Are South Slavs more Balkan Native than Slavic?

[Wonomyro]

This is very interesting. I haven't seen modern day Serbian sample on PDF, how we fit there anyone know? Should be somewhere between Croatian and Bulgarians?

Serbians are close to Bulgarians. However, both Bulgarians and Serbians are shifted north from Albaninas mostly due to a Slavic part of their ancestry. Our Bronze Age sample is shifted north due to Bronze Age Steppe newcomers, most probably J2b2/R1b people:

The oldest J2b2-L283 sample recovered among ancient DNA samples is a Late Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) individual from southern Croatia (Mathieson et al. 2017). His genome possessed about 30% of Steppe admixture and 15% of Eastern Hunter-Gatherer, which suggest a recent arrival from the Steppe. He was accompanied by a woman with similar admixtures, and both possessed typical Pontic-Caspian Steppe mtDNA (I1a1 and W3a). The timing, location and admixtures of these samples fit with the Illyrian colonisation of the Dinaric Alps, which is thought to have taken place between 1600 and 1100 BCE. The Illyrians may have been late Steppe migrants from the Volga region that were forced out of the Steppe by the invasion of the northern R1a tribes who established the Srubna culture (from 2000 BCE). Through a founding effect, J2b2-L283 lineages might have considerably increased their original frequency after reaching Illyria.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml#J2b1

 

[mihaitzateo]

Serbians are Slavizied Dacian-Celtic-Germanic mix.
Their Germanic blood seems very strong.

Yugo "South Slavs" from Balkans,are tallest people from the world.
2nd tallest in the world are Scandos and Dutch people.
Bulgarians (which actually have more Slavic input) are not that tall.
I2-din is shared Thracian-Germanic line, not Slavic.Different clades.
Slavs are R1A people, R1A-Z280 Russians, Latvians,Lithuanians and R1A-M458, Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks and the Slavs that came to Balkans, like Croats, Serbs etc.
It these Thracian-Germanic people moved with the Slavic migration of 600 AD and their rulers were speaking Slavic languages, they did not had Slavic way of life neither Slavic genes.
The NE Admixture is present at Finns also, but that does not make Finns Russians.
So this NE Admixture, nobody can prove it was brought by Slavic ethnics and not by East Germanic ethnics.
The genetic testing is not refined enough to make difference on the generic NE admixture, between Finnic people, East Slavic people, West Slavic people and East Germanic people.

Croatians were even called Goths.
So if the Goths-Thracian mix from north of Romania moved under Slavic rulers and adopted the Slavic language, with enough Gothic and Thracian words, that does not makes them Slavs.

A simple proof that Yugos are different from normal Slavs is that they do not like to live in the swamps, neither on plains, but near mountains.
So from my point of view, the pre-Slavic admixture in the Yugos, even for Croats, should be less than Slavs admixture.
Politics made Serbs starting to say they are "Slavs" related to Russians....
See how fast all traditions of Serbs with wolves are wiped.
The very, very common sense and simple proof that Balkan Slavs are having a strong ethnic influence from Celts related to British (Irish not included) Celts, more exactly Welsh Celts, is the fact they see the zmay/dragon as a beneficial creature:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_dragon#Benevolent_zmei_of_the_Balkans

 

[don_joe]

What propaganda are you talking about? The charade coming on this forum when it comes not only to Serbian but Croatian and Albanian history is not my imagination it is the fact. Laberia has also agreed on this. He asked to start the tread about Serbian history and I replied why i think it would become a charade, although the idea is good. The thing that this is more coming in treads about Serbian history IMO is probably because our ancient history is less clear then your. I have never put all Croats, or Albanians into category you are talking about neither I was trying to play victim. I just said that there will always be those kind of people to ruin the treads and in that moment the subject was Serbian history, not Croatian, not Albanian.



I am not buying it ether and all these charades are just sending bad messages to the rest of the world about Balkan that sometimes I am asking my self are we really that primitive? I doubt, but we are not doing much to show the opposite and to overcome disagreements from the last few decades or even a century as you mentioned.

I hope we finally understand each other.

All the best to you and your family.

I apologise if I misinterpreted something. I guess we're just irritated by the same things. I'm looking forward to following all the civilised threads about all our histories.

 

[mihaitzateo]

No offense, but South Slavs related by genetics to Russians,because both are speaking Slavic languages,is one of the greatest forgeries from history.
Bolshevisks from Russia invented this forgery.
Show me a native Russian that is Dinaric race.
Actually a Croat told me that in Poland are some identical heads to Croats that migrated to ex-Yugo countries.
So Yugos elite together with mass of the people actually came from Poland lands and were even in those times a different ethnicity from proto-East-Slavs.

 

[davef]

Can one ignore posts from certain users?
Enlighten me on how to enable this.

Just click/tap Settings, then in the next page you'll see a menu labeled "my settings" to the left of your screen. In that menu click "edit ignore list" and enter in the name of the user you want to ignore

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

No offense, but South Slavs related by genetics to Russians,because both are speaking Slavic languages,is one of the greatest forgeries from history.
Bolshevisks from Russia invented this forgery.
Show me a native Russian that is Dinaric race.
Actually a Croat told me that in Poland are some identical heads to Croats that migrated to ex-Yugo countries.
So Yugos elite together with mass of the people actually came from Poland lands and were even in those times a different ethnicity from proto-East-Slavs.[/QUOTE

South Slavs are the intruders of Balkans. They should not have been here! Main contributor for them being here is Roman empire that failed to protect people they enslaved. After Slavic presence in Balkans a long time of Dark age started, wars and all kinds and bad citizenry.

 

[Sile]

Serbians are Slavizied Dacian-Celtic-Germanic mix.
Their Germanic blood seems very strong.
Yugo "South Slavs" from Balkans,are tallest people from the world.
2nd tallest in the world are Scandos and Dutch people.
Bulgarians (which actually have more Slavic input) are not that tall.
I2-din is shared Thracian-Germanic line, not Slavic.Different clades.
Slavs are R1A people, R1A-Z280 Russians, Latvians,Lithuanians and R1A-M458, Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks and the Slavs that came to Balkans, like Croats, Serbs etc.
It these Thracian-Germanic people moved with the Slavic migration of 600 AD and their rulers were speaking Slavic languages, they did not had Slavic way of life neither Slavic genes.
The NE Admixture is present at Finns also, but that does not make Finns Russians.
So this NE Admixture, nobody can prove it was brought by Slavic ethnics and not by East Germanic ethnics.
The genetic testing is not refined enough to make difference on the generic NE admixture, between Finnic people, East Slavic people, West Slavic people and East Germanic people.
Croatians were even called Goths.
So if the Goths-Thracian mix from north of Romania moved under Slavic rulers and adopted the Slavic language, with enough Gothic and Thracian words, that does not makes them Slavs.
A simple proof that Yugos are different from normal Slavs is that they do not like to live in the swamps, neither on plains, but near mountains.
So from my point of view, the pre-Slavic admixture in the Yugos, even for Croats, should be less than Slavs admixture.
Politics made Serbs starting to say they are "Slavs" related to Russians....
See how fast all traditions of Serbs with wolves are wiped.
The very, very common sense and simple proof that Balkan Slavs are having a strong ethnic influence from Celts related to British (Irish not included) Celts, more exactly Welsh Celts, is the fact they see the zmay/dragon as a beneficial creature:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_dragon#Benevolent_zmei_of_the_Balkans

The Goths where in the balkans for 150 years, from ~350 to ~500 AD
some croat and other euro scholars state that the croats are mostly of illyrian stock and became "slavic" due to linguistic changes and not people change.
Historical sources, particularly those from the mid-sixth century onward, indubitably speak of the settlement of certain ethnic groups from Northern Europe in the Central Balkans. Written sources and archaeological artefacts testify to the arrival of the Goths in the territory of Roman Dalmatia, and their rule in this area. Procopius said that the Goths in Dalmatia and Liburnia, after the end of their rule in the sixth century, were induced to remain by the Byzantine commander Constantianus, so that they did not emigrate from these regions. Anthropological and craniometrical investigations confirm that a slight number of new inhabitants settled in the central section of today’s Croatia. It is impossible to imagine that in the fifth, sixth or seventh century, or indeed anytime earlier, the until then unknown “Sclavini” rather suddenly appeared, and that they were so numerous that they conquered, in addition to other areas, the entire Balkans. Such a migration is confirmed neither by historical sources nor by archaeological finds. The continuity of numerous remains from the “Illyrian era“ of prehistoric culture of the indigenous inhabitants unquestionably proves the supremacy of the indigenous element in the ethnic sense.

.
they say they have proof they came from ...Dalmatians, Histrians, Liburnians, Harabiates, Heravasci, these were all Illyrian tribes
.
while the serbs came from ....Triballians, Serdians, Odryssians, Bessians, these were all Thracian tribes living in the territories of Serbia, Bulgaria and a small part of what is Macedonia today. actually the Serbia Government use a triballi symbol for their COA

 

[Wonomyro]

South Slavs are the intruders of Balkans. They should not have been here! Main contributor for them being here is Roman empire that failed to protect people they enslaved. After Slavic presence in Balkans a long time of Dark age started, wars and all kinds and bad citizenry.

That what you wrote is not only chauvinistic and uncivilized, but also not correct from the historical point of view.

 

[mihaitzateo]

No offense, but South Slavs related by genetics to Russians,because both are speaking Slavic languages,is one of the greatest forgeries from history.
Bolshevisks from Russia invented this forgery.
Show me a native Russian that is Dinaric race.
Actually a Croat told me that in Poland are some identical heads to Croats that migrated to ex-Yugo countries.
So Yugos elite together with mass of the people actually came from Poland lands and were even in those times a different ethnicity from proto-East-Slavs.[/QUOTE

South Slavs are the intruders of Balkans. They should not have been here! Main contributor for them being here is Roman empire that failed to protect people they enslaved. After Slavic presence in Balkans a long time of Dark age started, wars and all kinds and bad citizenry.

My post was not intended to tell that South Slavs are evil, just to present the fact that Bosnians, Croats and Serbians are indeed have plenty of blood from migrants into Balkans, but their blood is for sure not close to Eastern Slavs.For Slovenes, they seem to me rather Germanic people than Balkanic.
For the moment you cannot make a difference between Slavic admixture and East Germanics admixture, but is quite clear they did not had identical genetics.
The height of Bosnians, Serbs, Croats suggests East Germanics and the other admixture, Dacians.
I think that if the Serbs, Bosnians and Croats will accept they fact they are mostly Germanic people, will be a lot more peace into Balkans and their countries will get very, very developed as we see in Slovenia.
Since most Serbians started to say and think they are close to Russians, Serbia is experiencing one of the worst periods of their history.
I think Serbia was more rich and developed, when it was occupied by Nazis, in WW2, than it is now.
Also, I shown above some common customs to Welsh people with the Dragons as beneficial beings, which were also present at Dacians.

Montenegrins racially cluster close to Albanians.

 

[Wonomyro]

The Goths where in the balkans for 150 years, from ~350 to ~500 AD
some croat and other euro scholars state that the croats are mostly of illyrian stock and became "slavic" due to linguistic changes and not people change.
Historical sources, particularly those from the mid-sixth century onward, indubitably speak of the settlement of certain ethnic groups from Northern Europe in the Central Balkans. Written sources and archaeological artefacts testify to the arrival of the Goths in the territory of Roman Dalmatia, and their rule in this area. Procopius said that the Goths in Dalmatia and Liburnia, after the end of their rule in the sixth century, were induced to remain by the Byzantine commander Constantianus, so that they did not emigrate from these regions. Anthropological and craniometrical investigations confirm that a slight number of new inhabitants settled in the central section of today’s Croatia. It is impossible to imagine that in the fifth, sixth or seventh century, or indeed anytime earlier, the until then unknown “Sclavini” rather suddenly appeared, and that they were so numerous that they conquered, in addition to other areas, the entire Balkans. Such a migration is confirmed neither by historical sources nor by archaeological finds. The continuity of numerous remains from the “Illyrian era“ of prehistoric culture of the indigenous inhabitants unquestionably proves the supremacy of the indigenous element in the ethnic sense.

If we talk about Dalmatia, these scholars are looking into a wrong period. They should check out the end of 8th and the beginning of 9th century. That is the time of a fall of Avar Khaganate and and establishment of new polities on the former Avar controlled territory.

 

[Angela]

No offense, but South Slavs related by genetics to Russians,because both are speaking Slavic languages,is one of the greatest forgeries from history.
Bolshevisks from Russia invented this forgery.
Show me a native Russian that is Dinaric race.
Actually a Croat told me that in Poland are some identical heads to Croats that migrated to ex-Yugo countries.
So Yugos elite together with mass of the people actually came from Poland lands and were even in those times a different ethnicity from proto-East-Slavs.[/QUOTE

South Slavs are the intruders of Balkans. They should not have been here! Main contributor for them being here is Roman empire that failed to protect people they enslaved. After Slavic presence in Balkans a long time of Dark age started, wars and all kinds and bad citizenry.

What nonsense. They bankrupted themselves trying to hold off this newest round of Barbarian invasions. Nor were the people all "enslaved". It was a thriving, rich area until this period. You're forgetting a little thing like the plague, too, which decimated the Balkans.

Do read some history, won't you, and not whatever passes for history in the various ultra-nationalist sites: real history, written by real historian using contemporary writings, archaeology etc. Throw in the genetics papers too.

A good one for lay people, not too difficult: Justinian's Flea

"[FONT=&quot] Rosen sets out to establish the forces that transformed the Mediterranean world of late antiquity into medieval Europe, and in his view the major force was the bubonic plague. Justinian's Flea is a massively ambitious work that covers a great deal of ground. It is a history of the eastern Roman empire and its many enemies, as well as a survey of the great city of Constantinople, a new Rome straddling seven hills and smelling strongly of fermented fish sauce. But this book also contains a detailed account of the evolution of the bubonic plague and how it weakened the empire's resistance to the conquering armies of Muhammad. It discusses how the Roman empire's collapse gave birth to the proto-nations within it, and how the rise of Islam helped to shape the identity of the European superstate of Christendom. If we add to this a potted history of China and the importance of the Silk Road, as well as the life cycle of another history-altering insect, the mulberry leaf-eating moth Bombyx mori (commonly known in its larval stage as the silkworm), then we begin to see the scope of Rosen's ambition."

[/FONT]"[FONT=&quot]The emperor began life as a peasant from the Balkan hill-town of Tauresium, although the astonishing social mobility of the times is perhaps even better exemplified by his wife Theodora, a bearkeeper's daughter and prostitute-turned-"racy comedienne", who once lamented the fact that "Nature had constructed her so that she could only have sex via three orifices". Actually, this anecdote comes from the historian Procopius's Anekdota or Secret History, which was not discovered until 1623 and is far from objective. However, his History of the Wars is highly valued, not least because it contains an account of the arrival of the plague in Constantinople and, as Rosen observes, Procopius's description of the disease is extremely accurate. Throughout Justinian's Flea Rosen makes good use of these precious eyewitness accounts."[/FONT]

They were so enslaved that they could become emperors. Do you people know nothing of the history of your own region?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/05/featuresreviews.guardianreview9

 

[Fatherland]

What nonsense. They bankrupted themselves trying to hold off this newest round of Barbarian invasions. Nor were the people all "enslaved". It was a thriving, rich area until this period. You're forgetting a little thing like the plague, too, which decimated the Balkans.

Do read some history, won't you, and not whatever passes for history in the various ultra-nationalist sites: real history, written by real historian using contemporary writings, archaeology etc. Throw in the genetics papers too.

A good one for lay people, not too difficult: Justinian's Flea

" Rosen sets out to establish the forces that transformed the Mediterranean world of late antiquity into medieval Europe, and in his view the major force was the bubonic plague. Justinian's Flea is a massively ambitious work that covers a great deal of ground. It is a history of the eastern Roman empire and its many enemies, as well as a survey of the great city of Constantinople, a new Rome straddling seven hills and smelling strongly of fermented fish sauce. But this book also contains a detailed account of the evolution of the bubonic plague and how it weakened the empire's resistance to the conquering armies of Muhammad. It discusses how the Roman empire's collapse gave birth to the proto-nations within it, and how the rise of Islam helped to shape the identity of the European superstate of Christendom. If we add to this a potted history of China and the importance of the Silk Road, as well as the life cycle of another history-altering insect, the mulberry leaf-eating moth Bombyx mori (commonly known in its larval stage as the silkworm), then we begin to see the scope of Rosen's ambition."

"The emperor began life as a peasant from the Balkan hill-town of Tauresium, although the astonishing social mobility of the times is perhaps even better exemplified by his wife Theodora, a bearkeeper's daughter and prostitute-turned-"racy comedienne", who once lamented the fact that "Nature had constructed her so that she could only have sex via three orifices". Actually, this anecdote comes from the historian Procopius's Anekdota or Secret History, which was not discovered until 1623 and is far from objective. However, his History of the Wars is highly valued, not least because it contains an account of the arrival of the plague in Constantinople and, as Rosen observes, Procopius's description of the disease is extremely accurate. Throughout Justinian's Flea Rosen makes good use of these precious eyewitness accounts."

They were so enslaved that they could become emperors. Do you people know nothing of the history of your own region?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/05/featuresreviews.guardianreview9

This map is truly interesting. Romanian author of it, shows the pre-Slavic Balkan:

 

[Aspar]

What nonsense. They bankrupted themselves trying to hold off this newest round of Barbarian invasions. Nor were the people all "enslaved". It was a thriving, rich area until this period. You're forgetting a little thing like the plague, too, which decimated the Balkans.

Do read some history, won't you, and not whatever passes for history in the various ultra-nationalist sites: real history, written by real historian using contemporary writings, archaeology etc. Throw in the genetics papers too.

A good one for lay people, not too difficult: Justinian's Flea

" Rosen sets out to establish the forces that transformed the Mediterranean world of late antiquity into medieval Europe, and in his view the major force was the bubonic plague. Justinian's Flea is a massively ambitious work that covers a great deal of ground. It is a history of the eastern Roman empire and its many enemies, as well as a survey of the great city of Constantinople, a new Rome straddling seven hills and smelling strongly of fermented fish sauce. But this book also contains a detailed account of the evolution of the bubonic plague and how it weakened the empire's resistance to the conquering armies of Muhammad. It discusses how the Roman empire's collapse gave birth to the proto-nations within it, and how the rise of Islam helped to shape the identity of the European superstate of Christendom. If we add to this a potted history of China and the importance of the Silk Road, as well as the life cycle of another history-altering insect, the mulberry leaf-eating moth Bombyx mori (commonly known in its larval stage as the silkworm), then we begin to see the scope of Rosen's ambition."

"The emperor began life as a peasant from the Balkan hill-town of Tauresium, although the astonishing social mobility of the times is perhaps even better exemplified by his wife Theodora, a bearkeeper's daughter and prostitute-turned-"racy comedienne", who once lamented the fact that "Nature had constructed her so that she could only have sex via three orifices". Actually, this anecdote comes from the historian Procopius's Anekdota or Secret History, which was not discovered until 1623 and is far from objective. However, his History of the Wars is highly valued, not least because it contains an account of the arrival of the plague in Constantinople and, as Rosen observes, Procopius's description of the disease is extremely accurate. Throughout Justinian's Flea Rosen makes good use of these precious eyewitness accounts."

They were so enslaved that they could become emperors. Do you people know nothing of the history of your own region?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2007/may/05/featuresreviews.guardianreview9

Just a note, Justinian was a Roman, believed to be of Thraco-Illyrian origins whose mother tongue was the Vulgar Latin language!
So, he certainly wasn't enslaved nor a barbarian!
We don't know about the "others" though, those who didn't speak Latin, who didn't live in the cities, who were seen as barbarians in the eyes of the Romans because they didn't want to accept "their ways"!
We know about the recruitment of auxiliary troops though, from the ranks of the Illyrians and Thracians by the Romans!
This recruitment, could of been by force or not for all we know, however we know about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_Batonianum

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

My post was not intended to tell that South Slavs are evil, just to present the fact that Bosnians, Croats and Serbians are indeed have plenty of blood from migrants into Balkans, but their blood is for sure not close to Eastern Slavs.For Slovenes, they seem to me rather Germanic people than Balkanic.
For the moment you cannot make a difference between Slavic admixture and East Germanics admixture, but is quite clear they did not had identical genetics.
The height of Bosnians, Serbs, Croats suggests East Germanics and the other admixture, Dacians.
I think that if the Serbs, Bosnians and Croats will accept they fact they are mostly Germanic people, will be a lot more peace into Balkans and their countries will get very, very developed as we see in Slovenia.
Since most Serbians started to say and think they are close to Russians, Serbia is experiencing one of the worst periods of their history.
I think Serbia was more rich and developed, when it was occupied by Nazis, in WW2, than it is now.
Also, I shown above some common customs to Welsh people with the Dragons as beneficial beings, which were also present at Dacians.

Montenegrins racially cluster close to Albanians.

I think I have previously debated with you the term Montenegrin. Montenegrin's are a mixed community. Total population 660 000 people. Out of them: 250 000 ethnic Serbs. 40 000 ethnic Albanians. 60 000 Bosnia's. Also Turkish, Croatian and Gypsy? I don't know the numbers! So At best 300 000 people call themselves Montenegrin. They speak Serbian. So there is not a single reason to call them ethnicity. Montenegro was a Russian creation to steal Albanian lands. They were successful on that. How long will going to last? Who Knows?

 

[LABERIA]

Just a note, Justinian was a Roman, believed to be of Thraco-Illyrian origins whose mother tongue was the Vulgar Latin language!
So, he certainly wasn't enslaved nor a barbarian!
We don't know about the "others" though, those who didn't speak Latin, who didn't live in the cities, who were seen as barbarians in the eyes of the Romans because they didn't want to accept "their ways"!
We know about the recruitment of auxiliary troops though, from the ranks of the Illyrians and Thracians by the Romans!
This recruitment, could of been by force or not for all we know, however we know about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_Batonianum

So Justinian was a Vlach, this is what are you trying to say?

 

[LABERIA]

This map is truly interesting. Romanian author of it, shows the pre-Slavic Balkan:

The Romanians have on their side with Hungarians this discussion of their autochthony in the territories where they live now. For this, i would be careful before saying that this is a good map.

 

[Lenab]

Albanians represented as Kosovars behind them are Macedonians,Bulgarians and Romanians with similar ancestry.If i follow the later they have more Daco-Thracian ancestry,one Thracian sample was very EEF like,for comparison "Illyrian" sample from Croatia had 30% steppe ancestry and 15% EHG.
Maybe the Illyrians were more northern shifted than Thraco-Dacians?

Or yes I just of just explained like that thank you oh and sometimes Serbs ( sometimes )

 

[Lenab]

I’m a Southern Italian from the land of the Messapi (Salento/Puglia), and I'm more Tuscan than Greek.
I'm fine either way.

I guess it's because of the Roman Greekness in South Italy and not just the Greekness so they are shifting you Roman Greek rather than Greek Roman I don't think anywhere is homogeneous. With migration people always look at the first ancestor and say that's homogeneous and everything after that is simply migration and mixture from abroad. But people migrate in different times for different reasons so it's not set in stone that everyone in South Italy is Greek or even Greco Roman but with you, it's the other way round.

 

[LABERIA]

Yeah i agree with you, that would be interesting but i am not the right person to start the tread especially because my knowledge of genetic is limited. Also, maybe it is too early since there are limited genetic evidence to show where the Serbs came from to a Balkan as far as i know. I saw some thread here on Eupedia when someone tried to touch this subject which completely failed and turned into a charade. The last attempt that i saw was something written by Vlad82 and i believe he is on the good path and will post something in the near future when there will be enough data to be analized and support his claims.

It's not i had only genetics in my mind when i asked you to start this thread. Of course, genetics is important in this discussion, but when we talk about the ethnogenesis of a nation, etc, the subject is much broader.

 

[mihaitzateo]

A thing that is not told on this thread but is mentioned in the history:
Croats were living previously to their migration somewhere in North of Romania, in the SW of current Ukraine land.
Now, in that area there is plenty of I2-din.
I do not think is mentioned how much time Croats lived in that area, but a very plausible hypothesis is that White Croats took I2-din from that area, North of Romania.
To whom this I2-din belonged, well to the Thracian-Gothic population that was there and which very likely was Slavizied.
Croats were living there and moved because of Avars during the Slavic king Samo, which seems to have been of Frankish origins.
Croats revolted against their Avar masters but were defeated and Byzantine Empire gave them the permission to settle in current lands of Croatia, as refugees. Otherwise, is possible that Avars would have killed lots of Croats.
Later, Serbians migrated also and they occupied land Eastwards of Croatians, because Croatians took the land more Westward, as they migrated passing through current Hungary lands.
I think is quite common sense.
A thing is that Croatians could have already taken Eastern Balkan admixture from Thracians-Goths mixed which they assimilated North of Romania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Croats
This info comes from Nestor chronicle but also from the Byzantine kings.
Samo is not legend, he actually existed.
So no, Croats are not here because Roman Empire did not protected these lands, but because they were saved and granted land by the Byzantine Empire.