New conference on Bronze Age mobility in Europe

Pan troglodytes have at least as much genetic diversity as homo sapiens.

I honestly need to ask you: what do you exactly mean in this context? I just hope it's not what I am thinking...
 
The point was even if Winters claims on genetic diversity were so then it wouldn't lead to some superiority or whatever you call it.
 
The point was even if Winters claims on genetic diversity were so then it wouldn't lead to some superiority or whatever you call it.

No i think the point was " R1 came from Africa, therefore, Europeans are mostly R1, so ,most Europeans are whitened Africans, therefore, real Africans are superior than Europeans " Something on those lines.
 
Good news, parts of the event will be filmed, and posted to Youtube. Here is an e-mail response I received from the person in-charge of coordinating the event:

PlMzQWF.png


This is the official Youtube page of OREA:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrZVIXeRf_7Dg70rcW5bMw
 
I don't think anyone here doubts that the Carthaginians conquered Sardinia, I only doubt that they left much of a genetic impact because that's what the genetic evidence suggests.



That's Pausanias referring to the mythical past of Sardinia. He said that the North of the Tyrsus river lived the Libyans and the natives, and South of the Tyrsus lived the Trojans and Greeks, and that they avoided fighting because they were equal in number, of course this can't be taken as a historical account.

I don't think he says what you write exactly.

Basically in his text there is something that could explain low Punic admixture, the fact Carthaginians used 'Iberian' and 'Libyan' mercenaries, according to that account.

Concerning these 'Libyans' there's also the possibility of a copying mistake or confusion based on the similarities between Libues vs Ligues, Libici etc.

The linguistic affiliation of Ligurians is uncertain either way, so it would be worth considering if the Ligues, Ligures, Libici and whatnot of Europe have anything in common with North African Libues apart from the similar sounding names. I am not talking necessarily about a movement from N Africa. Even if an account is wrong there should be something that leads to that mistake.

If I was writing a scientific study I would have been very cautious but now that I'm not doing that, I'm considering the texts reflect real movements from 1) NW Anatolia, 2) Spain and either 3) Liguria or N. Africa
 
points
Northern Italy (Bergamo Valleys and plain, Tortona-Voghera and Borbera Valley) is characterised by an extremely high incidence of the R1b
haplogroup (69.0%) when compared to all the other main haplogroups whose frequencies do not reach 10%. This haplogroup, which characterises a wide portion of the gene pool of the examined populations, shows a decreasing frequency pattern from North to South Italy, where it shows its lowest incidence (27.5%). This pattern is virtually totally ascribable to R1b-U152, the most represented R1b sub-lineage, whereas no frequency gradients were detected for the other sub-lineages. R1b-S116*(xU152, M529) is equally represented in all the Italian populations (Figure 3, dusty rose sector in secondary pies). This shows the highest frequencies in two isolated areas of Northern Italy: Borbera Valley (12.9%) and Bergamo Valleys (17.9%). The frequency peak is particularly noticeable in Bergamo Valleys in comparison to the neighbouring plain area (17.9% vs 3.8%, respectively, p < .01).
[...]
Thus, taking into account that the highest reported incidence of R1b-S116*(xU152, M529) is in Iberia (Adams et al., 2008 Adams SM, Bosch E, Balaresque PL, Ballereau SJ, Lee AC, Arroyo E, López-Parra AM, et al. 2008. The genetic legacy of religious diversity and intolerance: paternal lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula. Am J Hum Genet 83:725–736.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]; Myres et al., 2011 Myres NM, Rootsi S, Lin AA, Järve M, King RJ, Kutuev I, Cabrera VM, et al. 2011. A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19:95–101.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]), its high frequency
in the relatively isolated populations of the Bergamo and Borbera Valleys could represent the outcome of ancient gene flow from that area, possibly magnified by genetic drift. On the other hand, R1b-M412*, so far described only in Turkey, Iran, Cyprus and Crete (Myres et al., 2011 Myres NM, Rootsi S, Lin AA, Järve M, King RJ, Kutuev I, Cabrera VM, et al. 2011. A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19:95–101.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]; Voskarides et al., 2016 Voskarides K, Mazières S, Hadjipanagi D, Di Cristofaro J, Ignatiou A, Stefanou C, King RJ, et al. 2016. Y-chromosome phylogeographic analysis of the Greek-Cypriot population reveals elements consistent with Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements. Investig Genet 7:1.[Crossref], [PubMed], , [Google Scholar]), is observed in all the four Southern Italian samples, all from the ancient Magna Graecia area, but only sporadically in population groups from Northern Italy. The R1b-M412* Y chromosomes could, therefore, represent the legacy of an Eastern Mediterranean input associated with the early Hellenic colonisation, and/or the more recent Byzantine domination. This scenario is supported by the high frequency of R1b-M412* in the Griko-speaking community of Grecìa Salentina (13.4%), where haplogroup R1b-M412* probably reflects ancient colonisation events from Greek-speaking islands rather than continental Greece

.
A point of view
Y-R1b-M472 = Y-R1b-L51 if I don?t mistake.
Come in Italy from Greece ? Possible. But with Mycenians or well defined Greeks ? I doubt. It?s presence would be very older in Italy, and come as well from South as from North.
Its level presence in Italy as opposed to the gradiant North-South of grand?grand? daughter Y-R1b-U152 is uneasy to analyse. It could be as well the result of ? at some stage ? a denser pop of M472 in North than in South and its capacity there to give birth to downstream SNP?s. Very often I read people thinking that every SNP level marks a different pop, as if children were not of the same family as their parents ! Yes, there are and there has been founder effects changing drastically the proportions of diverse up- and down-stream SNP?s. So giving the impression of different pops sometimes, but the downstream SNP?s are born by upstream SNP?s (do I say again! LOL). Genetics is dynamics.
A conservative pop concerning SNP (old, upstream) is not by force living in the cradle, or at least not by force the precise geographic source of a diaspora, I said that already. Of course, this ? conservative ? pop and its place of life is not more by force too far of the called cradle.
Concerning Iberia, and S116/P312, the domination of Iberia is rather tiny, and by the way it?s downstream to M412/L51, so not sure to mark a ? cradle ?. In Italy it?s rather level, according to someones, but not always, and here again, some strongholds are in Northern Italy in isolated highlands places ; one can say it?s the proof of a layer of more ancient pop. Maybe, not proved !

Here again, same reasoning of mine : these less peopled areas are by force the one where the new downstream SNPs had less chances to be born. Paradoxe: a far place rich in upstreams and poor in downstream is seen as the "parent" of places rich in downstream and poor in upstream, and a same kind of place BUT close is seen as excluded from the possible "parent"... we need clear gradual trail.
I have no cristal bowl, so I affirm nothing, but I take some caution with some mainstream deductions concerning places of birth of SNP. What works well with very distinct lineages can mistake us with close lineages.

Maybe I am wrong all the way. My brain is tired, my 70?s are approaching dangerously. Don?t send me flowers. A bottle of whisky perhpas ?...
 
Mobility of people in Northern Italy Bronze Age communities investigated through isotope analyses


Here's the lecture on Bronze-Age Northern Italy.

"Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations" with Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich has not been published. Though it still might be, considering OREA just uploaded a new one today. Most of these were posted on the 14th.
 
Mobility of people in Northern Italy Bronze Age communities investigated through isotope analyses


Here's the lecture on Bronze-Age Northern Italy.

"Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations" with Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich has not been published. Though it still might be, considering OREA just uploaded a new one today. Most of these were posted on the 14th.
Fantastic

Sent from my SM-G935V using Eupedia Forum mobile app
 
Mobility of people in Northern Italy Bronze Age communities investigated through isotope analyses


Here's the lecture on Bronze-Age Northern Italy.

"Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations" with Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich has not been published.

The text in bold comes from another study.
 
No surprises, but a good review for those unfamiliar with the Terramare Culture.

Without ancient dna we can't be sure, but the archaeological track from the Danubian plain into Terramare in the Po Plain and Emilia, and then beyond into Central and Southern Italy after its collapse is mirrored by very high genetic correlation between Italians and Bronze Age Hungary.

Anyone have a genetic breakdown of Bronze Age Hungary handy?

The tie with the Sea Peoples is again not knew. As some of us have been saying forever, the gene flow went both ways across the Adriatic. Interesting too that she shows a map pointing toward the Peloponnese, the area of mainland Greece with the highest genetic similarity to Italy, and Crete, where there is also a lot of similarity. That's of course in addition to all the shared Neolithic ancestry.

I wildly speculated years ago, way back when I was active on the 23andme forums, that perhaps some of the people who attacked and then mixed with the inhabitants of the coastal Levant were from Italy and that this might help to account for some of the more "western Mediterranean" admixture in Jews. As I said, complete speculation. We need ancient dna besides the swords and other artifacts.
 
Basically she's confirming that Terramare are an Alpine (Polada) and Danubian mix if i'm not wrong

Utilizzando Tapatalk
 
Towards a new osteometric method for sexing ancient cremated human remains. Analysis of Late Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Italy with gendered grave goods


  • Claudio Cavazzuti ,
  • Benedetta Bresadola,
  • Chiara d’Innocenzo,
  • Stella Interlando,
  • Alessandra Sperduti


PwpKTlv.jpg



Abstract

Sex estimation of human remains is one of the most important research steps for physical anthropologists and archaeologists dealing with funerary contexts and trying to reconstruct the demographic structure of ancient societies. However, it is well known that in the case of cremations sex assessment might be complicated by the destructive/transformative effect of the fire on bones. Osteometric standards built on unburned human remains and contemporary cremated series are often inadequate for the analysis of ancient cremations, and frequently result in a significant number of misclassifications. This work is an attempt to overcome the scarcity of methods that could be applied to pre-proto-historic Italy and serve as methodological comparison for other European contexts. A set of 24 anatomical traits were measured on 124 Bronze Age and Iron Age cremated individuals with clearly engendered grave goods. Assuming gender largely correlated to sex, male and female distributions of each individual trait measured were compared to evaluate sexual dimorphism through inferential statistics and Chaktaborty and Majumder’s index. The discriminatory power of each variable was evaluated by cross-validation tests. Eight variables yielded an accuracy equal to or greater than 80%. Four of these variables also show a similar degree of precision for both sexes. The most diagnostic measurements are from radius, patella, mandible, talus, femur, first metatarsal, lunate and humerus. Overall, the degree of sexual dimorphism and the reliability of estimates obtained from our series are similar to those of a modern cremated sample recorded by Gonçalves and collaborators. Nevertheless, mean values of the male and female distributions in our case study are lower, and the application of the cut-off point calculated from the modern sample to our ancient individuals produces a considerable number of misclassifications. This result confirms the need to build population-specific methods for sexing the cremated remains of ancient individuals.
 
Towards a new osteometric method for sexing ancient cremated human remains. Analysis of Late Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Italy with gendered grave goods


  • Claudio Cavazzuti ,
  • Benedetta Bresadola,
  • Chiara d’Innocenzo,
  • Stella Interlando,
  • Alessandra Sperduti


PwpKTlv.jpg



Abstract

Sex estimation of human remains is one of the most important research steps for physical anthropologists and archaeologists dealing with funerary contexts and trying to reconstruct the demographic structure of ancient societies. However, it is well known that in the case of cremations sex assessment might be complicated by the destructive/transformative effect of the fire on bones. Osteometric standards built on unburned human remains and contemporary cremated series are often inadequate for the analysis of ancient cremations, and frequently result in a significant number of misclassifications. This work is an attempt to overcome the scarcity of methods that could be applied to pre-proto-historic Italy and serve as methodological comparison for other European contexts. A set of 24 anatomical traits were measured on 124 Bronze Age and Iron Age cremated individuals with clearly engendered grave goods. Assuming gender largely correlated to sex, male and female distributions of each individual trait measured were compared to evaluate sexual dimorphism through inferential statistics and Chaktaborty and Majumder’s index. The discriminatory power of each variable was evaluated by cross-validation tests. Eight variables yielded an accuracy equal to or greater than 80%. Four of these variables also show a similar degree of precision for both sexes. The most diagnostic measurements are from radius, patella, mandible, talus, femur, first metatarsal, lunate and humerus. Overall, the degree of sexual dimorphism and the reliability of estimates obtained from our series are similar to those of a modern cremated sample recorded by Gonçalves and collaborators. Nevertheless, mean values of the male and female distributions in our case study are lower, and the application of the cut-off point calculated from the modern sample to our ancient individuals produces a considerable number of misclassifications. This result confirms the need to build population-specific methods for sexing the cremated remains of ancient individuals.

Pax,
The study keeps referring Goncalves (David) and Pires (Ana)... at the time (2016) I had just finished writing my shulaveri-Shomu hypothesis, but on Fridays my daughter was on Chemotherapy and I used to sit at a chair (Kids do chemo with parents sited next) and there was a 3 year old kid every Friday that seated in front of my daughter, Luca, and he just adored my daughter. One day the parents asked us for a coffee on a Sunday. To cut short imagine me being immersed in Shulaveri Shomu, archaeogenetic, Adna…. And when I asked what they did for a living they were very embarrassed to explain not knowing how. Ana Elizabete talked for a minute. I smiled and said really? I am particularly interested in the Chalcolithic ancient dna, Y-dna, Mtdna, autosomal, bla bla bla….they couldn’t believe I knew about the subject matte they investigated for a living and what were the odds two Portuguese meeting in that way, and both even knowing about that matter.
I have their phone number…. But I don’t know what happened to Luca (it was really, really bad) and today still never find the courage to call or ask.
What a gentle soul Luca is…
 

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