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Thread: Any Ideas on R-YP5585

  1. #1
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    Any Ideas on R-YP5585

    R-Z93>YP5585 is a subclade found in a man born in India.

    The next subclade to YP5585 is YP5578 and this traces to groups of men whose common ancestry is in Yorkshire (over 100 of them to date)

    Due to suggestions from learned members of this forum and because at the time the only subclade of R1a of which I was aware was Z93, it was suggested that I was of Sarmatian ancestry.

    That had me looking all over the world from North Ossetia to Normandy for a possible Ancestor. The first of the SNP to be born in England.

    However on learning that my subclade of YP5578 (actually after testing Big Y I am four subclades down from YP5578), and learning that my DNA came to England possibly via India. I have abandoned that line of inquiry.

    Perhaps YP5585 was a Scythian who was among others who invaded the Indus Valley. Z93 is found mostly in the Brahmen caste of Indians and of course descendants of Muslim converts in Pakistan, but I have no data as to their subclades. that would be helpful.

    It seems that knowing that this or that group or person is R-Z93 positive is not telling a person looking for micro info, maybe in a macro sense of migration of peoples. yes.

    YP5585 was formed according to https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP5585/ 4700 ybp with a TMRCA of same.
    Unfortunately any other YP5585's have not joined Yfull, and I would love to know who or at least where they can be found.

    It's subclade: YP5578 on the other hand was formed 4700 ybp as well, per YFULL, but that is just an approximation. Also an approximation is it's TMRCA of 1100-500 ybp, median of 800 ybp.

    Which places it in the time frame of the returning crusaders and concurrent with the transformation of low quality English steel to high quality English steel (the ancestral name is ferror, an iron worker), concurrent with that is a YP1451, surnamed Mason an occupational name as is Ferror/Farrar.

    His English roots are also Yorkshire. He has two matches at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1451/, one from Kuwait and one from France. It is not known if the French match is a Mideast immigrant or a native frenchmen, but if, as I suggest, he is descended from a stone mason that returned to France with the
    crusaders, then it is possible that all YP5578 and subclades, that are not Indian, are descendants of Indians take captive during the Arab invasion of the Indus Valley, hauled back to the slave markets in the Levant, converted to Christianity as Hindus and other polytheists were forced to at the time. Conversion to Islam was virtually impossible during that era as it was considered an Arab only religion.

    The crusaders on entering the Levant were like kids in a candy shop, awed by the advanced technology, philosopy, craftsmanship in iron and stone, they took what they could, in the form of craftsmen, back to Europe and England, and concurrent with the returning crusaders English steel was upgraded in quality, and the mud, timber and wattle motte and bailey castles were being transformed into the stone castles we see today, with Pontrefact castle in Yorkshire being among the first to enjoy transformation, and Yorkshire being the home of high quality English steel, of which Sheffield in Yorkshire is a hallmark of same.

    The other possibility, and of this I am not so sure, is that YP5585 had a descendant who wound up in the tribe that Aetius the governor of Gaul, allowed to settle in Armorica (Brittany) and whose descendant wound up in the left flank (Brittons) of Williams army at Hastings, and who, after the depopulation of Northumbria (called the Harrying of the North and Northumbria includes modern Yorkshire), was used to repopulate the area as the Harrying was a virtual genocide and wiped out his tax base.

    So Indian or Sarmatian? But most assuredly Scythian.

  2. #2
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    I am the descendant of the Frenchman who was apparently YP-1451. My ancestor was Daniel Cherdron, of Sedan, France, b. ca. 1591.

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