Are South Slavs more Balkan Native than Slavic?

There probably isn't much scholarly interest in such questions. In any case South Slavs are majority Slavic in most cases, as is I2a-Din. Autosomally Serbs seem to be the most Paleo-Balkanic of the Slavs in that they have greater affinity to Albanian and Tuscan populations (though the sample below includes Slavicized groups like the inhabitants of the Sandžak region). To get an idea consider these models, wherin Albanians serve as a proxy for the native population:

Slovenian: 72.5% Polish + 27.5% Albanian Fit: 0.702
Croatian: 70.83% Polish + 29.17% Albanian Fit: 0.52
Bosnian: 59.17% Polish + 40.83% Albanian Fit: 0.7791
Serbian: 40% Polish + 60% Albanian Fit: 0.8004

Y-DNA haplogroups are almost completely Slavic, especially in Bosnia and northern Croatia. The Paleo-Balkanic admixture must have come from women. Exceptions are again the
Sandžak populations with their Paleo-Balkanic haplogroup profile and the Serbs who seem to trace ~15-18% of their paternal lineages to a population that could have been Germanic.

That is very interesting, but I must say I have one strong doubt about this analysis: should we really assume that the pre-Slavic population of the northern parts of the Balkans, like Slovenia, Croatia or even Bosnia and Northern Serbia, were as "southern" autosomally as Albania? I'd expect them to be at least a bit more shifted to Northern/Northeastern Europe in the north-south genetic cline of Europe, though also much more southern-like than the present South Slavic population. Anyhow I certainly think Illyrians in Albania, living in a mountainous region close to Greece, were not necessarily the same autosomally as the and were probably a bit less exposed by Northern European admixture since the earlier antiquity (much like Greece had been much less influenced by Northeastern European/BA Steppe-like ancestry than lands to its north). The relative connections of Illyrian (if Albanian is assumed to be its descendant) with Germanic and Balto-Slavic also lead me to believe that the first Illyrians were probably more Northern European than some of their acculturated descendants more descended from EEF populations, and their impact was lower in the Mediterranean basin (much like Greeks vis a vis Proto-Greeks).

Therefore, of course I'm totally speculating, but I expect that these % of Albanian in the model kind of underestimate the true level of Pre-Slavic ancestry in Northern Balkanic populations, especially in the interior easily linked to the Pannonian plain and the Danubian basin. E.g. a model estimate of 29.17% for Croatians in my totally subjective guesstimate would indicate more likely something on the order of 35-45% of Pre-Slavic ancestry. I have a hard time believing that the Early Slavic population's numbers were so extremely large that they they'd have settled and acculturated lands from Eastern Germany to Russia and down to Bulgaria and even parts of Greece, and yet they'd have extant people enough to cause by themselves an autosomal impact of more than 70% in Croatia and Slovenia, a feat that would've required a massive family migration, not a male-biased immigration and conquest (almost impossible that such a kind of migration would've left such a huge genetic imprint).

What do you guys think about this possibility that many Illyrians (and also Thracians and Dacians, who also lived in South Slavic countries, especially Serbia) were not a homogeneous population ideally represented by modern Albanians?
 
That is very interesting, but I must say I have one strong doubt about this analysis: should we really assume that the pre-Slavic population of the northern parts of the Balkans, like Slovenia, Croatia or even Bosnia and Northern Serbia, were as "southern" autosomally as Albania? I'd expect them to be at least a bit more shifted to Northern/Northeastern Europe in the north-south genetic cline of Europe, though also much more southern-like than the present South Slavic population. Anyhow I certainly think Illyrians in Albania, living in a mountainous region close to Greece, were not necessarily the same autosomally as the and were probably a bit less exposed by Northern European admixture since the earlier antiquity (much like Greece had been much less influenced by Northeastern European/BA Steppe-like ancestry than lands to its north). The relative connections of Illyrian (if Albanian is assumed to be its descendant) with Germanic and Balto-Slavic also lead me to believe that the first Illyrians were probably more Northern European than some of their acculturated descendants more descended from EEF populations, and their impact was lower in the Mediterranean basin (much like Greeks vis a vis Proto-Greeks).

Therefore, of course I'm totally speculating, but I expect that these % of Albanian in the model kind of underestimate the true level of Pre-Slavic ancestry in Northern Balkanic populations, especially in the interior easily linked to the Pannonian plain and the Danubian basin. E.g. a model estimate of 29.17% for Croatians in my totally subjective guesstimate would indicate more likely something on the order of 35-45% of Pre-Slavic ancestry. I have a hard time believing that the Early Slavic population's numbers were so extremely large that they they'd have settled and acculturated lands from Eastern Germany to Russia and down to Bulgaria and even parts of Greece, and yet they'd have extant people enough to cause by themselves an autosomal impact of more than 70% in Croatia and Slovenia, a feat that would've required a massive family migration, not a male-biased immigration and conquest (almost impossible that such a kind of migration would've left such a huge genetic imprint).

What do you guys think about this possibility that many Illyrians (and also Thracians and Dacians, who also lived in South Slavic countries, especially Serbia) were not a homogeneous population ideally represented by modern Albanians?

well according to Dibran;
"There already is evidence in what Illyrians carried and it wasn’t I2a-Din. However many South Slavs seem to have an issue with this reality(not saying you)*. The affinity Albanians share with Greeks is mostly autosomal paleobalkan ancestry. J2b-L283, the parent clade to E-V13 and R1b have all been found in Paleo Balkan remains of Illyrian territory. J2b-L283 specifically in a Proto Illyrian from Dalmatia. All three of these lineages are overwhelmingly found among Albanians and practically minimal in South Slavs. Additionally Mycenaean and Minoan remains were J2a, the variety of which is found predominantly in Greeks and Albanians barely have this haplogroup. "

Apparently Illyrian remains don't carry any I2, although I don't know his source on this. Have people dug up ancient burials to research haplogroups and genetics? Also I don't know the what the difference is with autosomal dna and haplogroups.

*I don't think we have any issues with anything, we just want to know. Over the years I've heard it go from: "Oh yeah, Croats are Sarmatians, 100%." Then "Oh yeah Croats are Illyrians 100%." Now it's "Oh yeah Croats are Slavs 100%." Speaking for myself, I just plain want to know where I come from, who my ancestors were. I think the Illyrian theory in particular seems so credible because, as I said in my OP: we're so unique when compared to other European ethnic groups (even Slavs), and are closest to one another genetically. That the only population in Europe who is very closely related, happens to be in a region of Europe where a very unique ancient ethnic group once existed that had their own language and existed only there, just seems very intriguing. Either way, I'm not saying we are Illyrian or whatever, I just want to know. If they dig up Sarmatian burial mounds one day and all the males are I2a I'll be just as cool with that lmao.
 
well according to Dibran;
"There already is evidence in what Illyrians carried and it wasn’t I2a-Din. However many South Slavs seem to have an issue with this reality(not saying you)*. The affinity Albanians share with Greeks is mostly autosomal paleobalkan ancestry. J2b-L283, the parent clade to E-V13 and R1b have all been found in Paleo Balkan remains of Illyrian territory. J2b-L283 specifically in a Proto Illyrian from Dalmatia. All three of these lineages are overwhelmingly found among Albanians and practically minimal in South Slavs. Additionally Mycenaean and Minoan remains were J2a, the variety of which is found predominantly in Greeks and Albanians barely have this haplogroup. "

Apparently Illyrian remains don't carry any I2, although I don't know his source on this. Have people dug up ancient burials to research haplogroups and genetics? Also I don't know the what the difference is with autosomal dna and haplogroups.

*I don't think we have any issues with anything, we just want to know. Over the years I've heard it go from: "Oh yeah, Croats are Sarmatians, 100%." Then "Oh yeah Croats are Illyrians 100%." Now it's "Oh yeah Croats are Slavs 100%." Speaking for myself, I just plain want to know where I come from, who my ancestors were. I think the Illyrian theory in particular seems so credible because, as I said in my OP: we're so unique when compared to other European ethnic groups (even Slavs), and are closest to one another genetically. That the only population in Europe who is very closely related, happens to be in a region of Europe where a very unique ancient ethnic group once existed that had their own language and existed only there, just seems very intriguing. Either way, I'm not saying we are Illyrian or whatever, I just want to know. If they dig up Sarmatian burial mounds one day and all the males are I2a I'll be just as cool with that lmao.

its not according to me. It’s according to the actual DNA results. A simple google search will bring it up for you. There’s published papers that mention these. Specifically J2b-L283 in specific. If you go to the haplo section for J2 it mentions the sample I am referring to.

Slavs married native women. That explains how native dna was passed down into Balkan Slavs. Paternally you’re Slavic. Technically so is my line. Even though I’m Albanian it probably arrived with Proto Slavs during the Middle Ages. Nothing to be ashamed about.

The only souths Slavs with native paternal Y chromosomes are Bulgarians Macedonians and to some extent Montenegrin and Serbs. However most Serbs, Bosnians and Croats are paternally descended from Slavs in majority.

Theres been no I2a1b in Illyrians. The clade almost all south Slavs belong is exclusively a young downstream clade under CTS10228. The parent of which was found in Motala.

Sarmatian elite were probably R1a-Z93 and R1b-Z2103. Much of the groups referred to as Sarmatians were probably Proto Slavic any ways. The only Balkan group that could maybe be connected to Proto slavic tribes is Dacians in the Carpathians. Not Illyrians.
 
well according to Dibran;
"There already is evidence in what Illyrians carried and it wasn’t I2a-Din. However many South Slavs seem to have an issue with this reality(not saying you)*. The affinity Albanians share with Greeks is mostly autosomal paleobalkan ancestry. J2b-L283, the parent clade to E-V13 and R1b have all been found in Paleo Balkan remains of Illyrian territory. J2b-L283 specifically in a Proto Illyrian from Dalmatia. All three of these lineages are overwhelmingly found among Albanians and practically minimal in South Slavs. Additionally Mycenaean and Minoan remains were J2a, the variety of which is found predominantly in Greeks and Albanians barely have this haplogroup. "

Apparently Illyrian remains don't carry any I2, although I don't know his source on this. Have people dug up ancient burials to research haplogroups and genetics? Also I don't know the what the difference is with autosomal dna and haplogroups.

*I don't think we have any issues with anything, we just want to know. Over the years I've heard it go from: "Oh yeah, Croats are Sarmatians, 100%." Then "Oh yeah Croats are Illyrians 100%." Now it's "Oh yeah Croats are Slavs 100%." Speaking for myself, I just plain want to know where I come from, who my ancestors were. I think the Illyrian theory in particular seems so credible because, as I said in my OP: we're so unique when compared to other European ethnic groups (even Slavs), and are closest to one another genetically. That the only population in Europe who is very closely related, happens to be in a region of Europe where a very unique ancient ethnic group once existed that had their own language and existed only there, just seems very intriguing. Either way, I'm not saying we are Illyrian or whatever, I just want to know. If they dig up Sarmatian burial mounds one day and all the males are I2a I'll be just as cool with that lmao.

Northern and Central Illyrians could lack I2a-Din (I somehow doubt they lacked I2 entirely, though it could not have been among their main Y-DNA haplogroup), but still be autosomally more northern in terms of admixture distribution than their southern counterparts in Greece, Macedonia and Albania, especially if (as I think it's likely) they had been subject to much more northern influences than people in South Balkans (Illyrians in the northern areas are actually supposed to be part of the Hallstatt cultural zone, for example). They could have just had a different history of success and failure in male lineages, but that does not tell us much about their entire ancestral history (for example Basques are overwhelmingly R1b-L51 and Irish people, too, but the latter have very much more BA Steppe ancestry). I won't say all or even most of that "Polish affinity" can be explained this way, but I'd bet that some of it can.
 
Here are some data (from LDNA on diferent forums posts).
I do not see any Slavic category ... What is it?
UserCountryRegionEast BalkansWest BalkansPannoniaTotal SEEBalticsNE EuroFin.,RussiaMordoviaTotal NEEAegeanNorth ItalyTuscanySouth ItalySardiniaIberiaBasqueTotal SENWE - GBFranceGermanicScandinaviaEngland,WalesScotland,IrelandTotal NWEArmenia,CyprusNorth TurkeySouth TurkeyKurdishIranCaucasusLevantArabiaTotal WAPashtunSindhTotal SASiberiaMongolia,ManchuriaNortheast ChinaNorth ChinaSouth ChinaSouthwest ChinaJapan and KoreaSoutheast AsiaTotal EAEuro UnassignedY-DNAmtDNA
1RomaniaEast0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%3.6%32.7%4.8%4.0%45.1%22.1%3.8%1.6%2.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%29.5%9.4%9.4%0.0%0.0%8.7%0.0%18.1%0.0%2.8%1.5%1.6%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%5.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.4%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.4%0.0%I2a-S17250T2a1b1a
2RomaniaSouth57.0%3.0%3.0%63.0%0.0%2.0%0.0%0.0%2.0%5.0%0.0%4.8%5.0%0.0%1.2%0.0%16.0%10.3%6.0%3.0%1.3%8.7%0.0%19.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%G2a-P303X2e1b
3RomaniaSouth/West36.8%3.6%4.1%44.5%4.7%0.0%0.0%1.6%6.3%12.2%3.8%8.9%0.0%0.0%3.8%0.0%28.7%2.6%1.3%1.3%0.0%16.3%0.0%18.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.6%0.0%0.0%1.6%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
4SerbiaSouth43.7%7.1%1.2%52.0%8.1%1.5%1.9%0.0%11.5%4.7%4.9%13.0%0.0%0.0%1.0%0.0%23.6%7.0%4.2%0.0%2.8%1.9%0.0%8.9%0.0%2.4%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.6%0.0%4.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
5SerbiaEast9.9%13.5%32.5%55.9%0.0%12.9%1.6%2.4%16.9%0.0%2.1%8.5%2.6%0.0%0.0%0.0%13.2%7.5%4.6%0.0%2.9%3.5%0.0%11.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.8%0.0%0.0%2.8%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
6BulgariaN/A13.0%8.0%6.0%27.0%2.0%5.0%6.0%0.0%13.0%34.0%13.0%1.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%48.0%3.0%0.0%3.0%0.0%8.0%0.0%11.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.0%1.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
7BulgariaN/A18.0%4.0%14.0%36.0%3.0%8.0%0.0%3.0%14.0%12.0%6.0%2.0%12.0%0.0%5.0%0.0%37.0%7.0%3.0%3.0%1.0%3.0%0.0%10.0%0.0%1.0%0.0%1.0%0.0%1.0%0.0%0.0%3.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
8BulgariaN/A22.4%11.0%10.1%43.5%2.4%5.6%0.0%3.0%11.0%3.1%3.4%10.9%12.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%30.3%8.4%0.0%8.4%0.0%0.0%0.0%8.4%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.3%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.3%4.5%0.0%4.5%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
9GreeceNorth/South43.9%0.0%0.0%43.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%14.0%11.1%0.0%3.4%0.0%28.5%3.5%3.5%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%3.5%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%11.0%0.0%6.5%0.0%17.5%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.9%
10GreeceNorth/South5.5%1.6%1.5%8.6%0.0%1.3%0.0%0.0%1.3%44.1%3.5%13.4%12.3%0.0%0.0%0.0%73.3%12.2%8.0%2.4%1.8%4.5%0.0%16.7%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%
11GreeceNorth/South14.0%0.0%0.0%14.0%2.0%0.0%2.0%0.0%4.0%30.5%0.0%10.0%17.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%58.4%11.9%3.2%2.7%6.0%1.8%0.0%13.7%0.0%6.3%0.0%1.3%0.0%0.0%2.1%0.0%9.7%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%A1a
12GreeceSouth2.0%0.0%2.1%4.1%0.0%0.0%1.2%0.0%1.2%44.2%0.0%11.3%16.6%1.7%1.9%0.0%75.7%7.5%2.7%1.4%3.4%5.6%0.0%13.1%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.3%3.6%0.0%0.0%0.0%5.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%J1-PF7263H1
13AlbaniaNorth0.0%7.5%0.0%7.5%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%65.2%6.7%3.0%4.0%1.5%0.0%0.0%80.4%1.3%0.0%0.0%1.3%6.7%0.0%8.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.1%2.1%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%1.9%R1a-L1029*H11a2*
14AlbaniaSouth6.4%0.0%0.0%6.4%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%64.5%1.3%7.0%0.0%1.5%0.0%0.0%74.3%3.6%1.2%2.4%0.0%6.9%0.0%10.5%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.5%0.0%0.0%2.5%2.9%0.0%2.9%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%3.4%I-CTS10228H-15
15AlbaniaNorth6.2%12.1%0.0%18.3%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%59.0%7.8%12.8%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%79.6%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%2.1%0.0%2.1%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%0.0%E-V13>FGC33625U1a1a
 
That is very interesting, but I must say I have one strong doubt about this analysis: should we really assume that the pre-Slavic population of the northern parts of the Balkans, like Slovenia, Croatia or even Bosnia and Northern Serbia, were as "southern" autosomally as Albania? I'd expect them to be at least a bit more shifted to Northern/Northeastern Europe in the north-south genetic cline of Europe, though also much more southern-like than the present South Slavic population. Anyhow I certainly think Illyrians in Albania, living in a mountainous region close to Greece, were not necessarily the same autosomally as the and were probably a bit less exposed by Northern European admixture since the earlier antiquity (much like Greece had been much less influenced by Northeastern European/BA Steppe-like ancestry than lands to its north). The relative connections of Illyrian (if Albanian is assumed to be its descendant) with Germanic and Balto-Slavic also lead me to believe that the first Illyrians were probably more Northern European than some of their acculturated descendants more descended from EEF populations, and their impact was lower in the Mediterranean basin (much like Greeks vis a vis Proto-Greeks).

Shouldn't we expect some more "northern" signs in their autosomal as well then?

Therefore, of course I'm totally speculating, but I expect that these % of Albanian in the model kind of underestimate the true level of Pre-Slavic ancestry in Northern Balkanic populations, especially in the interior easily linked to the Pannonian plain and the Danubian basin. E.g. a model estimate of 29.17% for Croatians in my totally subjective guesstimate would indicate more likely something on the order of 35-45% of Pre-Slavic ancestry. I have a hard time believing that the Early Slavic population's numbers were so extremely large that they they'd have settled and acculturated lands from Eastern Germany to Russia and down to Bulgaria and even parts of Greece, and yet they'd have extant people enough to cause by themselves an autosomal impact of more than 70% in Croatia and Slovenia, a feat that would've required a massive family migration, not a male-biased immigration and conquest (almost impossible that such a kind of migration would've left such a huge genetic imprint).

Any post-Illyrian population that survived by the time of the arrival of the Slavs was probably nowhere near as large as it once was. Lack of population is probably why the Slavs could settle there in the first place.

What do you guys think about this possibility that many Illyrians (and also Thracians and Dacians, who also lived in South Slavic countries, especially Serbia) were not a homogeneous population ideally represented by modern Albanians?

The shared native Y and autosomal dna among today's south Balkan nations indicate that the previous population was relatively homogenous in DNA at least. DNA, however, can be shared by different nations so let's ignore that for a second and let's focus on the connection you yourself mention of Albanian to German and I'd like to add the well known connection to Dacian (if Romanian is assumed to be it's descendant) as well. I would say this implies homogeneity in that geographic area quite well.
 
Any post-Illyrian population that survived by the time of the arrival of the Slavs was probably nowhere near as large as it once was. Lack of population is probably why the Slavs could settle there in the first place.

That is a kind of mystery by knowing that Illyrians were warlike people. Now you have Slavs arriving and Illyrians just let them occupy the land without resistance?? That is kinda weird at least to me. Anyone have any idea why is that?
 
They were soft
 
Shouldn't we expect some more "northern" signs in their autosomal as well then?



Any post-Illyrian population that survived by the time of the arrival of the Slavs was probably nowhere near as large as it once was. Lack of population is probably why the Slavs could settle there in the first place.



The shared native Y and autosomal dna among today's south Balkan nations indicate that the previous population was relatively homogenous in DNA at least. DNA, however, can be shared by different nations so let's ignore that for a second and let's focus on the connection you yourself mention of Albanian to German and I'd like to add the well known connection to Dacian (if Romanian is assumed to be it's descendant) as well. I would say this implies homogeneity in that geographic area quite well.

Not necessarily in terms of autosomal DNA. They could have had a similar Y-DNA makeup due to the strong patrilineality of most BA and IA Indo-European groups and eventual founder effects, but that could have not prevented gradual mixing with neighboring populations, especially northerners. Also, I really do not know, so I ask: do we have ancient Iron Age (so presumably Illyrian "proper") auDNA and Y-DNA from all of the Western Balkans, stretching from Croatia/Slovenia to Albania in the south? If not, how can we assume that all of the "northern" input was necessarily an addition into a homogeneously Albanian-like people (and see that the proxy used was Poland, which clearly had Central & Northwest European influences, too - Germanic most of all)? I'm not saying the Illyrians were just a linguistic community without a coherent and uniform genetic structure, but I somehow doubt no substructure would've been found. Let's say e.g. that the Southern Illyrians were "70% core Illyrian + 30% extra South European", while Northern Illyrians were "70% proto-Illyrian + 30% extra North/Central European". They'd still form a mostly homogeneous linguistic and genetic unity, but with clear substructure.

That does not even imply, of course, that the genetic replacement by Slavs was not really large, or that depopulation of much of the Balkans did not happen (allowing Slavs to migrate and conquer more easily). That is not what I'm trying to say, but just that we may be overestimating its impact a bit (as I said in my first speculative example, say 40% instead of 29%, not that big a difference) by using as proxies of Illyrians of the North Balkans the modern-day Albanians, and as proxies of the Slavs the modern Polish (I'd personally have preferred a Belarusian proxy, but I'm no expert on this subject, so leave it at that). As I said previously, I find it really hard to believe that, if the Slavic expansion was really a people migration as it seems, and not a linguistic/cultural expansion more than anything else, they would've had such a populous society in such a highly populated homeland that they would be able to settle much of Europe from Eastern Germany to Northwest Russia and from there to Bulgaria and even parts of Greece - and yet they'd have numbers enough to make a demic impact of more than 70% in sizeable parts of the Balkans. They would have to have had a huge population to achieve that feat, or then an unprecedented population boom in the latter centuries of the Middle Ages to make that happen.
 
They were soft

To the contrary. One can see this in the linguistic evidence: while Slavic borrowings in Albanian mainly pertain to industry and agricultural life, Albanian borrowings in Serbo-Croatian usually have to do with warlike virtues, tribal organisation and such. One could argue that the men who fathered the Serbo-Croats were assimilated into the Paleo-Balkanic cultural milieu, though not linguistically. At least this is the thesis of the Austrian sociologist Karl Käser who might perhaps be most insightful author on Western Balkanic matters.
 
Perhaps Proto Slavs are connected to Dacians

They are not! The most archaic Slavic hydronyms are south of Pripet marshes which totally corresponds with Zarubintsy culture (which have nothing to do with Dacians), which most archeologists see as the first Slavic culture.

There already is evidence in what Illyrians carried and it wasn’t I2a-Din.

I2a Dinarid mainly come with the Slavic migrations, before it, with Bastarns. Actually, Germanic-speaking Bastarns most likely mixed with R1a-M458 from Prszework culture and migrated (both of them) in Zarubinets antiquities. Was Zarubintsy "proto-Slavic" speaking in such form as it is today before come of I2a and R1a-M458, remains unclear.
 
That is a kind of mystery by knowing that Illyrians were warlike people. Now you have Slavs arriving and Illyrians just let them occupy the land without resistance?? That is kinda weird at least to me. Anyone have any idea why is that?
.

Nobody will ever know for sure, but there are two versions according to me: Illyrians could have been in contact with Slavs before been invaded and invited them to settle in sparsely populated areas to defend against avars and other Turkic invaders. The mindset could have been different at that time. But it did change latter. Albanian word for the ugly enemy is Dushmani, which is Albanian linguistic version of Dushani ( tzar Dushani))The Slavs may not have been seen as bad as they are seen today. Ones the first wave of Slavs came peacefully the second one was a tsunami.
In sparsity of Albanian population there were two known factors: Roman constantly drafting, left Albanian areas always male short. Illyrian males were serving in Roman outposts from England to Egypt. Also at the 5th century there is a known plague. There are extensive records about that. The extent of that plague was devastating. That is the period of first Slavs coming to Balkans as well. So Illyrians had no time to recover their numbers over the devastation of plague.
 
That is a kind of mystery by knowing that Illyrians were warlike people. Now you have Slavs arriving and Illyrians just let them occupy the land without resistance?? That is kinda weird at least to me. Anyone have any idea why is that?

If you watch the Deretiç videos on YouTube you will never learn anything about history.
 
1200px-WestEurasia_admixture_crop.png


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090#pone-0105090-g002

As you can see, Bosnian Croats are autosomally more southern (i. e. Balkanic) even than Muslim Bosnians. You can test this yourself with more accurate formal models if you want to explore this in more detail.

Data in a way it is presented above is a bit misleading as one can't easily compare distant blocks, e. g. Hungary is for some strange reason moved into the group with France (West Europe) even though there is striking similarity between Hungarian and Croatian data and the both countries share common history and geography. IMO the PCA plot gives us clearer picture of the relatedness of the analyzed populations:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.g003

Two major clusters could be identified in the geographic region between Ukraine and Albania. It is clear that Bosnian Croats, as well as the rest of the Croats and Bosnians, and Hungarians, "live" in the "northern" cluster which is closer to the Slavic homeland. The populations with more southern Europe ancestry are, obviously, Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians, Montenegrins and Serbians.
 
Ask yourself this: why are Bosnian Croats autosomally closer to Albanians than, say, Kajkavians despite having a more Slavic Y-haploid profile?


The answer is obviously male-biased migration.


However, the Bosnian Croats are autosomally MUCH closer to Kajkavians (northwerstern Croats) then to Albanians, so I don't see your point. The "difference" that you stressed is insignificant when you put it into a larger context.

In this PCA plot you can see where Bosnian Croats plot in comparson to the other southeastern Europe populations, including Kosovars (mainly ethnic Albanians):

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/a...id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.g003
 
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They are not! The most archaic Slavic hydronyms are south of Pripet marshes which totally corresponds with Zarubintsy culture (which have nothing to do with Dacians), which most archeologists see as the first Slavic culture.



I2a Dinarid mainly come with the Slavic migrations, before it, with Bastarns. Actually, Germanic-speaking Bastarns most likely mixed with R1a-M458 from Prszework culture and migrated (both of them) in Zarubinets antiquities. Was Zarubintsy "proto-Slavic" speaking in such form as it is today before come of I2a and R1a-M458, remains unclear.

Maybe. However, absent any ADNA for M458 the theories range from Carpathian origin, Lusatian around Gdansk, or Trziniec Culture, a eastern offshoot culture of Lusatian. We won't know for certain without ancient remains. Given most of its diversity ranged from Romania to Poland, and the highest concentration is in Central Europe, this is where its proposed origin has been mentioned. Many of the tribes Romans called East Germanic may not have even been so. Time will tell.
 
However, the Bosnian Croats are autosomally MUCH closer to Kajkavians (northwerstern Croats) then to Albanians, so I don't see your point. The "difference" that you stressed is insignificant when you put it into a larger context.

In this PCA plot you can see the where Bosnian Croats plot in comparson to the other southeastern Europe populations, including Kosovars (mainly ethnic Albanians):

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/a...id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.g003


My point is that Bosnian Croats received female-biased admixture from Paleo-Balkanic populations, which is why they lie on a cline between Albanians/Tuscans and Ukrainians on your PCA. Of course Bosnian Croats are closer to other Croats than they are to Albanians.
 

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