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Thread: Poland-Middle Neolithic to the Bronze Age

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    Poland-Middle Neolithic to the Bronze Age

    bicicleur

    A genomic Neolithic time transect of hun
    Ancient DNA genome-wide analyses of Neolithic individuals from central and southern Europe indicate an overall population turnover pattern in which migrating farmers from Anatolia and the Near East largely replaced autochthonous Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. However, the genetic history of the Neolithic transition in areas lying north of the European Neolithic core region involved different levels of admixture with hunter-gatherers. Here we analyse genome-wide data of 17 individuals spanning from the Middle Neolithic to the Early Bronze Age (4300-1900 BCE) in order to assess the Neolithic transition in north-central Poland, and the local impacts of hunter-farmer contacts and Late Neolithic steppe migrations. We evaluate the influence of these on local populations and assess if and how they change through time, reporting evidence of recurrent hunter-farmer admixture over three millennia, and the co-existence of unadmixed hunter-gatherers as late as 4300 BCE. During the Late Neolithic we report the appearance of steppe ancestry, but on a lesser scale than previously described for other central European regions, with evidence of stronger affinities to hunter-gatherers than to steppe pastoralists. These results help understand the Neolithic palaeogenomics of another central European area, Kuyavia, and highlight the complexity of population interactions during those times.


    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33067-w






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    markod

    Those CWC samples are very diverse internally, with the women pulling closer to the steppe and the men pulling closer to WHG, consistent with their I2a2 haplogroups. CWC seems to have been in serious decline a few hundred years after its explosive expansion. I wonder what caused this.

    One is also tempted to believe that the WHGs had some kind of adaptive advantage, seeing how WHG-rich groups managed to bounce back against farmers and herders so many times despite having no particularly innovations to boast of. Perhaps they were strongly selected for physical performance or cold climate resistance.



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    • halfalp
      So they basically saying in Fig 5. that Anatolian_Neolithic is in fact a fusion between WHG, Iran_Neolithic and Levant_Neolithic. Wich is very new about what i was previously thinking, especially the Iran_Neo into Anatolian_Neo. But then Poland BA and CWC we dont know then if the Levant and Iran Neolithic is just a characteristic bring by or part of Anatolian_Neolithic or if it reflect an other entity. Do this mean that actually Anatolia before the Neolithic was mainly WHG-like with an ancestry Villabruna-Dzudzuana?
    • MOESAN
      this thread is to be fused with the Bicicleur 's one about ancient Poland, in the Neolithic Chalcolithic part, I think.


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    My apologies to all the posters and especially to Bicicleur, whose thread this is, for making a mess of the merging of these two threads.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Is it possible to know the Y-DNA extracted?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Is it possible to know the Y-DNA extracted?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    AaDNA from Poland - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yg8N3s0KOEfYMg6pWKGLkUK6w_IfcKFqUrQCenXx0JQ/edit?fbclid=IwAR3f8nzCLCL4ZnprPf-XgrUqDHecVPDcbJ-OX0VarrDVFy5DHc0jKtp2jqU#gid=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    More interesting to me is to understand how the transition from the BA to the IA and beyond happened. Specifically, how did the population in Poland go from around 25-30% Iran_Neolithic/CHG-minority admixture during the Corded Ware period to around 3% nowadays?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Hey look at that! Some J1c5 :) My maternal grand mother is from Dresde and i'm J1c5a, not so far from Poland. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Hey look at that! Some J1c5 :) My maternal grand mother is from Dresden and i'm J1c5a, not so far from Poland. :)
    Interesting. Silesian roots possibly? Dating back to the Scythians? Do you know your blood type?
    (I have corrected it to "DresdeN" in the quote assuming this is what you've meant)

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    Interesting. Silesian roots possibly? Dating back to the Scythians? Do you know your blood type?
    (I have corrected it to "DresdeN" in the quote assuming this is what you've meant)
    Dresde is in French, but thanks. Dont really know about my roots in a maternal side, but J1c5 was found in neolithic romania and in neolithic scandinavia if i recall, so it was very wide spread in the neolithic. It probably stationed in northern europe at the times of CWC.

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    Learned something. :) https://translate.google.com/#fr/de/dresde Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Dresde is in French, but thanks. Dont really know about my roots in a maternal side, but J1c5 was found in neolithic romania and in neolithic scandinavia if i recall, so it was very wide spread in the neolithic. It probably stationed in northern europe at the times of CWC.

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    Origin of the I2-Dinaric folks, pushed initially west by R1a, later pushed east by I1/R1b Jastorf, end up in western Ukraine when the Scythians collapsed and merged with the local R1a folks to form the Slavs. Ta da.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    Origin of the I2-Dinaric folks, pushed initially west by R1a, later pushed east by I1/R1b Jastorf, end up in western Ukraine when the Scythians collapsed and merged with the local R1a folks to form the Slavs. Ta da.
    How do you "know"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    markod

    Those CWC samples are very diverse internally, with the women pulling closer to the steppe and the men pulling closer to WHG, consistent with their I2a2 haplogroups. CWC seems to have been in serious decline a few hundred years after its explosive expansion. I wonder what caused this.

    One is also tempted to believe that the WHGs had some kind of adaptive advantage, seeing how WHG-rich groups managed to bounce back against farmers and herders so many times despite having no particularly innovations to boast of. Perhaps they were strongly selected for physical performance or cold climate resistance.


    European countries with the highest amount of haplogroup I are the most innovative, energetic and with most self-initiative. Your assessment is amateurish. Haplogroup I were the last of hunter gathers of Europe, but once farming and herding was forced on to them, they became force to be reckoned with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    How do you "know"?
    Reading from others, using my brain, putting pieces together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    European countries with the highest amount of haplogroup I are the most innovative, energetic and with most self-initiative. Your assessment is amateurish. Haplogroup I were the last of hunter gathers of Europe, but once farming and herding was forced on to them, they became force to be reckoned with.
    WHG-rich groups just don't seem to have been associated with any of the revolutions of metallurgy and food production at the time. It seems to me that haplogroup I rose after the initial population expansions associated with those new techniques. Hence my question whether the WHGs might have had a physical advantage of sorts. They were the tallest of the ancient groups IIRC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    WHG-rich groups just don't seem to have been associated with any of the revolutions of metallurgy and food production at the time. It seems to me that haplogroup I rose after the initial population expansions associated with those new techniques. Hence my question whether the WHGs might have had a physical advantage of sorts. They were the tallest of the ancient groups IIRC.
    what is often witnessed is that when farmers settle in HG areas, the HG adopt herding and also some agriculture at a lesser degree, but they also keep on hunting and fishing

    they have a more diversified subsistence , they are better equiped to handle climatic or other changes than the specialised sedentary farmers

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Physical advantage You say Markod.

    One thing i have noticed lately as the trend of beards has taken off. Does anyone know if any study has been done on beard type/style or growth pattern connected to genes as have other features like hair and eyes ?
    It seems to me that I group men can sometimes be found by there beards. Its that hells angel biker look with the 2 bald spots under the bottem lip.
    Usually these guys are to be seen as boxers, military, special forces, in general very tough fighting men. I'm not saying that alone but it does stand out as one of there best feature's. That is the Physicality not the beard :)


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    I'am R1b, 100% European and i have Sparse Hairs and Beard like an Asian. Funny!

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    @Markod
    Thanks!
    It's a pity they did not found the Y of the other males; the CWC Y-I2a2, if more sample confirms it, could show us the fusion of Y-R1a CWC and Y-I2a2 GAC...

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    So, a little bit off topic but, i've noticed that the sample of this paper were already on uMap, wich is an interactive map of ancient samples. But this map doesn't contain all the ancient samples that we know as today, do anybody knows why?

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    I'll just mention that unless you are any different from me, you've all had female ancestors too. So, miss me with that beard theory

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    ^^Some posts are just better off ignored. They're just too silly.

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    Some weird posts in here.

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