points
Northern Italy (Bergamo Valleys and plain, Tortona-Voghera and Borbera Valley) is characterised by an extremely high incidence of the R1b
haplogroup (69.0%) when compared to all the other main haplogroups whose frequencies do not reach 10%. This haplogroup, which characterises a wide portion of the gene pool of the examined populations, shows a decreasing frequency pattern from North to South Italy, where it shows its lowest incidence (27.5%). This pattern is virtually totally ascribable to R1b-U152, the most represented R1b sub-lineage, whereas no frequency gradients were detected for the other sub-lineages. R1b-S116*(xU152, M529) is equally represented in all the Italian populations (Figure 3, dusty rose sector in secondary pies). This shows the highest frequencies in two isolated areas of Northern Italy: Borbera Valley (12.9%) and Bergamo Valleys (17.9%). The frequency peak is particularly noticeable in Bergamo Valleys in comparison to the neighbouring plain area (17.9% vs 3.8%, respectively, p < .01).
[...]
Thus, taking into account that the highest reported incidence of R1b-S116*(xU152, M529) is in Iberia (Adams et al., 2008 Adams SM, Bosch E, Balaresque PL, Ballereau SJ, Lee AC, Arroyo E, López-Parra AM, et al. 2008. The genetic legacy of religious diversity and intolerance: paternal lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula. Am J Hum Genet 83:725–736.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]; Myres et al., 2011 Myres NM, Rootsi S, Lin AA, Järve M, King RJ, Kutuev I, Cabrera VM, et al. 2011. A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19:95–101.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]), its high frequency in the relatively isolated populations of the Bergamo and Borbera Valleys could represent the outcome of ancient gene flow from that area, possibly magnified by genetic drift. On the other hand, R1b-M412*, so far described only in Turkey, Iran, Cyprus and Crete (Myres et al., 2011 Myres NM, Rootsi S, Lin AA, Järve M, King RJ, Kutuev I, Cabrera VM, et al. 2011. A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19:95–101.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]; Voskarides et al., 2016 Voskarides K, Mazières S, Hadjipanagi D, Di Cristofaro J, Ignatiou A, Stefanou C, King RJ, et al. 2016. Y-chromosome phylogeographic analysis of the Greek-Cypriot population reveals elements consistent with Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements. Investig Genet 7:1.[Crossref], [PubMed], , [Google Scholar]), is observed in all the four Southern Italian samples, all from the ancient Magna Graecia area, but only sporadically in population groups from Northern Italy. The R1b-M412* Y chromosomes could, therefore, represent the legacy of an Eastern Mediterranean input associated with the early Hellenic colonisation, and/or the more recent Byzantine domination. This scenario is supported by the high frequency of R1b-M412* in the Griko-speaking community of Grecìa Salentina (13.4%), where haplogroup R1b-M412* probably reflects ancient colonisation events from Greek-speaking islands rather than continental Greece
.
A point of view
Y-R1b-M472 = Y-R1b-L51 if I don?t mistake.
Come in Italy from Greece ? Possible. But with Mycenians or well defined Greeks ? I doubt. It?s presence would be very older in Italy, and come as well from South as from North.
Its level presence in Italy as opposed to the gradiant North-South of grand?grand? daughter Y-R1b-U152 is uneasy to analyse. It could be as well the result of ? at some stage ? a denser pop of M472 in North than in South and its capacity there to give birth to downstream SNP?s. Very often I read people thinking that every SNP level marks a different pop, as if children were not of the same family as their parents ! Yes, there are and there has been founder effects changing drastically the proportions of diverse up- and down-stream SNP?s. So giving the impression of different pops sometimes, but the downstream SNP?s are born by upstream SNP?s (do I say again! LOL). Genetics is dynamics.
A conservative pop concerning SNP (old, upstream) is not by force living in the cradle, or at least not by force the precise geographic source of a diaspora, I said that already. Of course, this ? conservative ? pop and its place of life is not more by force too far of the called cradle.
Concerning Iberia, and S116/P312, the domination of Iberia is rather tiny, and by the way it?s downstream to M412/L51, so not sure to mark a ? cradle ?. In Italy it?s rather level, according to someones, but not always, and here again, some strongholds are in Northern Italy in isolated highlands places ; one can say it?s the proof of a layer of more ancient pop. Maybe, not proved !
Here again, same reasoning of mine : these less peopled areas are by force the one where the new downstream SNPs had less chances to be born. Paradoxe: a far place rich in upstreams and poor in downstream is seen as the "parent" of places rich in downstream and poor in upstream, and a same kind of place BUT close is seen as excluded from the possible "parent"... we need clear gradual trail.
I have no cristal bowl, so I affirm nothing, but I take some caution with some mainstream deductions concerning places of birth of SNP. What works well with very distinct lineages can mistake us with close lineages.
Maybe I am wrong all the way. My brain is tired, my 70?s are approaching dangerously. Don?t send me flowers. A bottle of whisky perhpas ?...