Are South Slavs more Balkan Native than Slavic?

[Lenab]

It's likely the other way around. The Pannonian plain would have been the primary region whence the Slavs infilitrated the Dinaric range. The region of Vojvodina and adjacent Slavonia were likely the very first landscapes settled by the ancestors of the Serbo-Croats, some of whom might have been assimilated into the Hungarian ethnos later on.

Austria Hungarian expansion was much much much later. thousands of years later Thracians are like 7,000 years ago they certainly weren't ethnically Hungarian neither same as Illyrians

 

[Lenab]

Maybe Autism idk

 

[Lenab]

Not a fan of Zionism so not a fan of his thanks

 

[Fatherland]

I do not show chauvinism neither am I Serbian I have one Serbian ancestor a Great Grandfather, I also have English Armenian/Anatolian and Greek/Italian ancestors still with all that mix I am genetically European so are all my direct family members so I am not sure what you are getting at.

I have mainly Greek and English genetics again according to GED not my opinion

Albanians aren't even on the plotting map. Because you're mixed in with whatever population you settled in when you came to the Balkans during the middle ages naw, Serbians do not plot with Albanians rather, Albanians plot with Italians Greeks and Serbs.

Wrong. Albanians are there, the Kosovar Albanians.

Albanians have been in the Balkans longer than Serbs and are here to stay. We had always survived, regardless of opposition, regardless of crazy chauvinism.

 

[Lenab]

Wrong. Albanians are there, the Kosovar Albanians.

Albanians have been in the Balkans longer than Serbs and are here to stay. We had always survived, regardless of opposition, regardless of crazy chauvinism.

That would be easy to believe if you had a singular plot on ged which you don't and if Serbians plotted with Albanians which they don't

Albanians plotting with Serbs would kind of indicate that Serbs were there before Albanians not vice versa. Albanian genetics is very universal it's not an attack either Albanians don't just cluster with Serbs, Croatians do, Albanians plot with Serbs, Italians, Greeks general Slavs fill in the gap here.

How can you say all Albanians are native to Kosovo yet, not all of the Albanian live in Kosovo but also Greece and South Italy while at the same time being all Illyrian a type of Roman tribe which doesn't even exist anymore as a entity but rather baseless generic genetics?

 

[Wonomyro]

You when you imply there are many different ethnicity in Vojvodina no most are Serbs even if they are Serbs because of resent Austro Hungarian take over therefore shift in genetics they still identify as being Serbs even the Croats related to them, still say they are Serbs.

Absolutely not. You are totally lost. You mixed up everything.

There isn't such a thing as Hungarians in Serbia

Of course there is! There are loads of Hungarians in Vojvodina (now part of in Serbia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina#/media/File:Vojvodina-Ethnic-2011.GIF

... but Serbs with similar dna aka ''North Serbs'' those North Serbs converted to being Catholic then moved to ancient Dalmatia aka what is now known as Croatia that is why you plot more North than general Serbs and that is why you plot next to Hungarians rather than general Serbs. Which is what I have said, time and time and time again.

That's hilarious!

There are no “North Serbs”, just Serbs who live in Vojvodina and they descend from the Orthodox Christian migrants from Serbia proper during the Ottoman rule and after (They came with their Partriarch).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

These Serbs obviously couldn’t have moved to “ancient Dalmatia” in order to become Croats.

 

[markod]

That would be easy to believe if you had a singular plot on ged which you don't and if Serbians plotted with Albanians which they don't

Albanians plotting with Serbs would kind of indicate that Serbs were there before Albanians not vice versa. Albanian genetics is very universal it's not an attack either Albanians don't just cluster with Serbs Croatians do Albanians plot with Serbs Italians Greeks general Slavs fill in the gap here.

How can you say all Albanians are native to Kosovo yet, not all of the Albanian live in Kosovo but also Greece and South Italy while at the same time being all Illyrian a type of Roman tribe which doesn't even exist anymore as a entity but rather baseless generic genetics?

The toponymy in Southern Serbia and parts of Macedonia definitely looks very Albanian.

 

[Fatherland]

That would be easy to believe if you had a singular plot on ged which you don't and if Serbians plotted with Albanians which they don't

Albanians plotting with Serbs would kind of indicate that Serbs were there before Albanians not vice versa. Albanian genetics is very universal it's not an attack either Albanians don't just cluster with Serbs Croatians do Albanians plot with Serbs Italians Greeks general Slavs fill in the gap here.

How can you say all Albanians are native to Kosovo yet, not all of the Albanian live in Kosovo but also Greece and South Italy while at the same time being all Illyrian a type of Roman tribe which doesn't even exist anymore as a entity but rather baseless generic genetics?

Many Serbs from Bosnia & Croatia came to Kosovo after the Yugoslav war, these people are not the same as the Albanian-admixed Serbs of Southern Serbia.

Nish was all Albanian-populated prior to the Serbian chauvinistic expansion a century ago.

Map by Romanian author, showing Albanian progenitors stretch from the Dinaric Alps to the Pannonian basin and Macedonia.

3rd-7th century map:

 

[JajarBingan]

I'm genuinely curious if this has been "decided" anywhere by credible researchers.

South Slavs have a different stock of haplogroups than Northern Slavs, and cluster together rather than with other European groups. Clearly we're our own family-branch.

Coincidentally the people with the highest portion of M423 also dwell in what the Romans and Greeks labelled Illyria. Although most people think the Illyrians simply vanished after their Latinization, some kept their ethnic identity for a long time (such as the Barracks Emperors, Belisarius, etc.). I know the Balkans were generally a war-zone for the late Roman Empire and barbarian tribes, but did the Illyrians really just vanish (again)? I mean, Albanians claim to be of that stock but have more in common with Greeks genetically than South Slavs, and Albania was generally a kind of borderline between Illyria proper and Greece (Epirus).

Historically it was said that many Roman cities on the Croatian coast remained free and independent of the "migrant Slavs" and Latin Dalmatian was spoken well into the 1800's (from what I recall). Haplogroup I2 spikes in Dalmatia and Bosnia, one packed with seemingly peaceful Illyrian towns, the other a mountainous escape for natives from invading foreigners.

I mean, from the mosaics of Roman-Illyrian Emperors and Generals in Byzantium, I can definitely see more of a resemblance to many Southern Slavs than I can when comparing typical Bosnians to typical Russians. At the same time there is definitely a Slavic (or whatever northern European tribe) mix in Balkanians for sure, but mainly were we simply Slavicized after the collapse of the Western and Eastern Roman Empires?

Croatians were historically referred to as Illyrians, Serbs were synonymous with Tribalians (Thracian tribe), and Bosnia is named after the Bosona river (an Illyrian word if I recall correctly). I mean people of haplogroup I are noted for being particularly tall, the Greeks and Romans both described Illyrians as particularly tall people.

Can they ever dig up Illyrian bones and sequence their haplogroups?

According to my Global 25 calculator, Balkans K4, it's something like this:

Population	Thracian + Greek	Slavic
Greek	92%	6%
Albanian	87%	13%
Bulgarian	70%	30%
Macedonian	65%	35%
Romanian	65%	35%
Serbian	60%	40%
Montenegrin	60%	40%
Moldovan	50%	50%
Bosnian	45%	55%
Croatian	35%	65%
Slovenian	30%	70%

 

[Lenab]

Many Serbs from Bosnia & Croatia came to Kosovo after the Yugoslav war, these people are not the same as the Albanian-admixed Serbs of Southern Serbia.

Nish was all Albanian-populated prior to the Serbian chauvinistic expansion a century ago.

Map by Romanian author, showing Albanian progenitors stretch from the Dinaric Alps to the Pannonian basin and Macedonia.

3rd-7th century map:

Albanian admixture Serbs LOL!!!!!

 

[Fatherland]

Albanian admixture Serbs LOL!!!!!

A "female" with yDNA. You're one phony character.

 

[Lenab]

The toponymy in Southern Serbia and parts of Macedonia definitely looks very Albanian.

All South Serbs and Montenegrin identify as being Serbs same as the North Serbs who call themselves North Serbs not Hungarians

So now we can establish Serbian genetics isn't written in stone either. South Serbs are more Pontid and Alpine Med North Serbs are more genetically Dinaric South Serbs are genetically more Mediterranean let's say that being Albanian isn't some calling card for being some kind of a well...You know what

 

[Lenab]

A "female" with yDNA. You're one phony character.

Why attack me personally I have a Father I am not a .......

A man with MTdna same as mine haplogroup H who is such a Balkan patriot with a North French Norman wife.

 

[Fatherland]

Why attack me personally I have a Father I am not a .......

A man with MTdna same as mine haplogroup H who is such a Balkan patriot with a North French Norman wife.

yDNA cannot be passed down to females. That's what I'm implying.

 

[Lenab]

Absolutely not. You are totally lost. You mixed up everything.



Of course there is! There are loads of Hungarians in Vojvodina (now part of in Serbia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina#/media/File:Vojvodina-Ethnic-2011.GIF



That's hilarious!

There are no “North Serbs”, just Serbs who live in Vojvodina and they descend from the Orthodox Christian migrants from Serbia proper during the Ottoman rule and after (They came with their Partriarch).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

These Serbs obviously couldn’t have moved to “ancient Dalmatia” in order to become Croats.

No they became Catholic

Ok Serbs who populate North Serbia which is basically North Serbs including the phenotype

 

[Lenab]

yDNA cannot be passed down to females. That's what I'm implying.

I spoke of haplogroup your female haplogroup is the same as mine

Your male haplogroup is the same as South Europeans

 

[Fatherland]

I spoke of haplogroup your female haplogroup is the same as mine

Your male haplogroup is the same as South Europeans

My yDNA radiates from Albania. Same goes for EV13 and R1b-L23.

It's not saying much, but atleast it's not a transplant like you claim, these haplogroups are not common in South Slavs.

EV13 among Serbs is chiefly of Albanian extraction. Clade testing has already shown it.

 

[markod]

All South Serbs and Montenegrin Identify as being Serbs same as the North Serbs who call themselves North Serbs not Hungarians

So now we can establish Serbian genetics isn't written in stone either. South Serbs are more Pontid and Alpine Med North Serbs are more genetically Dinaric South Serbs are genetically more Mediterranean let's say that being Albanian isn't some calling card for being some kind of a well...You know what

Yes, as we have established all South Slavs are Slavs with significant but varying proportions of female-biased Balkanic admixture. The Serbo-Croatians considered tribal affiliation to be inherited along the male line. A son of a native woman and a Slavic man would have been just as Slavic as a 'pure' Slav.

In Croatia we also find traces of ethnoses which became extinct with this expansion. For instance, much of the toponymy in North-Western Croatia looks Western Slavic, and the Kajkavian regional dialect seems to have a strong West Slavic substratum.

 

[Johane Derite]

All South Serbs and Montenegrin Identify as being Serbs same as the North Serbs who call themselves North Serbs not Hungarians

So now we can establish Serbian genetics isn't written in stone either. South Serbs are more Pontid and Alpine Med North Serbs are more genetically Dinaric South Serbs are genetically more Mediterranean let's say that being Albanian isn't some calling card for being some kind of a well...You know what

You are misinformed. There is a hungarian minority in the north who very much has their own ethnic identity as Hungarians. Just 3 days ago was the 100 year anniversary of the annexation of Vojvodina by Serbia, and there were some manifestations. For example in Novi Sad some people even changed the street signs and one of them was "REPUBLIC OF VOJVODINA". This is obviously a very clear message.

LINK: http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a438807/Table-s-natpisima-Trg-republike-Vojvodine-u-Novom-sadu.html

When I see Croats having to deal with the same type of constant misinformation coming from Serbia I understand fully solidarity behind the 2000+ Albanian soldiers that volunteered to fight against Serbia in the last Croatian war.

 

[Wonomyro]

No they became Catholic

Serbs from Vojvodina never moved to anywhere and never “become Catholic”.

Ok Serbs who populate North Serbia which is basically North Serbs including the phenotype

They came to Vojvodina in 17-18^th century, mostly from Sanjak area, which is now a Southern part of Serbia.