Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 9 of 25 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 225 of 602

Thread: Population structure in Italy using ancient and modern samples

  1. #201
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,822
    Points
    249,005
    Level
    100
    Points: 249,005, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    4 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Wow, this is exciting.

    Is this the same paper as the one that RYU reported on? In that one there were two "types" of Romans, yes? One was more "North Italian" like, and one was more "South Italian" like, but by the Imperial period it was definitely more "Southern Italian" like, with a further small change in the post Imperial period.

    These look definitely more "South Italian" like. So, this is perhaps a different paper?

    Any info on the dating of these samples or the context?

    Just assuming for the moment, which I probably shouldn't do, that these samples are all Imperial Era Romans and from a different paper, then I think it just reinforces some of the conclusions we tentatively reached from that prior information.

    The "original Romans", from the Republic, were definitely Italic speakers, and were probably more like Northern Italians. As time went on, more and more influence from "Greeks" infiltrated north from Southern Italy. That influence on Italy didn't begin in the first millennium B.C. with Magna Graecia. As I've been saying for ten years, and as recent papers are beginning to conclude, it started back in Mycenaean days.

    So, those "more North Italian" Romans of the Republic probably had some of it too, as do modern North Italians. I would guess they were the predictable mixture of Italian MN (also known as Sardinian like) with some steppe admixed migrants, although if Parma Beakers are an indication of the type of admixture we're talking about, they would have varied in the amount of steppe they carried. To that would perhaps have been added a bit of "Mycenaean", carrying a bit of Caucasus/Iran like admixture.

    After the incorporation of Magna Graecia in the last centuries of the first millennium BC that would only have increased.

    As for the Etruscans, we knew for a long time that their mtDna was like that of most of southern Germany/Northern Italy, i.e. predominantly MN like, so predominantly "farmer" like but with some absorbed U5, either from the WHG, or from the steppe people. I wouldn't presume to judge. Some ancient MtDna experts will have to figure that out.

    So, the question has always been, not only what were they like in terms of yDna, but what were they like autosomally. From these leaks, it seems they may have been like Parma Beakers, although which Parma Beaker I don't know. If it's a pretty steppe admixed one, I think we can probably finally put to bed any idea that there was a folk migration from Anatolia to central Italy in the first millennium B.C., an idea which so many have vociferously championed for so long, and which I have resisted for just as long. In the case of the Etruscans we have tons of archaeological evidence, and it just never supported that.

    One of the arguments for that very late migration directly from Anatolia has been the "elevated" Caucasus like/Iranian like ancestry in modern Tuscans. What an irony if that came by way of the "Imperial/Classical" Romans, who got it by way of the Greek like people of Southern Italy. :)

    One of the counter arguments has always been that there's a lot of R1b in Tuscans. I've always doubted much of it was "Galiic/Celtic", because other than the northwestern fringe, they really only raided into Tuscany proper, not settled. So, where did the R1b come from? One could say the Romans, but the R1b is unbroken all the way north.

    Could it be that the Etruscans, like the Basque, are a case of an R1b but still farmer heavy group mixed with Sardinian like peoples, where, perhaps because it was mostly males by that point, and perhaps the culture was more matrilineal, the children adopted the "farmer" language?

    Could there have been a small, elite movement from the Aegean into "Etruria" in the Iron Age? It's possible, I suppose. Y Dna will tell us what happened, although I'm starting to doubt it. Even if one or two samples carry J2, it could have filtered north or been adopted through the long contact between the Etruscans and the Greeks, both directly and through Magna Graecia. We would need a large number of samples.

    I know it's unbecoming to say "I told you so", but I have to do it. I took such nonsense over the years from people on dna-forums, where I was virtually excluded, to 23andme forums and even here, where I was constantly harassed, and also saw my ideas ridiculed on theapricity, anthrogenica and by "he who most not be named", :).

    That's what happens, people, when you follow an agenda, an ideology, instead of looking at all the evidence. Assemble the facts and only the facts, drop all preconceptions and "ologies", and go from there.

    @Cato,
    I don't know if the more "northern" influence on the Etruscans was Parma Beaker like, or ancient "Ligurian" like, or something else; that's why I said "Parma Beaker like". It definitely seems to be a steppe admixed group to some extent.

    You're right; this happened relatively late.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  2. #202
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Posts
    978
    Points
    18,515
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,515, Level: 41
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 435
    Overall activity: 20.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    6 out of 6 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As for the Etruscans, we knew for a long time that their mtDna was like that of most of southern Germany/Northern Italy, i.e. predominantly MN like, so predominantly "farmer" like but with some absorbed U5, either from the WHG, or from the steppe people. I wouldn't presume to judge. Some ancient MtDna experts will have to figure that out.
    The data of the Etruscans' mtdna are clear. Only those who are biased do not accept them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    One of the arguments for that very late migration directly from Anatolia has been the "elevated" Caucasus like/Iranian like ancestry in modern Tuscans. What an irony if that came by way of the "Imperial/Classical" Romans, who got it by way of the Greek like people of Southern Italy. :)
    Compared to Parma Beaker like, most modern Northern Italians have more CHG.

    Compared to Tuscans, all the central Italians (Marche, Umbria, Lazio) and southern Italians have more CHG than Tuscans, including the Italic and Greek areas. The difference in CHG between Tuscans and many Ligurians and Emilians are small. Romagnolis seem more similar to Adriatic people from Marche.

    So it is quite clear that the extra input of CHG in Italians is not due to the Etruscans, and anyone who is impartial has already understood this a long time ago.

    The Romanization of Italy increased CHG here and there in Italy. It was likely not (always) a Nordicisation of the Italians as had always been believed. Latins, after all, were very few and they couldn't have completely changed the genetics of the Italians. But it's quite clear that Romans were Latins mixed with something else, and what shifted the Romans further south could not be due to the Etruscans.


  3. #203
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,822
    Points
    249,005
    Level
    100
    Points: 249,005, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    4 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    The data of the Etruscans' mtdna are clear. Only those who are biased do not accept them.




    Compared to Parma Beaker like, most modern Northern Italians have more CHG.

    Compared to Tuscans, all the central Italians (Marche, Umbria, Lazio) and southern Italians have more CHG than Tuscans, including the Italic and Greek areas. The difference in CHG between Tuscans and many Ligurians and Emilians are small. Romagnolis seem more similar to Adriatic people from Marche.

    So it is quite clear that the extra input of CHG in Italians is not due to the Etruscans, and anyone who is impartial has already understood this a long time ago.

    The Romanization of Italy increased CHG here and there in Italy. It was likely not (always) a Nordicisation of the Italians as had always been believed. Latins, after all, were very few and they couldn't have completely changed the genetics of the Italians. But it's quite clear that Romans were Latins mixed with something else, and what shifted the Romans further south could not be due to the Etruscans.

    You're very close to complete vindication here, if these "leaks" are authentic, Pax. :)

    You never wavered and you may be proven completely right.

  4. #204
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered10000 Experience Points
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    2,410
    Points
    18,867
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,867, Level: 41
    Level completed: 91%, Points required for next Level: 83
    Overall activity: 46.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    @Angela
    (if these "leaks" are authentic)

    I deleted my previous post coz of that.

    If real, Jovialis and I are a match for the perfect Roman (o quasi, coz of vicinity and overlap) :)

  5. #205
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    12-03-18
    Posts
    109
    Points
    1,505
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,505, Level: 10
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 45
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    - Etruscans from Anatolia theory was likely incorrect.
    - If Etruscans are R1b i will start to think that R1b were not the original indo-european speakers at all.

  6. #206
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranTagger Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-08-12
    Posts
    357
    Points
    9,195
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,195, Level: 28
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    according to Eurogenes comments Picenes, Umbrians and Samnites clustered with Etruscans

    Utilizzando Tapatalk

  7. #207
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    etrusco's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-01-17
    Location
    lombardy
    Posts
    66
    Points
    1,434
    Level
    10
    Points: 1,434, Level: 10
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 116
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Italy



    0 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    according to Eurogenes comments Picenes, Umbrians and Samnites clustered with Etruscans

    Utilizzando Tapatalk
    not according to Eurogenes but according to updated leaks from the authors of the paper on Anthrogenica. But that is quite pretty much obvious that the "etruscans" many are talking about are native umbrians. The proverbial discovery of "hot water".

  8. #208
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpluskx View Post
    - Etruscans from Anatolia theory was likely incorrect.
    - If Etruscans are R1b i will start to think that R1b were not the original indo-european speakers at all.
    Etruscan is unlikely to be related to Basque-Iberian though, so any simplistic equation like R1b = pre-Indo-European doesn't work. If pressed I'd also say R1b groups didn't speak Indo-European, but it's far from conclusive.

  9. #209
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,822
    Points
    249,005
    Level
    100
    Points: 249,005, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    @Angela
    (if these "leaks" are authentic)

    I deleted my previous post coz of that.

    If real, Jovialis and I are a match for the perfect Roman (o quasi, coz of vicinity and overlap) :)
    Yes, perfect Imperial Romans of Rome itself. My husband would fit in that cluster too. He'll definitely "crow" about that when I tell him. :) Or maybe I should wait to see if these leaks are legit, although it seems too detailed to be fake, given the PCA etc.

    We'll have to see what the pre-Imperial Era Romans were like. If that Moots paper is correct, perhaps the Republican Era Romans may be closer to Northern Italians. They sure aren't "pure" steppe Aryans, that's for sure. It's like the Mycenaeans redux. :)

    I wonder about the mytrueancestry stuff. On there I'm at 3.416 with "Central Romans", but who knows if that person actually was a native of "Central Rome". They just may be closest to modern northern and north/Central Italians.

    I keep remembering that Moots said some of the ancient samples were Northern Italian like and some were Southern Italian like, but none of the samples landed on Rome itself, which may mean modern central Italians, except perhaps the Tuscans, are just a mixture of those two?

    @Cato,

    The only way they'd know the Etruscans are similar to Umbrians, etc. is if they also have ancient samples from those people. Do they?

  10. #210
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranTagger Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-08-12
    Posts
    357
    Points
    9,195
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,195, Level: 28
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Cato,

    The only way they'd know the Etruscans are similar to Umbrians, etc. is if they also have ancient samples from those people. Do they?
    judging from what i've read yes they have them


    Utilizzando Tapatalk

  11. #211
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Posts
    978
    Points
    18,515
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,515, Level: 41
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 435
    Overall activity: 20.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You're very close to complete vindication here, if these "leaks" are authentic, Pax. :)

    You never wavered and you may be proven completely right.

    I have nothing to "vindicate".

    It's not the forums that decide what's true or not.


    On the Etruscans there are many agendas, especially of people who have no relationship with the Etruscans. Those who really have a relationship with the Etruscans are generally not passionate about the subject of their origins, based on my personal experience.

    I am serene, whether these leaks are true or false. No one can assure us that these leaks are true. It is enough to have read with sincere interest everything about the Etruscans, to figure out who they were.
    Last edited by Pax Augusta; 19-05-19 at 09:51.

  12. #212
    Moderator Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Posts
    978
    Points
    18,515
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,515, Level: 41
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 435
    Overall activity: 20.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    according to Eurogenes comments Picenes, Umbrians and Samnites clustered with Etruscans

    Utilizzando Tapatalk
    It seems unlikely to me.

    But let's take one of the arguments the migrationists are using to demonstrate that the Etruscans were an Anatolian elite who imposed themselves on an Italic population: modern Tuscans are more southern eastern shifted than Etruscans (the other argument that the Etruscan samples analysed are in fact Italic or Umbrians is so simple-minded that it does not deserve further comment). First of all not only the Tuscans but also many North Italians are more southeast than those Etruscan samples.

    And in any case it proves once again to be fallacious, because modern people from Marche (Picenes), Umbria (Umbrians), and Abruzzo, Molise, Campania (Samnites) are more south eastern than Tuscans. So according to their own theory, these regions should have received more migrations from Anatolia, as showed by A. Raveane et al.

    So, once again, whatever moved the Tuscans further southeast, there is no evidence that it could be due to an IA or late BA Anatolian origin of the elite of the Etruscans. I repeat, also considering that the same north Italians are usually more southeast than Parma Bell Beaker and the mtdna analyzed so far of the Etruscan samples is not compatible with this kind of allochthonous origin of the Etruscans.



  13. #213
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    61
    Points
    1,885
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,885, Level: 12
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 265
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    according to the other leak Latium was still EEF in 1700 bc so the Latins arrived in the MBA or more likely in the LBA

    Remedello 3 (2000 bc circa) was still EEF too so the indoeuropeans came in italy likely in the MBA (from Hungary?), i dont think that Parma Bell Beaker had a great impact genetically because the Po Plain was completely repopulated in the early MBA by Poladans and people from Danubian plain

    Utilizzando Tapatalk
    Because there is a chance the Latins and the other Italic peoples were G,I,J2b, and some others (some L and E, maybe T).

    The Romans were a mix of the Etrucans and Italic people, so more R1b.

  14. #214
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    Can anyone discern with whom those Etruscans plot? A bit closer to Iberians than to North Italians? One of them looks rather French.

  15. #215
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    23-02-11
    Posts
    193
    Points
    8,063
    Level
    26
    Points: 8,063, Level: 26
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 87
    Overall activity: 38.0%


    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Personally, I have never believed in an eastern origin of the Etruscans. I'm glad that we're finally getting to the bottom of this.

  16. #216
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,822
    Points
    249,005
    Level
    100
    Points: 249,005, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Can anyone discern with whom those Etruscans plot? A bit closer to Iberians than to North Italians? One of them looks French.
    On the PCA someone put up, the poster said the Etruscan plotted near the more steppe admixed Parma Beaker sample, which is closer to Extremadura, which is one of the more "southern" Iberian provinces, being close to Portugal, i.e. "western" Iberia.

    I'm never sure about these PCAs with ancient samples just plopped on a PCA of modern samples, however. I'd like to see real statistical analysis as well, not just two dimensions.

    If we only have "one" autosomal result from an ancient Etruscan I think we should be cautious, however. Look at the differences between the Parma Beaker samples. Even more caution will be warranted if we have only one Y dna as well.

    For what it's worth, I always get them as close matches on "good" calculators, and on today's revised archaeosamples from mytrueancestry I now have tons of ancient samples from Iberia. The whole list has changed. I should post to see the fit compared to actual Iberians.

    As for the actual PCA from the paper, I can't make heads or tails of it. Yellow squares are all over the area and I can't see the difference between the "yellow" Italians, and the "yellow" Iberians.

    Do you by any chance have a link to the modern PCA which forms the background?

  17. #217
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,199
    Points
    10,445
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,445, Level: 30
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 105
    Overall activity: 48.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    There are some seriously awful (AWFUL!!!) posts surrounding this topic on a***ro***ica by hateful members with their heavy assumptions. I have no agenda and if a professionally conducted study proves the ancient Romans were anything (South/north Italian, German, Spanish, whatever) I'll live with it.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

  18. #218
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    On the PCA someone put up, the poster said the Etruscan plotted near the more steppe admixed Parma Beaker sample, which is closer to Extremadura, which is one of the more "southern" Iberian provinces, being close to Portugal, i.e. "western" Iberia.

    I'm never sure about these PCAs with ancient samples just plopped on a PCA of modern samples, however. I'd like to see real statistical analysis as well, not just two dimensions.

    If we only have "one" autosomal result from an ancient Etruscan I think we should be cautious, however. Look at the differences between the Parma Beaker samples. Even more caution will be warranted if we have only one Y dna as well.

    For what it's worth, I always get them as close matches on "good" calculators, and on today's revised archaeosamples from mytrueancestry I now have tons of ancient samples from Iberia. The whole list has changed. I should post to see the fit compared to actual Iberians.

    As for the actual PCA from the paper, I can't make heads or tails of it. Yellow squares are all over the area and I can't see the difference between the "yellow" Italians, and the "yellow" Iberians.

    Do you by any chance have a link to the modern PCA which forms the background?
    No, it doesn't seem to be based on the dataset used by Lazaridis and others, so we can only guess. Though the cluster just above the Etruscans I'm pretty sure are Iberians, while one Etruscan is more Italian and another one more within the Central European range.

  19. #219
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    There are some seriously awful (AWFUL!!!) posts surrounding this topic on a***ro***ica by hateful members with their heavy assumptions. I have no agenda and if a professionally conducted study proves the ancient Romans were anything (South/north Italian, German, Spanish, whatever) I'll live with it.
    What is their explanation for the Roman position in the PCA? Jews, or Syrians this time?

    It's definitely interesting though, why are some of the Romans between South Italians and Cypriotes? It looks like a stabilised cluster so any imperial immigration hypothesis is untenable. Greek settlement doesn't work either. This is Mediterranean Bronze Age ancestry 99% sure.

  20. #220
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,199
    Points
    10,445
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,445, Level: 30
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 105
    Overall activity: 48.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    What is their explanation for the Roman position in the PCA? Jews, or Syrians this time?

    It's definitely interesting though, why are some of the Romans between South Italians and Cretans? It looks like a stabilised cluster so any imperial immigration hypothesis is untenable. Greek settlement doesn't work either. This is Mediterranean Bronze Age ancestry 99% sure.
    Indeed! You get an upvote

  21. #221
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    berun's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-11-15
    Posts
    1,084
    Points
    8,680
    Level
    27
    Points: 8,680, Level: 27
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 70
    Overall activity: 15.0%


    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    2 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    As far as I know Etruscans incinerated, so no DNA available other than lucky finds or with outliers... I prefer to wait, Reich and co just did that with Ullastret skulls, they were exposed on the streets with their swords, they were like war trophies and are not the usual Iberian incineration, these skulls had some extra CE autosomal, and it could fit Gauls trying to do what they were doing in Italy, the Balkans, or Anatolia, or in France itself the Volci.
    "What I've seen so far after my entire career chasing Indoeuropeans is that our solutions look tissue thin and our problems still look monumental" J.P.Mallory

    "The ultimate homeland of the group [PIE] that also spread Anatolian languages is less clear." D. Reich

  22. #222
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,370
    Points
    5,836
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,836, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 214
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    There are some seriously awful (AWFUL!!!) posts surrounding this topic on a***ro***ica by hateful members with their heavy assumptions. I have no agenda and if a professionally conducted study proves the ancient Romans were anything (South/north Italian, German, Spanish, whatever) I'll live with it.
    What does it means?

  23. #223
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,370
    Points
    5,836
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,836, Level: 22
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 214
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    I read the paper and a litte bit of the posts but i'm out of touch with this paper. Can someone make me a little summary of the community conclusions? Especially about Etruscans?

  24. #224
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    916
    Points
    12,460
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,460, Level: 33
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 190
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    What is their explanation for the Roman position in the PCA? Jews, or Syrians this time?

    It's definitely interesting though, why are some of the Romans between South Italians and Cypriotes? It looks like a stabilised cluster so any imperial immigration hypothesis is untenable. Greek settlement doesn't work either. This is Mediterranean Bronze Age ancestry 99% sure.
    Markod do you think its possible that romans were transylvanian migrants?
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  25. #225
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-06-17
    Posts
    916
    Points
    12,460
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,460, Level: 33
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 190
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    This is very exciting, yet at the same time frustrating that we have to wait for results. Is there indiciation that Y dna has been tested in this paper?

Page 9 of 25 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •