Revised reconstruction of Bronze Age Scottish woman based on analyzed snps

Dark features? Well, I'm not sure where you and ToBeOrNotToBe came from and what people you've mt, but she's basically as dark as Catherina Zeta Jones and Pierce Brosnan, she wouldn't come off as non-European to me in any way. There are plenty of Southern and even Northern Europeans with skin complexion and, of course, dark hair and eyes. I think you guys are overstating the "darkness" of that reconstruction a lot.

Also, I don't think you should equate all EEF with the Northern European GAC and Funnelbeaker. From the example of modern Barbagia Sardinians, the closest to EEF, and many other ancient DNA samples we can be pretty sure that many if not even most EEF were dark-haired, dark-eyed and not that pale-skinned.

But, i dont equal all EEF ancestry as GAC and Funnelbeaker, they are stated that she is a second generation migrant coming from Northern Europe, wich at this point can only be Bell Beaker or Corded Ware. Wich if we assume her grand parents came from Netherlands, her EEF ancestry must have been from GAC or Funnelbeaker ( maybe a local resurgence of LBK ). As for Dark Features, i'm obviously. talking about it in an European way ( i have dark features myself ), not like " Africa ".
 
I explained that she had no British Neolithic EEF. Of course, as a central European Bell Beaker she would have been about 50% EEF. (Post number 8)

@Half Alp,
The majority of European farmers were dark-haired and dark-eyed, with a few picking up the blue eyes from WHG. They just had European fair skin. Those predictions for Globular Amphora, coming from genetiker, and making predictions based on single snps (which is completely wrong) are highly suspect. Plus, who says all the "farmer" ancestry in Beakers came from Globular Amphora?

There is, in addition, actual phenotypic data from the English Beaker samples. The blonde and blue-eyed beakers were in the minority, and they had more than a few dark-haired, dark-eyed ones. Go check the paper. It will clear up your confusion.

As to red hair, I was completely correct. A recent paper shows that the one snp used to supposedly "predict" red hair is not sufficient to predict it. So throw out all those genetiker predictions. Again, people, especially TBONTB, READ THE PAPERS. Algorithms can indeed predict dark hair and dark eyes. The majority of the Beakers had dark hair and dark eyes to the best of my recollection.

As Moesan has pointed out again and again, the point of the nose has to be guessed at because nothing remains. However, flat noses are by no means uncommon among the British. It's one of their unattractive traits. Even someone otherwise as beautiful as Catherine Zeta Jones has it.

Before plastic surgery:
2807311165_3b458c7e44.jpg


young-catherine-zeta-jones-as-a-teenager-photo-u1

As for Genetiker calls, i take them with some salts, but it seems most of Barcin and Neolithic Balkans test that would have Blonde Hairs were from mtdna N1a1a, wich makes me think to a founder effect with the same origin as the European Blonde hairs but away from the same source ( Iron_Gates HG's were all dark, not even Blue Eyes ). So i like to keep them in mind to brainstorm things.
 
She looks something modern Russian / Romanian, roughly Baltic without the depigmentation. Do we know the cultural phase she belong to? The Mesolithic Scandinavian and British Modern and Neolithic have I2a1b in common and almost all British Neolithic sample are I2a1 or I2a2. And she clearly look like the stereotypical Bell Beaker, so how would she come from North Europe? I hope they put the sample datas public to be analyzed by other people.



Edit: Interesting enough, she was a Bell Beaker woman from Caithness dated 2300-2140 cal BCE. Mtdna H5. So are Beaker folk from Northern Europe now? Interesting. Also sadly she is not into the Genetiker pigmentation predictions. Hope it will soon.

Interesting also, it's the Reich Lab who was in charge.

NO, this look IS NOT BBlike at all! (too flat nose, too vertical forehead, too low skull etc...) BUT is it her true look???
 
as a whole, British people have not flat noses. What occurs sometimes are A: noses with kind of a depression under glabella, but a bit under it, the line of the nose takes off a bit. B: among HG's of any sort, the depression existed, but with a rather agressive line just under. That kind of pseudo "flat" noses (A), less rare among British Celts, the most among Irish people, evocates in some way something 'lappish' or 'finnish', "eats-baltic" fr someones; it occurs also among some Scandinavians. Maybe it justifies the 'turanid' pronostic by people like J. Beddoe. All the way, it was not the BB nose, but surely implies some input from North-East not-Russian Europe: when? Vikings period? Before?
to come back to the topic, I cannot devine the complete nasal line of this wife so...
 
NO, this look IS NOT BBlike at all! (too flat nose, too vertical forehead, too low skull etc...) BUT is it her true look???

If she's not, why would i have the intuition she is before even knows her origin?
 
Well, some things we know because we have the snps. She had black hair, brown eyes, and a medium complexion, and so did a lot of the other Beakers who went to England.

As for the cranial and facial bones, here is the skull. Whether or not it fits our preconceptions about what Beakers looked like, she's a Beaker girl, and this is her skull.

psDRPzZ.png
 
Well, some things we know because we have the snps. She had black hair, brown eyes, and a medium complexion, and so did a lot of the other Beakers who went to England.

As for the cranial and facial bones, here is the skull. Whether or not it fits our preconceptions about what Beakers looked like, she's a Beaker girl, and this is her skull.

psDRPzZ.png

She clearly look not with what we would imagine about Farmers skulls ( Mediterranean ). She has that weird Brachycephale but very robust cranium. I guess what MOESAN consider a typical BB cranium, would be something like modern Dinarid people very narrow and with a flat occiput, but she clearly doesn't look like your typical Farmer. If we believe by some, that Brachycephally happened because of Farming, well... If we believe it's an ethnic founder effect that propagated from a source by migrations ( juste like me ), i bet she is representative by a physical type that expand in western europe by the balkans. From Steppe or Anatolia? No idea, but we should reborn physical anthropolgy, i recognize that we ain't gonna learn anything about ourself with, but it still can be pertinent to see mixing with different populations, or just a migration pattern. For me, she clearly look like something modern Baltic and Steppic. Something Uralic, like a Siberian face ( the flat nose, the wide face ) but like a Romanian girl.
 
View attachment 10586

I have been working on it for several hours with the premise of what would it really be like if it were in front of it? without looking for any result and letting me carry and working she has revealed herself. It does not pretend to be science, it is my technique and nothing else.

Observing her, it is possible that she had a slight strabismus in the right eye, a detail for those who might be interested, I think that according to my technique I was cross-eyed.
 
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I don't think there needs to be any more incredulity at the fact that British people can naturally be black haired and brown eyed: no need for "foreign" ancestry

This has always confused me. I know that on other anthropology and genetics forums, people seem to believe that Britons are all crypto-Jews. I'm also tickled by those who think the Anglo-Saxons who migrated to Britain were all blond Swedish-types, without so much as a single brown-haired chap amongst them.

The combination of dark brown or black hair, olive skin and brown eyes is very much uncommon here, though brown-eyed blondes and certainly blue-eyed brunettes are more plentiful. The original reconstruction looked typically-British, whereas the new one is more striking. You don't see so many of those around England or Scotland. It's not the skull shape, facial features or colouration, but the combination thereof. I suppose Catherine Zeta-Jones is comparable, or this actress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHFovnoHNQ

ThE Yamnaya Culture was related to the ancestors of modern Native Americans

Didn't it emerge 10,000 years after the settlement of the Americas...?

as a whole, British people have not flat noses

I agree with this, it's quite rare to see a flat nose. You probably find more in the Irish
 
This has always confused me. I know that on other anthropology and genetics forums, people seem to believe that Britons are all crypto-Jews. I'm also tickled by those who think the Anglo-Saxons who migrated to Britain were all blond Swedish-types, without so much as a single brown-haired chap amongst them.

The combination of dark brown or black hair, olive skin and brown eyes is very much uncommon here, though brown-eyed blondes and certainly blue-eyed brunettes are more plentiful. The original reconstruction looked typically-British, whereas the new one is more striking. You don't see so many of those around England or Scotland. It's not the skull shape, facial features or colouration, but the combination thereof. I suppose Catherine Zeta-Jones is comparable, or this actress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHFovnoHNQ



Didn't it emerge 10,000 years after the settlement of the Americas...?



I agree with this, it's quite rare to see a flat nose. You probably find more in the Irish

What about Wales or Ireland? Those places probably received the least post Bronze Age admixture. Anecdotally, I'd met an Irish woman in Italy who had very similar eye and hair pigmentation, and she didn't have the typically North-West European skin either, so she would tan to a quite brownish tone.

As regards comparisons with modern populations, one thing that has to be kept in mind with these reconstructions is that in the metal ages and beyond people tended to have more pronounced jaws, and a somewhat heavier facial bone structure in general. There are other features like the slight suppression on top of the skull, the extremely low height of the cranium etc. that have more or less disappeared from European populations.
 
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Alcuin;562589]This has always confused me. I know that on other anthropology and genetics forums, people seem to believe that Britons are all crypto-Jews. I'm also tickled by those who think the Anglo-Saxons who migrated to Britain were all blond Swedish-types, without so much as a single brown-haired chap amongst them.

Anyone who believes either of those things has never set foot in either country, and is an idiot. Why read the drivel they write? You may as well subscribe to a periodical about alien abductions.

The combination of dark brown or black hair, olive skin and brown eyes is very much uncommon here, though brown-eyed blondes and certainly blue-eyed brunettes are more plentiful. The original reconstruction looked typically-British, whereas the new one is more striking. You don't see so many of those around England or Scotland. It's not the skull shape, facial features or colouration, but the combination thereof. I suppose Catherine Zeta-Jones is comparable, or this actress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHFovnoHNQ

If you remove the olive skin, then I disagree. Dark brown haired and brown eyed and light skinned people are not the norm, but neither are they all that rare. Look at post number 39, and that was just actors and actresses. I could do longer posts from sport, media, law, business etc.

The original reconstruction looked like a girl from the Baltics.
 
Anyone who believes either of those things has never set foot in either country, and is an idiot. Why read the drivel they write? You may as well subscribe to a periodical about alien abductions.



If you remove the olive skin, then I disagree. Dark brown haired and brown eyed and light skinned people are not the norm, but neither are they all that rare. Look at post number 39, and that was just actors and actresses. I could do longer posts from sport, media, law, business etc.

The original reconstruction looked like a girl from the Baltics.

Not an actress but a singer: Andrea Corrs of the Irish singing group. As I said, from what I can see it shows up more in Ireland, Scotland and Wales than in England per se, areas where there would be more "Beaker" ancestry, and less from subsequent invasions.

PA-4763599-310x415.jpg
 
Angela if the reconstruction looked like those photos you're publishing then fine, but it doesn't. Take it from someone who's lived in Britain all his life - NOBODY would think that reconstruction was native. Most people would just naïvely guess Spanish or Italian, but can't you see her pigmentation is way too dark, I mean it is about the same as Xavi who is dark-ish even by Spanish standards...
 
Angela if the reconstruction looked like those photos you're publishing then fine, but it doesn't. Take it from someone who's lived in Britain all his life - NOBODY would think that reconstruction was native. Most people would just naïvely guess Spanish or Italian, but can't you see her pigmentation is way too dark, I mean it is about the same as Xavi who is dark-ish even by Spanish standards...
She isn't too dark by Neolithic standards by a long shot.
 
View attachment 10605

As I said I had strabismus in the right eye. In this new edition with skin I think I could have pigmentary incotinence.
 
She isn't too dark by Neolithic standards by a long shot.

She’s a Steppe Bell Beaker, she isn’t part of the preceding Neolithic population ffs. I swear, how is this not so obvious to people, this is a stupidity even smart people are not immune to (and I’m definitely not calling you smart, though people like Angela clearly are at the very least somewhat).

And to the person saying that she’s dark because she has pigmentary incontinence, surely, just surely, you aren’t that stupid to think something as elaborate as that.
 
^ `` `

Sí, gracias, muy amable de clasificarme como una persona que me siento halagada. No es lo que pienso, es un resultado que obtuve con mi técnica que no puedo explicar porque es inexplicable. Así que mantengo mis criterios, esa mujer estaba enferma, tenía estrabismo en el ojo derecho y es muy posible que tuviera la enfermedad de incontinencia pigmentaria con los problemas que surgen. Y me atrevo a ir más allá en el sentido de que estos problemas serían la causa de su entierro único, ya que es muy probable que haya tenido hijos que hubieran muerto sobreviviendo a sus hijas, de modo que para su familia hubiera certificado un hecho tangible. muestra de la relevancia de la mujer en relación con la feminidad de Dios, una prueba viviente de que su Dios era una mujer, por lo tanto, la enterraron como lo hicieron. Si tiene una propuesta mejor, expóngala.
 
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[QUOTE = halfalp; 562676] Reconstrucción perfecta de un Elfo de madera. [/ QUOTE]

Merci beaucoup
 
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