Are South Slavs more Balkan Native than Slavic?

[hrvat22]

don_joe

Both Serbian and Croatian as well as the others have roots in it.

Derviş Mehmed Zillî (25 March 1611 – 1682), known as Evliya Çeleb, during the 17th century was in Belgrade and wrote that Serbs do not speak as Croats and Bosniaks becouse they speak incorrectly.

I am a Croat with an E-V13, there are 10% of those in Croatia. The percentage in Serbia goes even higher, in Montenegro more than that. And that is only the Y HG. Autosomally...just look at the chart.

There are a couple of branches E1b V13 that do not overlap with Albanians, but there is a greater chance that someone of your ancestors come to Croatia with Vlach migration.

 

[Lenab]

I haven't denied any "connection" that is visible from data. I only deny assumed connections that are not proved by data. That's what we all stick to. Daily politics, "Ustashe" and discussions who we like or not, have nothing to do with the subject.

I told you bring it and I don't want close to samples but literal ones on average what are Croats related to.

I know one Croat who has Serb ancestors and I have never made blanket statements about any populations because such a thing barely exists anyway

 

[Lenab]

I don't see how your comment relates to what I said. I said - no sample cherrypicking. That has nothing to do with Hitler/Stalin or any other nonsense.

It's fascist to not accept that there is a genetic relation to something or someone based on politics it is like what the Ustasha would say and support when they ethnically cleansed them from their historical part of Serbia and Ex Yugo in general.

 

[Lenab]

Cyrillic is an alphabet based on Greek alphabet. Brothers Cyrillus and Methodius developed it after Glagollitic, which they created first to help spread Christianity from the Byzantine. Latin letters are used in Croatia since the Middle Ages. The only contact with Cyrillic was before the '90. in 5. class in school.

And the Greek alphabet is loosely based on Phoenician and that's based on ancient Egyptian if you like

 

[Wonomyro]

Cyrillic is a Slavic based language alphabet based on the fact that Croatia is Middle/South Eastern Europe they will speak the language and read from a Cyrillic alph/texts. However it's more Latin based than Serbs speak and read.

Google Latin based Alph/languages and Cyrillic based language texts then you will see the difference between Serbs and Croats and what they speak.

The Cyrillic-Latin split was not a split between Croats and Serbs during the middle ages. That is a common mantra of Serbian nationalism. Serbian version of Cyrillic was different then the one used by Catholic Croats. There is not only one local historical document where the letters of so called Western Cyrillic, were explicitly called "Croatian script". The same can be said for the local Glagolitic script which preceded it.

 

[Lenab]

Just shooting a few Croatian politicians in the middle of a parlament session for example?

Have you any idea what they did in WW2 or after?

 

[Lenab]

The Cyrillic-Latin split was not a split between Croats and Serbs during the middle ages. That is a common mantra of Serbian nationalism. Serbian version of Cyrillic was different then the one used by Catholic Croats. There is not only one local historical document where the letters of so called Western Cyrillic, were explicitly called "Croatian script". The same can be said for the local Glagolitic script which is older.

Migration was middle ages some of it that's not language.

Cyrillic is not exclusively Serb

 

[Crya]

Of course it was. I left a link to an article with more detailed explanation. What exact detail have you not found?

Exactly the one that i quoted. It is not there. So what is the source of that sentence?

 

[don_joe]

Derviş Mehmed Zillî (25 March 1611 – 1682), known as Evliya Çeleb, during the 17th century was in Belgrade and wrote that Serbs do not speak as Croats and Bosniaks becouse they speak incorrectly.



There are a couple of branches E1b V13 that do not overlap with Albanians, but there is a greater chance that someone of your ancestors come to Croatia with Vlach migration.

Interesting. But I would say, if it was their mother tongue, it can't be incorrect. He was probably a speaker of some other idiom and he took the other one as his reference.

You're right about these branches, I'm Z16988 just for the info. There are still branches that are present all around, if not this haplo than the others. Sure, about 1/3 of contemporary Croats came as Vlachs from the South to Croatia fleeing from the Ottomans in the 16th century. This changed the language map too. So called Scakavski dialect was replaced with the newcomer's Stokavski in a big part of the land which was amost foreign before. Today it's the official Croatian.

 

[Wonomyro]

It's fascist to not accept that there is a genetic relation to something or someone based on politics it is like what the Ustasha would say and support when they ethnically cleansed them from their historical part of Serbia and Ex Yugo in general.

You are constantly messing up Serbs from Croatia with Serbs from Vojvodina. The personal anecdotes of yout Serbian fiend are not relevent here.

 

[Crya]

Derviş Mehmed Zillî (25 March 1611 – 1682), known as Evliya Çeleb, during the 17th century was in Belgrade and wrote that Serbs do not speak as Croats and Bosniaks becouse they speak incorrectly.

And Turkish explorer could have made a difference between the Slavik languages and to judge which one is correct and which one is not? If it is not funny it would be sad.

 

[Lenab]

You are constantly messing up Serbs from Croatia with Serbs from Vojvodina. The personal anecdotes of yout Serbian fiend are not relevent here.

He is a Croatian with Serb ancestors we are not friends . The problem with our relationship was when I said your ancestors are typical he accused me of being a Serbian nationalist and ​I better make a distinction

 

[Wonomyro]

Exactly the one that i quoted. It is not there. So what is the source of that sentence?

I'd like to answer to you question but I do not know what quote did you not found. Both quotes are from the same article.

Here is the link to the original post so you can check both quotes again:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...ve-than-Slavic?p=559883&viewfull=1#post559883

 

[Lenab]

Yet he claimed he was Anti racist and he is just growing into his Dinaric face/looks I mean duh he's Dinaric and he tries to deny the fact he's Serb that's a oxy moron and a half no wait maybe he's really from Tuscany

 

[don_joe]

Have you any idea what they did in WW2 or after?

Sure, but first, this happened before WWII. A complicated story, too complicated for you. Secondly, my grandfather and other family members were killed by Ustasa. But since you like to google, google which Balkan land gave the most partisans.

 

[Lenab]

Sure, but first, this happened before WWII. A complicated story, too complicated for you. Secondly, my grandfather and other family members were killed by Ustasa. But since you like to google, google which Balkan land gave the most partisans.

And why was that, just because they were ethnic Croatian Partisans? Look what the Croats and Bosnians did during the Ottoman rule look at the peace we all had together before the breakup of Yugoslavia if all of us hated we would not get involved with one another which I attempted to do. I tell my Serbian friends that Croats are related to us also. I don't see how it's complicated if you skip the 400 years of the Ottoman rule and the fact that that's when Croats and Bosnian converted and broke apart

 

[markod]

Croats and Serbs didn't speak same language before 19th century. Croatian and Serbian never branched from unique "Serbo-Croatian" because the latter never existed in reality.

Modern Serbian can only be a doughter language of Croatian. If you think that I am not right, please give us a "solid explanation" in a form of a reiew of a historical development of "Serbo-Croatian literature".

This again? There are no Croatian and Serbian languages, only dialects of Serbo-Croatian as we have definitively established earlier in the thread. Štokavian comprises the majority of Serbo-Croatian speakers, and it is the most conservative of all extant Slavic tongues if Matasovic is to be believed.

What needs to be explained then is how Serbians came to speak Štokavian. Note in this context also the ethnonym 'Serb', which probably quite simply means 'kinsmen, one of us', derived from the Proto-Slavic word for 'suckle' - a very common naming convention among primitive tribes called 'kinship by milk'. In contrast to the very conservative nature of this ethnonym, the Croats adopted a name that in all likelihood is not even linguistically Slavic.

The picture that emerges is that the ancestors of the Serbs were probably an extremely conservative group who never changed their language or traditions much.

 

[Wonomyro]

And why was that, just because they were ethnic Croatian Partisans? Look what the Croats and Bosnians did during the Ottoman rule look at the peace we all had together before the breakup of Yugoslavia if all of us hated we would not get involved with one another which I attempted to do. I tell my Serbian friends that Croats are related to us also. I don't see how it's complicated if you skip the 400 years of the Ottoman rule and the fact that that's when Croats and Bosnian converted and broke apart

Croats never "converted" from anything. Where did you get that from? Serbian propaganda again?

 

[Lenab]

Croats never "converted" from anything. Where did you get that from? Serbian propaganda again?

Yes they converted to being Catholic then they called themselves Croats and moved to Dalmatia.

Why is everything with you Serbian propaganda? Read where Bosnians and Croats moved during the Ottoman rule. You converted to being Catholic then you called yourself Croats your demographics is much smaller than Serbia yet you claim to be indigenous because you inhabit Dalmatia that's Croatian propaganda, not Serbian.

 

[Crya]

I'd like to answer to you question but I do not know what quote did you not found. Both quotes are from the same article.

Here is the link to the original post so you can check both quotes again:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...ve-than-Slavic?p=559883&viewfull=1#post559883

Linking quote again "

When Serbs finally accepted the language "that was used in Croatian schools" the latter was no longer called "Illyrian" but got a new politically correct, but equally ridiculous name "Serbo-Croatian". However, Serbs didn't care about the political corretness and started to call their "new" language (only slightly localized) - Serbian, strightaway."

Where did you find this? It is not in the link you have provided before.​