Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 13 of 13 FirstFirst ... 3111213
Results 301 to 317 of 317

Thread: New conference on Bronze Age mobility in Europe

  1. #301
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Alyan View Post
    Pan troglodytes have at least as much genetic diversity as homo sapiens.
    I honestly need to ask you: what do you exactly mean in this context? I just hope it's not what I am thinking...

  2. #302
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    13-05-18
    Posts
    154
    Points
    4,135
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,135, Level: 18
    Level completed: 72%, Points required for next Level: 115
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: United States



    The point was even if Winters claims on genetic diversity were so then it wouldn't lead to some superiority or whatever you call it.

  3. #303
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,386
    Points
    6,455
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,455, Level: 23
    Level completed: 81%, Points required for next Level: 95
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Alyan View Post
    The point was even if Winters claims on genetic diversity were so then it wouldn't lead to some superiority or whatever you call it.
    No i think the point was " R1 came from Africa, therefore, Europeans are mostly R1, so ,most Europeans are whitened Africans, therefore, real Africans are superior than Europeans " Something on those lines.

  4. #304
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,813
    Points
    89,472
    Level
    93
    Points: 89,472, Level: 93
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 1,778
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Good news, parts of the event will be filmed, and posted to Youtube. Here is an e-mail response I received from the person in-charge of coordinating the event:



    This is the official Youtube page of OREA:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgr...f_7Dg70rcW5bMw

  5. #305
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    17-03-16
    Posts
    526
    Points
    5,076
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,076, Level: 21
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 474
    Overall activity: 30.0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Pygmalion View Post
    I don't think anyone here doubts that the Carthaginians conquered Sardinia, I only doubt that they left much of a genetic impact because that's what the genetic evidence suggests.



    That's Pausanias referring to the mythical past of Sardinia. He said that the North of the Tyrsus river lived the Libyans and the natives, and South of the Tyrsus lived the Trojans and Greeks, and that they avoided fighting because they were equal in number, of course this can't be taken as a historical account.
    I don't think he says what you write exactly.

    Basically in his text there is something that could explain low Punic admixture, the fact Carthaginians used 'Iberian' and 'Libyan' mercenaries, according to that account.

    Concerning these 'Libyans' there's also the possibility of a copying mistake or confusion based on the similarities between Libues vs Ligues, Libici etc.

    The linguistic affiliation of Ligurians is uncertain either way, so it would be worth considering if the Ligues, Ligures, Libici and whatnot of Europe have anything in common with North African Libues apart from the similar sounding names. I am not talking necessarily about a movement from N Africa. Even if an account is wrong there should be something that leads to that mistake.

    If I was writing a scientific study I would have been very cautious but now that I'm not doing that, I'm considering the texts reflect real movements from 1) NW Anatolia, 2) Spain and either 3) Liguria or N. Africa

  6. #306
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,382
    Points
    38,681
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,681, Level: 60
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    points
    Northern Italy (Bergamo Valleys and plain, Tortona-Voghera and Borbera Valley) is characterised by an extremely high incidence of the R1b
    haplogroup (69.0%) when compared to all the other main haplogroups whose frequencies do not reach 10%. This haplogroup, which characterises a wide portion of the gene pool of the examined populations, shows a decreasing frequency pattern from North to South Italy, where it shows its lowest incidence (27.5%). This pattern is virtually totally ascribable to R1b-U152, the most represented R1b sub-lineage, whereas no frequency gradients were detected for the other sub-lineages. R1b-S116*(xU152, M529) is equally represented in all the Italian populations (Figure 3, dusty rose sector in secondary pies). This shows the highest frequencies in two isolated areas of Northern Italy: Borbera Valley (12.9%) and Bergamo Valleys (17.9%). The frequency peak is particularly noticeable in Bergamo Valleys in comparison to the neighbouring plain area (17.9% vs 3.8%, respectively, p < .01).
    [...]
    Thus, taking into account that the highest reported incidence of R1b-S116*(xU152, M529) is in Iberia (Adams et al., 2008 Adams SM, Bosch E, Balaresque PL, Ballereau SJ, Lee AC, Arroyo E, López-Parra AM, et al. 2008. The genetic legacy of religious diversity and intolerance: paternal lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula. Am J Hum Genet 83:725–736.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]; Myres et al., 2011 Myres NM, Rootsi S, Lin AA, Järve M, King RJ, Kutuev I, Cabrera VM, et al. 2011. A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19:95–101.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]), its high frequency
    in the relatively isolated populations of the Bergamo and Borbera Valleys could represent the outcome of ancient gene flow from that area, possibly magnified by genetic drift. On the other hand, R1b-M412*, so far described only in Turkey, Iran, Cyprus and Crete (Myres et al., 2011 Myres NM, Rootsi S, Lin AA, Järve M, King RJ, Kutuev I, Cabrera VM, et al. 2011. A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19:95–101.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]; Voskarides et al., 2016 Voskarides K, Mazières S, Hadjipanagi D, Di Cristofaro J, Ignatiou A, Stefanou C, King RJ, et al. 2016. Y-chromosome phylogeographic analysis of the Greek-Cypriot population reveals elements consistent with Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements. Investig Genet 7:1.[Crossref], [PubMed], , [Google Scholar]), is observed in all the four Southern Italian samples, all from the ancient Magna Graecia area, but only sporadically in population groups from Northern Italy. The R1b-M412* Y chromosomes could, therefore, represent the legacy of an Eastern Mediterranean input associated with the early Hellenic colonisation, and/or the more recent Byzantine domination. This scenario is supported by the high frequency of R1b-M412* in the Griko-speaking community of Grecìa Salentina (13.4%), where haplogroup R1b-M412* probably reflects ancient colonisation events from Greek-speaking islands rather than continental Greece

    .
    A point of view
    Y-R1b-M472 = Y-R1b-L51 if I dont mistake.
    Come in Italy from Greece ? Possible. But with Mycenians or well defined Greeks ? I doubt. Its presence would be very older in Italy, and come as well from South as from North.
    Its level presence in Italy as opposed to the gradiant North-South of grandgrand daughter Y-R1b-U152 is uneasy to analyse. It could be as well the result of at some stage a denser pop of M472 in North than in South and its capacity there to give birth to downstream SNPs. Very often I read people thinking that every SNP level marks a different pop, as if children were not of the same family as their parents ! Yes, there are and there has been founder effects changing drastically the proportions of diverse up- and down-stream SNPs. So giving the impression of different pops sometimes, but the downstream SNPs are born by upstream SNPs (do I say again! LOL). Genetics is dynamics.
    A conservative pop concerning SNP (old, upstream) is not by force living in the cradle, or at least not by force the precise geographic source of a diaspora, I said that already. Of course, this conservative pop and its place of life is not more by force too far of the called cradle.
    Concerning Iberia, and S116/P312, the domination of Iberia is rather tiny, and by the way its downstream to M412/L51, so not sure to mark a cradle . In Italy its rather level, according to someones, but not always, and here again, some strongholds are in Northern Italy in isolated highlands places ; one can say its the proof of a layer of more ancient pop. Maybe, not proved !

    Here again, same reasoning of mine : these less peopled areas are by force the one where the new downstream SNPs had less chances to be born. Paradoxe: a far place rich in upstreams and poor in downstream is seen as the "parent" of places rich in downstream and poor in upstream, and a same kind of place BUT close is seen as excluded from the possible "parent"... we need clear gradual trail.
    I have no cristal bowl, so I affirm nothing, but I take some caution with some mainstream deductions concerning places of birth of SNP. What works well with very distinct lineages can mistake us with close lineages.

    Maybe I am wrong all the way. My brain is tired, my 70s are approaching dangerously. Dont send me flowers. A bottle of whisky perhpas ?...

  7. #307
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,813
    Points
    89,472
    Level
    93
    Points: 89,472, Level: 93
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 1,778
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Here's another Youtube page associated with the organization.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_N...S7z3Q/featured

    Hopefully they'll post those videos soon.

  8. #308
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Here's another Youtube page associated with the organization.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_N...S7z3Q/featured

    Hopefully they'll post those videos soon.
    Check Twitter, it’s gonna be a while until they’ve finished censoring

  9. #309
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,813
    Points
    89,472
    Level
    93
    Points: 89,472, Level: 93
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 1,778
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Good news, parts of the event will be filmed, and posted to Youtube. Here is an e-mail response I received from the person in-charge of coordinating the event:



    This is the official Youtube page of OREA:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgr...f_7Dg70rcW5bMw
    The videos have been posted to their Youtube page!

  10. #310
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,813
    Points
    89,472
    Level
    93
    Points: 89,472, Level: 93
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 1,778
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Mobility of people in Northern Italy Bronze Age communities investigated through isotope analyses



    Here's the lecture on Bronze-Age Northern Italy.

    "Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations" with Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich has not been published. Though it still might be, considering OREA just uploaded a new one today. Most of these were posted on the 14th.

  11. #311
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    I1a3_Young's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-05-17
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    522
    Points
    8,250
    Level
    27
    Points: 8,250, Level: 27
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 500
    Overall activity: 19.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 Z63*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5b1

    Ethnic group
    Basically British
    Country: USA - Arkansas



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Mobility of people in Northern Italy Bronze Age communities investigated through isotope analyses



    Here's the lecture on Bronze-Age Northern Italy.

    "Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations" with Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich has not been published. Though it still might be, considering OREA just uploaded a new one today. Most of these were posted on the 14th.
    Fantastic

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Eupedia Forum mobile app
    Administrator of the Young Family Project
    Genetic genealogy enthusiast

  12. #312
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,032
    Points
    23,189
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,189, Level: 46
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Mobility of people in Northern Italy Bronze Age communities investigated through isotope analyses


    Here's the lecture on Bronze-Age Northern Italy.

    "Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations" with Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich has not been published.
    The text in bold comes from another study.

  13. #313
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,116


    Country: United Kingdom



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    New talk:


  14. #314
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,329
    Points
    280,987
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,987, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    No surprises, but a good review for those unfamiliar with the Terramare Culture.

    Without ancient dna we can't be sure, but the archaeological track from the Danubian plain into Terramare in the Po Plain and Emilia, and then beyond into Central and Southern Italy after its collapse is mirrored by very high genetic correlation between Italians and Bronze Age Hungary.

    Anyone have a genetic breakdown of Bronze Age Hungary handy?

    The tie with the Sea Peoples is again not knew. As some of us have been saying forever, the gene flow went both ways across the Adriatic. Interesting too that she shows a map pointing toward the Peloponnese, the area of mainland Greece with the highest genetic similarity to Italy, and Crete, where there is also a lot of similarity. That's of course in addition to all the shared Neolithic ancestry.

    I wildly speculated years ago, way back when I was active on the 23andme forums, that perhaps some of the people who attacked and then mixed with the inhabitants of the coastal Levant were from Italy and that this might help to account for some of the more "western Mediterranean" admixture in Jews. As I said, complete speculation. We need ancient dna besides the swords and other artifacts.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  15. #315
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranTagger Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-08-12
    Posts
    357
    Points
    9,350
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,350, Level: 28
    Level completed: 50%, Points required for next Level: 600
    Overall activity: 8.0%


    Country: Italy



    Basically she's confirming that Terramare are an Alpine (Polada) and Danubian mix if i'm not wrong

    Utilizzando Tapatalk

  16. #316
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,032
    Points
    23,189
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,189, Level: 46
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Towards a new osteometric method for sexing ancient cremated human remains. Analysis of Late Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Italy with gendered grave goods


    • Claudio Cavazzuti ,
    • Benedetta Bresadola,
    • Chiara d’Innocenzo,
    • Stella Interlando,
    • Alessandra Sperduti







    Abstract

    Sex estimation of human remains is one of the most important research steps for physical anthropologists and archaeologists dealing with funerary contexts and trying to reconstruct the demographic structure of ancient societies. However, it is well known that in the case of cremations sex assessment might be complicated by the destructive/transformative effect of the fire on bones. Osteometric standards built on unburned human remains and contemporary cremated series are often inadequate for the analysis of ancient cremations, and frequently result in a significant number of misclassifications. This work is an attempt to overcome the scarcity of methods that could be applied to pre-proto-historic Italy and serve as methodological comparison for other European contexts. A set of 24 anatomical traits were measured on 124 Bronze Age and Iron Age cremated individuals with clearly engendered grave goods. Assuming gender largely correlated to sex, male and female distributions of each individual trait measured were compared to evaluate sexual dimorphism through inferential statistics and Chaktaborty and Majumder’s index. The discriminatory power of each variable was evaluated by cross-validation tests. Eight variables yielded an accuracy equal to or greater than 80%. Four of these variables also show a similar degree of precision for both sexes. The most diagnostic measurements are from radius, patella, mandible, talus, femur, first metatarsal, lunate and humerus. Overall, the degree of sexual dimorphism and the reliability of estimates obtained from our series are similar to those of a modern cremated sample recorded by Gonçalves and collaborators. Nevertheless, mean values of the male and female distributions in our case study are lower, and the application of the cut-off point calculated from the modern sample to our ancient individuals produces a considerable number of misclassifications. This result confirms the need to build population-specific methods for sexing the cremated remains of ancient individuals.

  17. #317
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    04-09-16
    Posts
    491
    Points
    1,935
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,935, Level: 12
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 215
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Portugal



    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Towards a new osteometric method for sexing ancient cremated human remains. Analysis of Late Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Italy with gendered grave goods


    • Claudio Cavazzuti ,
    • Benedetta Bresadola,
    • Chiara d’Innocenzo,
    • Stella Interlando,
    • Alessandra Sperduti







    Abstract

    Sex estimation of human remains is one of the most important research steps for physical anthropologists and archaeologists dealing with funerary contexts and trying to reconstruct the demographic structure of ancient societies. However, it is well known that in the case of cremations sex assessment might be complicated by the destructive/transformative effect of the fire on bones. Osteometric standards built on unburned human remains and contemporary cremated series are often inadequate for the analysis of ancient cremations, and frequently result in a significant number of misclassifications. This work is an attempt to overcome the scarcity of methods that could be applied to pre-proto-historic Italy and serve as methodological comparison for other European contexts. A set of 24 anatomical traits were measured on 124 Bronze Age and Iron Age cremated individuals with clearly engendered grave goods. Assuming gender largely correlated to sex, male and female distributions of each individual trait measured were compared to evaluate sexual dimorphism through inferential statistics and Chaktaborty and Majumder’s index. The discriminatory power of each variable was evaluated by cross-validation tests. Eight variables yielded an accuracy equal to or greater than 80%. Four of these variables also show a similar degree of precision for both sexes. The most diagnostic measurements are from radius, patella, mandible, talus, femur, first metatarsal, lunate and humerus. Overall, the degree of sexual dimorphism and the reliability of estimates obtained from our series are similar to those of a modern cremated sample recorded by Gonçalves and collaborators. Nevertheless, mean values of the male and female distributions in our case study are lower, and the application of the cut-off point calculated from the modern sample to our ancient individuals produces a considerable number of misclassifications. This result confirms the need to build population-specific methods for sexing the cremated remains of ancient individuals.
    Pax,
    The study keeps referring Goncalves (David) and Pires (Ana)... at the time (2016) I had just finished writing my shulaveri-Shomu hypothesis, but on Fridays my daughter was on Chemotherapy and I used to sit at a chair (Kids do chemo with parents sited next) and there was a 3 year old kid every Friday that seated in front of my daughter, Luca, and he just adored my daughter. One day the parents asked us for a coffee on a Sunday. To cut short imagine me being immersed in Shulaveri Shomu, archaeogenetic, Adna…. And when I asked what they did for a living they were very embarrassed to explain not knowing how. Ana Elizabete talked for a minute. I smiled and said really? I am particularly interested in the Chalcolithic ancient dna, Y-dna, Mtdna, autosomal, bla bla bla….they couldn’t believe I knew about the subject matte they investigated for a living and what were the odds two Portuguese meeting in that way, and both even knowing about that matter.
    I have their phone number…. But I don’t know what happened to Luca (it was really, really bad) and today still never find the courage to call or ask.
    What a gentle soul Luca is…
    From Shulaveri Shomu to Bell Beakers
    (https://shulaveri2bellbeaker.blogs.sapo.pt/)

Page 13 of 13 FirstFirst ... 3111213

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •