Population structure in Italy using ancient and modern samples

If Euganei were expelled from the Veneti, how can they be the first Venetic people? The Euganei were certainly one of the first Venetic people, if not the first, in a broad sense. But they were more similar to Camuni and Rhaetians than to the Veneti in my opinion. Euganei probably represented the pre-indo-European layer. Of course, this does not imply that in the late Bronze Age or early Iron age Euganei were genetically completely pre-Indo-European or EEF. I don't know if it's clear what I mean.

If the venetic and rhaetic are similar in languages, then clearly they did not come via any anatolian migration, but from the indigenous Euganei
With oxford uni. papers claiming venetic appeared not before 1150bc, then the Euganei must be the source.

Also roman historian Cato stating the euganei where numerous , 34 towns , and wide spread, ......we need to only investigate how long they where there
 
If the venetic and rhaetic are similar in languages

I think you're confusing the language with the alphabet/script again.


If the Venetic and the Rhaetic/Rhaetian are similar in languages, it means that the Venetic is also a Tyrrhenian language.
 
wy1D99N.png


By the Late Republic, if the Italics from the steppe did mix with the Aegean-like populations in Southern Italy; figures C and F sort of look like Italia during that time.

OfNKOe3.jpg


Moreover, my K36 heat map sort of looks like a silhouette of the Roman empire.

550now6.png

From 340 BCE, Rome started expanding its territory by waging war with its neighbours, first the other Latin tribes, then the Samnites and Umbrians (other Italic peoples), the Etruscans and the Greeks of southern Italy, who were all conquered by 270 BCE. All these people became assimilated by the Romans and acquired Roman citizenship in 88 BCE at the end of the Social War. During the Late Republican period, the Roman ethnicity was no longer purely Italic, but increasingly a meger of Italic, Greek and Etruscan people.

https://www.eupedia.com/history/roman_trivia.shtml

Maciamo is spot on with his trivia of the Ancient Romans.

I think that after this point, that merger which created the Late Republican Romans of Italia, then permeated throughout Europe, within the boarders of the empire.
 
How peculiar that these authors are still running up the flag for a significantly Near Eastern arrival in Toscana, i.e. the Herodotus theory. I guess they're not very plugged in. If the rumours are correct they're going to have eggs all over their faces, along with Carlos Quilles.

Maybe that's why they were looking for an "Iranian farmer" component. Unfortunately for them, it's only in the south.

The more I think about that component, the more bizarre it seems. Iran Neo is really a lot of Iran herder plus a lot of Anatolian Neo. It probably could be split up into Anatolian Neo and CHG like.

They themselves think there are differences in the results depending upon which CHG sample they use.

No, this paper is definitely NOT the one.

Not to mention that PCAs are being generated all over the place which are incorrect because there's only ONE Ligurian sample, and NO Emilia Romagna samples.

Shoemakers, my dad would have said. :)
 
I think you're confusing the language with the alphabet/script again.


If the Venetic and the Rhaetic/Rhaetian are similar in languages, it means that the Venetic is also a Tyrrhenian language.

your missing the point, it has nothing to do with alphabet or script , nothing to do with the venetic from the black sea area or the rhaetic people from central europe. it has to do with that it must belong to the indigenous people of the eastern alps and the plains of modern veneto and friuli ....the Euganei people ..........who are associated with Camunic, Magre or Atestine and these are all the same as is rhaetic , venetic...........the alphabet or script or anything could not have migrated to this area from anywhere with any other people. I cannot see this script or alphabet being from Black sea anatolia to the german lands of central europe, it makes no sense, it can only come from the Euganei.

Giancarlo Tomezzoli states the Rhaetic came from The ancient Rhaetians were a Central European people spread in a land comprising: Voralberg and Tirol in present Austria, Trentino and Western Veneto in present Italy, Eastern Switzerland Cantons, part of Bavaria and Baden-Würtenberg in present Germany. The Venetic from the Black sea Anatolia
 
I had to remove some samples because they were drifting too much. G25 miscalculations or because of the samples themselves? An individual from Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige plots in the Hungarian cluster, an individual from Italian_Northeast plots between Slovenes and Croats. Why did the study use people from the Alps who are not completely Italian?

Yes, Liguria is represented by a single individual. There is a small hole between central Italy and northern Italy due to the lack of samples but the distance is small especially between Italian_Tuscany and the Ligurian sample in this PCA.

What I find interesting is that the PCA with these new samples shows that not all northern Italy is Iberian-like. The genetic structure of northern Italy seems to me more complex than that of the rest of the country and more samples for northern Italy are needed.



Europe-PCA-G25.jpg


Europe-PCA-G25.jpg
 
The "hole" is not between central and northern Italy but between Northern Italy and Toscana, and it doesn't exist in reality. Emilia Romagna would undoubtedly fill that space, as it does on PCAs based on complete sets of samples. Btw, Toscana is not Central Italy.

Western Liguria, from which the Ligurian sample probably comes given where it plots, is more "northern" than eastern Liguria, but you wouldn't know it by using one sample. There is also a lot of variation within Emilia Romagna, especially west versus east.

I have been saying for more than ten years that there is by far more variation within the Northern Italian group than there is within the part of Italy which was known as the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. The only slight difference is the North African in Sicilians.

Amateurs have been sold a bill of goods about Southern Italy based on old calculator results of people of unknown actual provenance, although this paper's conclusions deserve no prize. It certainly isn't a good sign that they couldn't be trusted to make sure that all four grandparents were Italian, and not some descendants of German or Croatian families stranded when the borders changed. Where did they go to get some samples, in the most northern regions of the Alto Adige or Istria? For crying out loud. If they're using them to calculate fst distances from western Sicilians for example, they're exaggerating the overall variation. I don't know if they're just dumb or what.

Ed.
Geneticists have to be very careful with samples from Trentino Alto-Adige. A lot of the real "natives" are actually of Austrian/German stock. Then there are some much more recent Italian arrivals from further south. You have to decide what you're trying to see and then pick the samples carefully accordingly. Even after taking the obvious outliers out, I wouldn't necessarily trust the placement of that Trentino sample(s). The same is true for "northeast" Italy. You shouldn't use those highly drifted samples that were part of a medical study if I remember correctly. They're not representative. Neither, of course, should you use samples like those from, for example, a family like that of Lidia Bastianich.


If samples from, say, Provence, were available, you'd see other correspondences.
 
It always depends on the samples chosen. This is very true for every amateur tool, also true for academic studies.
 
It always depends on the samples chosen. This is very true for every amateur tool, also true for academic studies.

Very true, Brick. That's why not only should the samples be chosen honestly, they should also be chosen with professionalism and a knowledge of the "ethnic" context.

It's inexcusable to include Croatians and Germans, and to think you can capture the variation of any Italian province with one sample. What makes it worse is that these are Italians.

Why Davidski didn't include Emilia Romagna in what he released I have no idea. If the authors didn't want to release them then likewise I don't get it. Did they use substandard samples?

You can't test the work of another group unless you have access to all the samples. How is anyone supposed to try to replicate their analysis?
 
Very true, Brick. That's why not only should the samples be chosen honestly, they should also be chosen with professionalism and a knowledge of the "ethnic" context.

It's inexcusable to include Croatians and Germans, and to think you can capture the variation of any Italian province with one sample. What makes it worse is that these are Italians.

Why Davidski didn't include Emilia Romagna in what he released I have no idea. If the authors didn't want to release them then likewise I don't get it. Did they use substandard samples?

You can't test the work of another group unless you have access to all the samples. How is anyone supposed to try to replicate their analysis?
Not even a sample was release from Piedmont.
 
The "hole" is not between central and northern Italy but between Northern Italy and Toscana, and it doesn't exist in reality. Emilia Romagna would undoubtedly fill that space, as it does on PCAs based on complete sets of samples. Btw, Toscana is not Central Italy.

Western Liguria, from which the Ligurian sample probably comes given where it plots, is more "northern" than eastern Liguria, but you wouldn't know it by using one sample. There is also a lot of variation within Emilia Romagna, especially west versus east.

Well said, Angela.
In the past few days Pax had the patience to rework the PCA, including my data, and I fall exactly into the "ghost" cluster, a little dispersed from the others.


Beata solitudo, sola beatitudo :)

_________________

(without eigenvalue scale)

69548849_916483782058790_6803986864182132736_n.png



(with eigenvalue scale)

69833244_2379825128900170_8623412345948864512_n.png
 
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@Angela, and Brick:

Here are some of the samples from the study, along with the Sample ID. I took it from the supplement material, in the study. It is in the first excel sheet, in Data File S1 on the cluster composition tabs

SCItaly1ITC-ABR_GAlp090
SCItaly1ITC-ABR_GAlp140
SCItaly1ITC-ABR_GALP161
SCItaly1ITC-ABR_GAlp162
SItaly3ITC-ABR_GALP205
SCItaly1ITC-ABR_GAlp380
SItaly3ITC-ABR_GAlp503
SCItaly1ITC-ABR_GAlp616
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid004
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid019
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid022
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid056
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid066
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid083
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid100
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid113
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid118
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid146
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid185
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid188
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid189
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid209
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid215
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid216
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid223
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid225
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid230
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid236
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid251
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid257
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid262
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid273
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid274
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid278
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid288
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_Gid300
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_GNOR24
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_GNOR28
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_GPG28
SCItaly1ITC-LAZ_GPG30
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABG010D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABI020D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABN020D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABP050D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABQ080D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABU050D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarABY030D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACM040D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACO060D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACO100D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACV100D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACW030D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACW080D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarACY030D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarADC050D
SCItaly1ITC-MAR_GMarADG030D
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid018
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid031
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid065
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid068
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid074
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid086
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid091
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid117
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid122
NCItaly3ITC-TSI_Gid136
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid169
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid177
EXCLUDEDITC-TSI_Gid183
NCItaly3ITC-TSI_Gid213
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid239
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid240
NCItaly3ITC-TSI_Gid283
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid286
SCItaly1ITC-TSI_Gid296
NCItaly3ITC-TSI_GMURLO114
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20502
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20503
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20504
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20505
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20506
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20507
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20508
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20509
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20510
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20512
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20513
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20514
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20515
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20516
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20517
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20518
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20519
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20520
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20521
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20522
NItaly3ITC-TSI_GNA20524
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20525
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20527
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20528
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20529
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20530
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20531
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20532
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20533
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20534
NItaly3ITC-TSI_GNA20535
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20536
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20537
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20538
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20539
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20540
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20541
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20542
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20543
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20544
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20581
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20582
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20585
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20586
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20588
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20589
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20752
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20753
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20754
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20755
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20756
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20757
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20758
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20759
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20761
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20765
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20766
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20768
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20769
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20770
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20771
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20772
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20773
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20774
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20775
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20778
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20783
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20785
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20786
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20787
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20790
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20792
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20795
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20796
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20797
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20798
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20799
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20800
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20801
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20802
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20803
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20804
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20805
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20806
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20807
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20808
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20809
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20810
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20811
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20812
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20813
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20814
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20815
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20816
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20818
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20819
NCItaly2ITC-TSI_GNA20826
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GNA20828
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GVO59
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GVO65
NCItaly1ITC-TSI_GVO109
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG03
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG04
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG05
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG06
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG07
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG08
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG11
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG12
SCItaly1ITC-UMB_GPG15
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid008
NCItaly1ITN-EMI_Gid029
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid030
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid034
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid042
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid048
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid057
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid059
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid067
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid078
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid079
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid082
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid084
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid092
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid101
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid103
NCItaly1ITN-EMI_Gid116
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid124
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid162
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid172
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid178
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid180
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid191
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid224
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid229
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid238
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid245
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid260
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid291
NItaly3ITN-EMI_Gid295
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP081
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP093
EEurope1ITN-FRI_GALP188
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP220
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP233
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP235
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP280
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP346
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP354
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP435
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GALP506
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GKF1800761
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GKF1803129
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GKF2700922
NItaly6ITN-FRI_GKF2700960
NItaly3ITN-LIG_GALP099
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid027
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid035
NItaly4ITN-LIG_Gid041
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid045
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid047
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid060
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid062
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid063
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid089
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid093
EXCLUDEDITN-LIG_Gid105
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid119
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid126
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid132
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid138
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid141
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid153
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid158
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid187
NItaly6ITN-LIG_Gid200
NItaly6ITN-LIG_Gid204
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid250
NItaly3ITN-LIG_Gid290
SCItaly1ITN-LIG_Gid292
NItaly3ITN-LOM_GALP288
NItaly4ITN-LOM_GBGD28
NItaly4ITN-LOM_GBGD31
NItaly4ITN-LOM_GBGD103
NItaly4ITN-LOM_GBGD301
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid002
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid013
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid040
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid046
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid050
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid055
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid080
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid081
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid090
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid104
EXCLUDEDITN-LOM_Gid106
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid121
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid123
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid145
EXCLUDEDITN-LOM_Gid147
EXCLUDEDITN-LOM_Gid148
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid149
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid154
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid181
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid192
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid201
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid202
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid205
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid219
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid221
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid222
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid233
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid241
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid243
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid246
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid252
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid265
NItaly4ITN-LOM_Gid267
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid294
NItaly3ITN-LOM_Gid298
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid007
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid010
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid011
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid015
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid016
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid049
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid069
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid088
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid097
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid098
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid099
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid129
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid137
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid150
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid163
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid207
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid212
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid217
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid218
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid227
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid244
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid247
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid255
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid259
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid264
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid272
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid281
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid282
NItaly3ITN-PIE_Gid289
NItaly6ITN-TRE_GALP070
NItaly6ITN-TRE_GALP071
NItaly3ITN-TRE_GALP114
NItaly6ITN-TRE_GALP200
NItaly6ITN-TRE_GALP259
EXCLUDEDITN-TRE_GALP395
EEurope1ITN-TRE_GALP414
NItaly6ITN-TRE_GALP420
NItaly1ITN-VDA_GALP225
NItaly1ITN-VDA_GALP227
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid028
EXCLUDEDITN-VDA_Gid039
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid044
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid071
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid073
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid077
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid096
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid110
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid112
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid114
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid128
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid159
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid160
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid164
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid171
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid176
EXCLUDEDITN-VDA_Gid182
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid184
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid186
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid193
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid196
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid198
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid210
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid214
EXCLUDEDITN-VDA_Gid220
NItaly1ITN-VDA_Gid234
NItaly3ITN-VDA_Gid242
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP022
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP040
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GAlp100
NItaly3ITN-VEN_GALP116
NItaly3ITN-VEN_GALP209
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP249
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP250
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP273
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP322
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GALP378
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GAlp401
NItaly3ITN-VEN_GKF1800751
NItaly3ITN-VEN_GKF1800772
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GKF1803105
NItaly3ITN-VEN_GKF1803109
NItaly6ITN-VEN_GKF1803151
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid005
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid009
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid017
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid026
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid038
SItaly2ITS-BAS_Gid043
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid053
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid072
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid075
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid102
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid107
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid111
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid115
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid127
SItaly2ITS-BAS_Gid152
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid155
SItaly2ITS-BAS_Gid156
SItaly1ITS-BAS_Gid167
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid170
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid179
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid194
SItaly2ITS-BAS_Gid211
EXCLUDEDITS-BAS_Gid226
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid248
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid258
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid263
SItaly2ITS-BAS_Gid271
SItaly3ITS-BAS_Gid297
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG16
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG17
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG18
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG19
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG20
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG21
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG22
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG24
SItaly3ITS-BAS_GPG25
SItaly1ITS-CAL_GALP582
SItaly3ITS-CAL_GALP596
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid014
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid020
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid032
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid054
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid061
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid094
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid139
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid157
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid174
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid253
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid266
SItaly1ITS-CAL_Gid280
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN43TC
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN46TC
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN58AC
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN65DFG
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN77FAM
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN119AMR
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN128LA
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN195ST
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN207MM
SCItaly1ITS-CAM_GNaN212CR
SCItaly1ITS-CAM_GNaN238DM
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN275IS
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN289RM
SItaly3ITS-CAM_GNaN293SF
SItaly3ITS-MOL_GPG26
SCItaly1ITS-MOL_GPG27
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GALP379
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GALP583
SItaly3ITS-PUG_Gcera1
SItaly3ITS-PUG_Gcera2
SItaly3ITS-PUG_Gcera8
SCItaly1ITS-PUG_Gcera9
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GGS32
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GGS34
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GGS47
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GPu2
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GPu3
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GPu7
SItaly1ITS-PUG_GPu8
SItaly3ITS-PUG_GPu45
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid001
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid003
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid006
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid021
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid024
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid037
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid051
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid058
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid085
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid108
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid109
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid120
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid130
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid134
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid135
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid161
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid165
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid173
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid175
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid195
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid197
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid228
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid235
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid256
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid269
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid276
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid277
Sardinia3ITS-SAR_Gid279
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid284
Sardinia1ITS-SAR_Gid287
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid012
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid023
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid025
Sicily2ITS-SIC_Gid033
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid052
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid064
Sicily2ITS-SIC_Gid070
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid076
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid087
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid095
EXCLUDEDITS-SIC_Gid125
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid131
SItaly3ITS-SIC_Gid140
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid142
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid143
Sicily2ITS-SIC_Gid144
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid166
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid168
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid190
SItaly3ITS-SIC_Gid199
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid203
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid206
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid208
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid231
Sicily2ITS-SIC_Gid232
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid249
SItaly3ITS-SIC_Gid254
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid268
SItaly1ITS-SIC_Gid270
Sicily1ITS-SIC_Gid275
SItaly3ITS-SIC_Gid293


hokOzP2.png
 
FYI

The SBA like ancestry in this study is mostly associated with Finnish-like ancestry. That is want they mean by NEurope 1

NEurope1FinnishHG00171
NEurope1FinnishHG00173
NEurope1FinnishHG00174
NEurope1FinnishHG00176
NEurope1FinnishHG00177
NEurope1FinnishHG00178
NEurope1FinnishHG00179
NEurope1FinnishHG00180
NEurope1FinnishHG00181
NEurope1FinnishHG00182
NEurope1FinnishHG00183
NEurope1FinnishHG00185
NEurope1FinnishHG00186
NEurope1FinnishHG00187
NEurope1FinnishHG00188
NEurope1FinnishHG00189
NEurope1FinnishHG00190
NEurope1FinnishHG00266
NEurope1FinnishHG00267
NEurope1FinnishHG00268
NEurope1FinnishHG00269
NEurope1FinnishHG00270
NEurope1FinnishHG00271
NEurope1FinnishHG00272
NEurope1FinnishHG00273
NEurope1FinnishHG00274
NEurope1FinnishHG00275
NEurope1FinnishHG00276
NEurope1FinnishHG00277
NEurope1FinnishHG00278
NEurope1FinnishHG00280
NEurope1FinnishHG00281
NEurope1FinnishHG00282
NEurope1FinnishHG00284
NEurope1FinnishHG00285
NEurope1FinnishHG00306
NEurope1FinnishHG00308
NEurope1FinnishHG00309
NEurope1FinnishHG00310
NEurope1FinnishHG00311
NEurope1FinnishHG00312
NEurope1FinnishHG00313
NEurope1FinnishHG00315
NEurope1FinnishHG00318
NEurope1FinnishHG00319
NEurope1FinnishHG00320
NEurope1FinnishHG00321
NEurope1FinnishHG00323
NEurope1FinnishHG00324
NEurope1FinnishHG00325
NEurope1FinnishHG00326
NEurope1FinnishHG00327
NEurope1FinnishHG00328
NEurope1FinnishHG00329
NEurope1FinnishHG00330
NEurope1FinnishHG00331
NEurope1FinnishHG00332
NEurope1FinnishHG00334
NEurope1FinnishHG00335
NEurope1FinnishHG00336
NEurope1FinnishHG00337
NEurope1FinnishHG00338
NEurope1FinnishHG00339
NEurope1FinnishHG00341
NEurope1FinnishHG00342
NEurope1FinnishHG00343
NEurope1FinnishHG00344
NEurope1FinnishHG00345
NEurope1FinnishHG00346
NEurope1FinnishHG00349
NEurope1FinnishHG00350
NEurope1FinnishHG00351
NEurope1FinnishHG00353
NEurope1FinnishHG00355
NEurope1FinnishHG00356
NEurope1FinnishHG00357
NEurope1FinnishHG00358
NEurope1FinnishHG00359
NEurope1FinnishHG00360
NEurope1FinnishHG00361
NEurope1FinnishHG00362
NEurope1FinnishHG00364
NEurope1FinnishHG00365
NEurope1FinnishHG00366
NEurope1FinnishHG00367
NEurope1FinnishHG00368
NEurope1FinnishHG00369
NEurope1FinnishHG00371
NEurope1FinnishHG00372
NEurope1FinnishHG00373
NEurope1FinnishHG00375
NEurope1FinnishHG00376
NEurope1FinnishHG00377
NEurope1FinnishHG00378
NEurope1FinnishHG00379
NEurope1FinnishHG00380
NEurope1FinnishHG00381
NEurope1FinnishHG00382
NEurope1FinnishHG00383
NEurope1FinnishHG00384

vl8tToO.png

dGcNc3F.png
 
To make a broad generalization according to this study, you can say everyone in Europe is just on a gradient of being Finnish-like (SBA), Sardinian-like (EEF), Apulian-Like (ABA), with WHG as a minority component. Because that’s what is inferred by using these types of components.
 
Some comments on samples from Aosta Valley:

This study has only two samples from Aosta. There was a study a few years ago with over 20 samples from Aosta.

I compared these two new Aostans to those 20 Aosta samples, from the old study which I have also downloaded.

And here is what I see:

ALP225 - this sample is just like Aostans from the old study, a little bit more Piedmont-like
ALP227 - this sample is almost certainly a German-speaking Aostan (Walser minority)

The second sample is much more northern-shifted, similar to Saarland and Swiss Germans.

=====

PS:

A bit disappointed that some regions are not represented or represented by very few samples.
 
​Two more outliers:

ALP188
from Friuli and ALP414 from Trentino have at least partially Slavic ancestry (probably Slovene or Carinthian Slovene).

Is there a Slavic-speaking minority in Friuli and/or in Trentino?
 
Yes, in Friuli we have Resian and Slovenian minorities, plus the plains were heavy repopulated after hungarian and turkish raids and differents plagues which hitted the area between medieval age and renaissance with people from Balkans, mostly slavic speaking. So there are both slavic speaking minority and an important slavic component in the development of Friulian "ethnicity" (attested also by a great deal of slavic loanwords and toponyms). Besides the two major towns in eastern Friuli region (Gorizia and Trieste) received a not irrelevant influx of settlers from all the former Austro-Hungarian Empire till the annexation of this area to Italy (since you are a Pole I can make you the example of my chemistry teacher in high school whose family came to my hometown from the polish speaking area in the XIX century).
There is this guy with ancestry from Trieste, with whom I would form a new Y branch based on STR markers. Indeed, he has an "Italian" family name, but it's derived from a Slovenian one, ended by "vitz". There must be many similar cases in there.

Also, I know abt. a man from Udine province (close to Gemona del Friuli, more specifically) who scores almost 50% of East Europe in myOrigins, in line with what you said. I myself score 10%, then I assume he would score in 23andMe less than those 50%. Still...
It must be linked with all those R1a-s in Udine province. (Out of curiosity, according to a 23andMe match, this seems to be the line of my mother-in-law's father, whose father was born precisely in Udine-UD.)
 
There is this guy with ancestry from Trieste, with whom I would form a new Y branch based on STR markers. Indeed, he has an "Italian" family name, but it's derived from a Slovenian one, ended by "vitz". There must be many similar cases in there.

Also, I know abt. a man from Udine province (close to Gemona del Friuli, more specifically) who scores almost 50% of East Europe in myOrigins, in line with what you said. I myself score 10%, then I assume he would score in 23andMe less than those 50%. Still...
It must be linked with all those R1a-s in Udine province. (Out of curiosity, according to a 23andMe match, this seems to be the line of my mother-in-law's father, whose father was born precisely in Udine-UD.)

Not all R1a are in friuli, my wife line is from the north of livenza river to san stino di livenza in the south, province of venice


Btw....plwase send me privately the link to check our relatives as i lost it when my old pc died in early august
 

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