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Thread: German Regional Y-DNA Distribution

  1. #1
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    4 members found this post helpful.

    German Regional Y-DNA Distribution

    Based on FTDNA Germany Project:

    Sample size is 2400 for all regions (including 255 with ancestry from former eastern Germany: not sure if this includes only self-identified ethnic Germans or also other groups in those provinces of Germany like Poles, Kashubians, Lithuanians, Jews, Sorbs, etc.):





    Centre: Mecklenburg, Vorpommern, West Brandenburg, Province Saxony, Kingdom Saxony, Thuringian States:



    East: Pommern, East Prussia, West Prussia, Silesia, East Brandenburg Posen [sample size 255]:



    At first glance it can be estimated:

    NW - 55% Germanic, 13% Italo-Celtic, 10% Balto-Slavic, 22% other
    South - 39% Germanic, 25% Italo-Celtic, 11% Balto-Slavic, 25% other
    Centre - 39% Germanic, 24% Balto-Slavic, 16% Italo-Celtic, 21% other
    East - 44% Balto-Slavic, 30% Germanic, 12% Italo-Celtic, 15% other

    ^^^ If we assume, that:

    Balto-Slavic: R1a-Z280, R1a-M458, N, I2a
    Germanic: R1b-U106, I1, R1a-Z284, I2b
    Italo-Celtic: U152, DF27, L21, P312

    Other: E, G, J, I2c, T, L, C, Q, R1b-L23, R1a-Z93

    Many of the 255 samples from eastern regions are undoubtedly from East Prussia.

    Some time ago I collected data about 84 Y-DNA samples with ancestry tracing back to East Prussia from various FTDNA Projects, and there were 19 haplogroup N samples among them (23%) and a lot of R1a as well - but most of East Prussian R1a was Z280, just like in Lithuania.

    In my East Prussian sample only 18% of R1a was M458 and 82% was Z280 and other.

  2. #2
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    I find the ratio of R1a M458 to Z280 in South Germany to be a bit strange. In the west Slavic countries there is a northeast to southwest gradient of M458 to Z280, with more M458 appearing as you go south and west (Czech R1a is predominantly M458), and mine comes from Franconian Wurttemberg, not far from the historic Bavaria Slavica. Perhaps a lot of old East Prussians went to Bavaria?

  3. #3
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    What subclades of Z280 are common among ethnic Germans ?

  4. #4
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joey37 View Post
    I find the ratio of R1a M458 to Z280 in South Germany to be a bit strange. In the west Slavic countries there is a northeast to southwest gradient of M458 to Z280, with more M458 appearing as you go south and west (Czech R1a is predominantly M458), and mine comes from Franconian Wurttemberg, not far from the historic Bavaria Slavica. Perhaps a lot of old East Prussians went to Bavaria?
    Perhaps Austrian influence in Bavaria et cetera. Austrian R1a is mostly Z280 iirc and comes from assimilated Slovenians

  5. #5
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxCRO View Post
    Perhaps Austrian influence in Bavaria et cetera. Austrian R1a is mostly Z280 iirc and comes from assimilated Slovenians
    It is worth noting:

    In the region of northern Steiermark, Austria, (between Judenburg and Leoben) there is a place called Kraubat. The name appears many times in various charters of the 11th and 12th centuries, and is written as Chrowat (= Croat).

    In the region of Kärnten (old Karantia in the south of Austria) there is a place called Kraut, also derived from the Middle Age name Chrowat, mentioned in many charters of the 11th and 12th centuries.

    In Kärnten (Karantia) there existed a Croatian parish already in the 10th century. Old manuscripts call it pagus Crouuati, which is obviously derived from the Croatian name (= Croatian parish). The name appears even in Royal charters. According to investigations of Felicetti this parish of `pagus Crouuati' spread precisely along the Gosposvetsko polje, where the earliest Slavic Dukes of Karantia had a seat. It included also the region of today's Klagenfurt (Celovec), capital of Karantia, together with the famous Church of Gospa Sveta (Maria Saal, Maria in Solio, Maria ad Karanten), probably the oldest Christian church in the region.
    http://croatianhistory.net/etf/austria.html

    Carantania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania
    Neopisivo

  6. #6
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    I would propose to look at the historical trade routes as gene spread source.
    7.4% of N in E.Germany comparing to 1% average in Germany could be result of the Amber trade route via Elbe/Labe and land route via Breslau.
    It's interesting Bavarian dialect still preserved leitzleute historic term for people providing security travel service.
    Riurikid and Gedimind dynasty members provided travel services, later were attested as konig der leitten.
    To the same R1a Z280 belongs also magnates Radziwillo controlled wast lands and trade routes hubs. They also were dukes of Holly Roman Empire connected by marriages with Bavaria, Brandenburg, Pfalc-Noiburg dukes.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ian_routes.png
    Last edited by Norvila; 25-12-18 at 13:03. Reason: add

  7. #7
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    A Genome-Wide Analysis of Populations from European Russia Reveals a New Pole of Genetic Diversity in Northern Europe
    "...we report an analysis of approximately 166,000 single nucleotide polymorphisms in populations from eastern (northeastern) Europe: four Russian populations from European Russia, and three populations from the northernmost Finno-Ugric ethnicities (Veps and two contrast groups of Komi people). These were compared with several reference European samples, including Finns, Estonians, Latvians, Poles, Czechs, Germans, and Italians. The results obtained demonstrated genetic heterogeneity of populations living in the region studied. Russians from the central part of European Russia (Tver, Murom, and Kursk) exhibited similarities with populations from central–eastern Europe, and were distant from Russian sample from the northern Russia (Mezen district, Archangelsk region)." https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0058552

  8. #8
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    Prof. G. Dunkel states N DNA in Central Europe originated in Lithuania.
    http://www.kolumbus.fi/geodun/YDNA/A...s-ver.3.0..pdf
    Attachment 10599
    https://phylogeographer.com/mygrations/ computed results indicates connections between DNA in Finland and Silk road locations. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups.../activity-feedAttachment 10600
    Attachment 10601
    some of them matches with Litv- placenames on the Silk road Attachment 10602

  9. #9
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    To enable, do you think you can get subclade info for I1 distribution for the same areas of Germany as you have posted here?

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