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You need to make difference between Race and Socio-Cultural. It's not per hasard than Dresden is the bastion of Far-Right Germans, it's because it's also one of the poorest place in germany with high unemployement.
People who work 8-9 hours per day are just discusted by migrants walking, drinking alcohol on the street, doing nothing. And dont tell me those guys would accept a job as a blue collar at any coast, they would not. Islam is another story because it's tied to the Fear of it.
Racism isn't a real thing, people are naturally careful with new things, but in general after a few sign of hospitality they are open-minded.
When shit start to get real with Far-Right grinding all the places everywhere, it's because there is a clear social problem, we are not talking about Black and White Americans here. We are talking about people with different languages, different cultures, different religions, that are supposed to do how they want.
What is happening in Europe, is exactly what needs to happen because people dont do anything, and when they do, it's just with words of critics and threats.
There’s no “playing” involved here. I've been reading this crap about Italians and Greeks for over eleven years now. You going to pretend it didn't permeate theapricity, forum biodiversity, where Agamemnon was a moderator, as well as Skadi and sites that were even worse?
You're being completely dishonest, and convince no one who has been on these forums for a long time. It used to be very much in the open.
Now a lot of them have migrated to more "respectable" sites and pretend it's all objective scientific analysis.
I'm going to keep exposing it so that newcomers to the "hobby" aren't fooled by this b.s.
Nor are these people who they say they are: Sikeliot has gone from claiming to be half Sicilian/half Portuguese Islander, to half Sicilian/1/4 Portuguese Islander/1/4 Polish, to now all Sicilian. That's when he wasn't claiming to be a Portuguese woman or a Hispanic. What is wrong with some people? Are they brain dead to believe anything someone like this says?
Or how about a 100% Italian, who grew up singing "Fratelli d'Italia", putting HANNIBAL up as his avatar?Yeah, that's normal, right? It would be like a Greek putting Xerxes up as his avatar. Inconceivable.
Don't waste your time. You will convince no honest people that it's something we made up. Not unless they just haven't been around very long. That's why I have screen shots of horrible comments by these people. They freaking keep annoying me and I'll put them up.
even those who call me a 'sand-nigger' online due to my mixed background and pull to the East, although I have to admit it is very hard sometimes and they do manage to make my blood boil on occasions.
Do you freaking know how to stay on topic and pursue an argument logically?
We're not talking about European attitudes toward unchecked, un-documented mass migration of people without skills and from a non-Western culture coming into Europe.
We're talking about one group of Europeans believing another group of Europeans is inferior and should be "kicked out of Europe", to use his own phrase.
THAT IS RACISM. It exists; nobody made it up, like stupid cultural appropriation at Halloween.
And it's dangerous.
They're condemned out of their own mouths.
Dosas' political beliefs, his attitude toward migration, like mine, are irrelevant to the topic, although I will tell you I'm probably much more conservative than you are.
It's either real or it's not, and I have the screenshots which prove it's real. Why do you think they sent that guy who was a "star" at theapricity to jail? You think it was just because of the classifications they do and their comments about Italians"? They did a hell of a lot more than that, those people.
The only point upon which I would disagree with Dosas is as to whether it's recent or not. I believe this toxic ideology has been around since at least the 1800s in England, the U.S., Germany, Scandinavia, even France.
All you have to do is read a little history to know I'm right; start with Vienna in the early part of the 1900s, for example. It's no mystery where Hitler got his ideas; they were common currency in the cafes and beer joints he frequented. Read about the Dreyfus case. For God's sake, they're still ranting about Jews in Poland and Hungary when there are none left in their countries. It's like a disease. No wonder there are still hidden Jews there. Or, read the opinions of some of those "physical anthropologists" they claim to follow.
As to the Yamnaya, you clearly don't remember the stuff you read on eurogenes. Until the Sandra Wilde and Mathiesen papers came out, the perceived wisdom among all the amateur experts like Polako was that the Yamnaya would turn out to be blonde and blue eyed. Where do you think he got the whole "blonde cowboys of the steppe" thing? Then he turned it to Corded Ware. Unfortunately for him they trundled along behind their cow pulled wagons.
It extended to the Mycenaeans as well. Two weeks before the paper on them came out showing "maybe" 15-18% steppe and a dark southeastern European type phenotype, he was promising that they would be blonde/blue eyed R1a Corded Ware people.
See what happens when you draw conclusions from your agenda instead of the data? More than half the time you wind up looking like a fool.
If the leaks are correct, that whole crew was completely wrong about the Etruscans, and for the same reason.
Now, enough off topic. Get back to genetics.
I know this is not related to the topic of the thread, just want to make a couple of quick corrections.but look around you. in greece the party golden dawn whose colors are red, white, black and that uses the fascist salute got 7% of votes in european elections. and you are concerned about the rise of the "far-right" in central europe?
you surely didn't vote for them but open your eyes.
No L-M20? I'd expect some. At least in Treviso province it'd be between 5 and 10%, if I'm not mistaken, which is pretty curious.
I couldn't read the study, as always. Does it distinguish numbers for Veneto and Emilia? 23andMe informs abt. 12% of G-M201 for NE Italy (based on its database, I presume), similar to Ethnopedia's, so, given the average above, Emilia Romagna must have significantly less G in comparison, which I guess it's also in line with Ethnopedia's.
ED: torzio, we thought the same.
View attachment 11363
I cannot recall the L-m20 in treviso province....i do recall in the friulian alpsNo L-M20? I'd expect some. At least in Treviso province it'd be between 5 and 10%, if I'm not mistaken, which is pretty curious.
I couldn't read the study, as always. Does it distinguish numbers for Veneto and Emilia? 23andMe informs abt. 12% of G-M201 for NE Italy (based on its database, I presume), similar to Ethnopedia's, so, given the average above, Emilia Romagna must have significantly less G in comparison, which I guess it's also in line with Ethnopedia's.
ED: torzio, we thought the same.
View attachment 11363
@Angela @torzio
M20 is a SNP that represents haplogroup L-M20, yes, so that one M20 must be actually L-M20
But never mind. I just checked, and indeed the supposed high number of L-M20 in Treviso is based on Boattini's study. But those are relatively few samples tested, and perhaps from the city of Treviso only, so...
I'd expect more J2a as well, but most of Js are J2b after all.Yeah, percentages are going to switch dramatically when you go from a few samples to 166 of them.
Again, interesting how little J2a is present.
Has anyone taken a look at the J1 snps? I'm not an expert in this, but they don't seem to be the "Jewish" clades, do they? Nor the North African ones from what I can tell. One seems to how up in Great Britain of all places. I'll certainly yield to people who are more expert in this, however.
I'd expect more J2a as well, but most of Js are J2b after all.
As for J1s, I'm affraid they haven't tested that deep, so it's not possible to determine whether some J1 samples belong to the the "Jewish" clades etc.
Using the PDF you shared and ISOGG tree...
L1086... A00
L1085... A0-T
V148.... A0
V168.... A1
M31..... A1a
P108.... A1b
L419.... A1b1
V50..... A1b1a
M32..... A1b1b
V42..... E1b1b1b2b3b
M168.... CT
P257.... G
M174.... D
M91..... BT
P97..... BT
M42..... BT
M203.... DE
M213.... F
M45..... P1 or K2b2a
M181.... B
M216.... C
M9...... K
M215.... E1b1b
M35..... ********** not found **********
M78..... E1b1b1a1
M81..... E1b1b1b1a
M123.... E1b1b1b2a1
V6...... E1b1b1b2b3a
V6...... E1b1b1c
P72..... E1b1b1b2b1
M224.... E1b1b1a1a1a
M136.... E1b1b1b2a1a1a1a1c
V12..... E1b1b1a1a1
V22..... E1b1b1a1b2
V65..... E1b1b1a1a2
M34..... E1b1b1b2a1a
P15..... G2a
P16..... ********** not found **********
P18..... ********** not found **********
M286.... G2a2a1a1a1
U8...... G2a2b
U16..... G2a2b1a1a
U1...... G2a2b2a1a1a
U13..... G2a2b2a1a1a1
M377.... G2b1
M253.... I1
M21..... I (Notes)
M227.... I1a1a1a1a
P109.... I1a1b1a1
P259.... I (Notes)
M72..... I1a1a1a1a2a1
P215.... I2
P37.2... I2a1a
M359.... ********** not found **********
M26..... I2a1a1a
M161.... I (Notes)
M161.... I2a1a1a1a1a1a1e6a5
M223.... I2a1b1
M284.... I2a1b1a1a
M379.... I (Notes)
P78..... I2a1b1a2a1
P95..... I2a1b1a2b1a1a1a1
M267.... J1
M62..... J (Notes)
M365.... ********** not found **********
M390.... J (Notes)
P56..... J1a2a1a1a
P58..... J1a2a1a2
M367.... ********** not found **********
M369.... J (Notes)
M172.... J2
M410.... J2a
M47..... J2a1a1a2a2b
M67..... J2a1a1a2b2
M68..... J2a1a2b2a2a2
M137.... J2a1a4b1a1a
M158.... ********** not found **********
M289.... J (Notes)
M318.... J2a1a1b2a1b1b2b1
M319.... J2a1a1a2b1b
M339.... J2a1a3
M340.... J2a2a1a1a2b1
M419.... J2a1a1b1a1a1a1
P81..... J2a1a1a2a2a2
P279.... J2a2a1a1a2
M92..... J2a1a1a2b2a1a
M327.... J (Notes)
M166.... J2a1a1a2b2a2b1b2
M12..... J2b
M205.... J2b1
M241.... J2b2a
M99..... J (Notes)
M280.... J (Notes)
M321.... J (Notes)
P84..... ********** not found **********
M20..... L
M20..... L or K1a
M27..... L1a1
M317.... L1b
M357.... L1a2
M242.... Q
P36.2... ********** not found **********
MEH2.... ********** not found **********
M378.... Q2a1
SRY10831.2
R1a1
M17..... R1a1a
M56..... R (Notes)
M157.... ********** not found **********
M287.... G (Notes)
P98..... R (Notes)
PK5..... R (Notes)
M343.... R1b
P25..... ********** not found **********
M18..... R1b1b1
P297.... R1b1a1
M335.... R1b2a
M73..... R1b1a1a
M269.... R1b1a1b
P310.... R1b1a1b1a1
U106.... R1b1a1b1a1a1
P312.... R1b1a1b1a1a2
M37..... ********** not found **********
M65..... ********** not found **********
M153.... R1b1a1b1a1a2a1a1a1a1
SRY2627. R1b1a1b1a1a2a1b1a1
M222.... R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1
U152.... R1b1a1b1a1a2b
P66..... ********** not found **********
M160.... ********** not found **********
M70..... T1a
L208.... T1a1a
M320.... T (Notes)
P77..... T1a1a1b2b2b1a
Z18..... R1b1a1b1a1a1b
Z381.... R1b1a1b1a1a1c
L48..... R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b
U198.... R1b1a1b1a1a1c2a1
Z195.... R1b1a1b1a1a2a1
M529.... R1b1a1b1a1a2c1
L2...... R1b1a1b1a1a2b1
L20..... R1b1a1b1a1a2b1a1
M60..... B
M145.... DE
M145.... DE
M147.... K2e
M96..... E
M89..... F
M282.... H2
M69..... H1a
M522.... IJK
M258.... I
M304.... J
M526.... K2
P308.... S1a1a1
P79..... S1a2
P261.... K2c
P256.... M or K2b1b
M231.... N
M231.... N or K2a1a
M175.... O
M175.... Oor K2a1b
P202.... S1a1b
P326.... LT or K1
P326.... LT [K1]
M412.... R1b1a1b1a
L11..... R1b1a1b1a1a
M124.... R2a
M173.... R1
M207.... R
M281.... E1b1b2
M516.... R1a1
M479.... R2
V13..... E1b1b1a1b1a
Sure. I built the list via software. Those are the SNPs listed in the PDF you shared. You can check some of them either in ISOGG or in YFull.Are you sure, Regio? They picked up no "A" at all according to the list.
G-U8 is merely G-L30, i.e., too old (ancestral to G-U1 itself, G-L497, G-M406...). https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-L30/ So the G2a-U1 in the list is also G-U8, while G-U8 in there must mean G-U8 (xU1).Then maybe those are what they checked, not what they found? This is what they found:
If the ones checked don't appear on this list then they didn't find them, I guess.
The G2a-U8 is also interesting.
"G2a2b (L30, PF3267, S126, U8)[edit]
G-L30 (also G-PF3267, G-S126 or G-U8; G2a2b, previously G2a3) Men who belong to this group but are negative for all its subclades represent a small number today. This haplogroup was found in a Neolithic skeleton from around 5000 BC, in the cemetery of Derenburg Meerenstieg II, Germany, which forms part of the Linear Pottery culture, known in German as Linearbandkeramik (LBK),[10] but was not tested for G2a3 subclades."
I wonder if finer resolution is possible. They only checked these downstream:
U16..... G2a2b1a1a
U1...... G2a2b2a1a1a
U13..... G2a2b2a1a1a1
If this is how we're meant to interpret the chart, then they only checked these J1?
M267.... J1
M62..... J (Notes)
M365.... ********** not found **********
M390.... J (Notes)
P56..... J1a2a1a1a
P58..... J1a2a1a2
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