midwest and west became a "dust bowl".

    So, I would say a combination of terrain and climate.

    If there was a movement from the Caucasus all the way to the western steppe they would have had to traverse areas particularly inhospitable for farming, and indeed for their package of crops.

    That might, I suppose, explain why they lost their agricultural vocabulary.

    Does anyone know if Anatolian has words for agriculture?



    To all:
    For the thousandth time, metallurgy first appeared in the Near East. PLEASE use the search engine for the appropriate papers.

  16. #641
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If I remember my David Anthony correctly, there was some rudimentary farming only in the riverine valleys, of which there weren't many. That would likely be a combination of a constant water supply and particularly fertile soil. The tree less, dry, windswept steppe plains would not have been optimum for farming during certain weather conditions. These types of soils are very prone to wind erosion in dry periods, and the soil becomes brittle as well, so the plants can't develop the necessary root structure. That's why the American midwest and west became a "dust bowl".

    So, I would say a combination of terrain and climate.

    If there was a movement from the Caucasus all the way to the western steppe they would have had to traverse areas particularly inhospitable for farming, and indeed for their package of crops.

    That might, I suppose, explain why they lost their agricultural vocabulary.

    Does anyone know if Anatolian has words for agriculture?

    To all:
    For the thousandth time, metallurgy first appeared in the Near East. PLEASE use the search engine for the appropriate papers.
    Well you might use it yourself, because the earliest Metal Mines are from Serbia, way before anything like Kura-Araxe or Sumerians(???!!!)

  17. #642
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Well you might use it yourself, because the earliest Metal Mines are from Serbia, way before anything like Kura-Araxe or Sumerians(???!!!)
    Lol, was going to say - though it is possible lead metallurgy is West Asian in origin, the overall evidence still points to a Balkan nucleus. As I've said before, at the very least for me personally, open discussion with Angela can be difficult when she comes across either viewpoints or people (e.g. me) she doesn't like. I get infractions all the time for the silliest things, always from her.

    And to Angela: no, you can't just go ahead and give me an infraction for that as always ends up happening between us - besides, I WANT to have open discussion with you, just as I would with any other clearly reasonable person, which you clearly are.

  18. #643
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,346
    Points
    36,232
    Level
    58
    Points: 36,232, Level: 58
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 418
    Overall activity: 32.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    I have not the precise CI but based on a mean for every subcategory, it would gave a proxi of CI=75,8 (surely a bit less), so in fact dolicho-meso; these neolithic of Portugal (all of them or???) were in fact a mix of EEF and at least 20% of WHG, and apparently in Western mediterranea the most mesocephals were among the HG's descendants - at the individual level, the mean of the new southern types in Neolithic was almost everywhere 72-73... I 'll look what I can find about Hittits, but even if only an increase of CI from say 75 to 82 as a mean, if they are true Hittits, it signifies a new pops introgression - The Egyptians during the Sea People war depicted the Hittits as round headed, rather gross featured: but is this science?

  19. #644
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    epoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    13-09-13
    Posts
    779
    Points
    10,483
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,483, Level: 30
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 67
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Does anyone know if Anatolian has words for agriculture?
    I only have an Encyclopedia Brittanica refererence, for what that's worth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Brittanica
    Although the Hattian and Hurrian peoples did influence Hittite culture, their contributions to the Hittite language were mostly limited to terms for local flora, fauna, and a few other categories. Comparisons of Hittite agricultural terms and those of other Indo-European subgroups indicate that the “Anatolians” seceded from the parent group before the creation of a common agricultural nomenclature
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Anatolian-languages

  20. #645
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Lol, was going to say - though it is possible lead metallurgy is West Asian in origin. As I've said before, at the very least for me personally, open discussion with Angela can be difficult when she comes across either viewpoints or people (e.g. me) she doesn't like. I get infractions all the time for the silliest things, always from her.

    And to Angela - no, you can't just go ahead and give me an infraction for that as always ends up happening between us - besides, I WANT to have open discussion with you, just as I would with any other clearly reasonable person, which you clearly are.
    As i'm concerned, everything from Balkans > Anatolia > South Caucasus might be related by long distance trade already before the Neolithic. Who did what first into the Balkans or the Middle-East ( Metallurgy, Wagons, Wheel ), the response is probably " both ".

  21. #646
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,374
    Points
    5,949
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,949, Level: 22
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Lol, was going to say - though it is possible lead metallurgy is West Asian in origin, the overall evidence still points to a Balkan nucleus. As I've said before, at the very least for me personally, open discussion with Angela can be difficult when she comes across either viewpoints or people (e.g. me) she doesn't like. I get infractions all the time for the silliest things, always from her.

    And to Angela: no, you can't just go ahead and give me an infraction for that as always ends up happening between us - besides, I WANT to have open discussion with you, just as I would with any other clearly reasonable person, which you clearly are.
    It really doesn't matter. If you have something to say, everybody or almost, will read it and juge it with their own sensibilites.

  22. #647
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    As i'm concerned, everything from Balkans > Anatolia > South Caucasus might be related by long distance trade already before the Neolithic. Who did what first into the Balkans or the Middle-East ( Metallurgy, Wagons, Wheel ), the response is probably " both ".
    Well somebody had to do it first, it clearly can't have been simultaneous. With farming, different groups seem to have learnt from one another, but with metallurgy I'm not so sure that's the case. In its earliest stages, given it involves a lot of skill and also put you at the top of the social hierarchy, it seems to be associated with migration, in my opinion at least.

  23. #648
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    It really doesn't matter. If you have something to say, everybody or almost, will read it and juge it with their own sensibilites.
    It does matter when considering Eupedia as a forum for discussion, though. And also, it clearly matters in terms of infractions - most* of the time, it is either due to forced sensitivity (i.e. "How dare you be so rude to me") or in many cases due to upset about topic of discussion (so when I would discuss topics like this, and link them to things like migration of a population that had some level of red hair, I LITERALLY got given infractions from Jovialis and Angela - Maciamo had to step in and stop them at first, not least because he himself is impartial to a bit of R1b and rufosity!)

    *EDIT: In fact, it isn't most of the time - it's ALL of the time (I've gone through my eight infractions for this year so far, and all were bogus).

  24. #649
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,346
    Points
    36,232
    Level
    58
    Points: 36,232, Level: 58
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 418
    Overall activity: 32.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    abstract (ancien typology, I know)
    Coon on ancient races of Anatolia:
    Let us first examine what Bronze Age skeletal material there is in Asia Minor. So far, all of it comes from two sites, Alishar Hyk, which, in its later periods, was a Hittite city, and Hissarlik, the seventh level of Which was Homers Troy. Both were important centers in the Bronze Age. At Alishar, fifty-three skulls have been studied, from seven archaeological periods, ranging from the earliest Copper Age, dated from between 2600 and 2300 B.C., to the Osmanli invasion.2

    Ten crania from the earliest period (two Chalcolithic, eight Copper Age) are uniformly Danubian in type, both metrically and morphologically. The small, high-vaulted, somewhat infantile dolicho- and mesocephalic form, with small face and mesorrhine to chamaerrhine noses, is no different from that found at roughly the same time at Anau, at Mariupol, in the Kiev Government, and in the Danube Valley, in association with Neolithic cultures. Two others, which are longer, may belong to a Megalithic or Corded variety.The unity of the early food-producing peoples on both sides of the Caucasus and Black Sea is therefore indicated, and from the racial standpoint, the Danubians could have come to central Europe from either South Russia or Anatolia, or both.

    In the second and third periods at Alishar, dated between 2300 and 1500 B.C., and called the Early Bronze Age, brachycephalic skulls appeared, and these persisted through the period of the Hittite Empire, for several centuries after 1500 B.C. The crania are large, low vaulted, and only moderately brachycephalic, with lambdoid flattening, and moderate browridges. The faces are of medium length, and narrow, although somewhat broader than those of the earlier Danubian type. The stature of the one male observed was tall, 174 cm.3

    Not all of the Hittite Empire crania are brachycephalic. A long-headed variety, which seems to have replaced or outnumbered the brachycephals by the time of the Phrygian invasions, is both longer and lower vaulted than the Danubian type of the Copper Age; it is characterized by a very prominent nasal skeleton of true Near Eastern form, with little nasion depression. Bas-relief sculptures of historic Hittites reproduce this hook-nosed, open-eyed type of countenance.

    The sequence of racial types in Asia Minor during the metal ages probably runs somewhat as follows: the earliest food-producing people were the same as those in western Turkestan and southern Russia. The latter probably came in earlier times from the highland belt of which Anatolia forms a part. Shortly before 2000 B.C., a moderately brachycephalic type, with tall stature, entered Anatolia from regions yet to be determined, followed by a low-vaulted, hawk-nosed Mediterranean form, which we have named Cappadocian, and which is well known in the present day Near East. True Arrnenoids or Dinarics were not, apparently, common in early times.

  25. #650
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    05-01-18
    Posts
    235
    Points
    2,077
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,077, Level: 12
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 73
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Irish/British
    Country: United States



    I think the argument is that farming/animal husbandry came from Old European farmers (Criş/Körös Culture and Cucuteni-Tripolye Culture) who had penetrated to the Dniester and was adopted by foragers occupying the river valleys. To what degree other influences/migrations came from the Caucasus is unclear. It was the domestication of the horse and the adoption of the wheel (wagons) that allowed people to develop a fully pastoral economy and move out of the river valleys and onto the steppes.

    https://www.ling.upenn.edu/~rnoyer/c...ENeolithic.pdf

Page 26 of 32 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •