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Thread: Y Chromosome Sequences Reveal a Short Beringian Standstill, Rapid Expansion, and earl

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    Y Chromosome Sequences Reveal a Short Beringian Standstill, Rapid Expansion, and earl

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...gg2cetTqTWGgJM

    Highlights

    We sequenced 20 Native American Y chromosomes chosen for their genetic diversity

    A Beringian Standstill of <4,600 years led to both Siberian and American Y-lineages

    Y-lineage split times rule out occupation of the Americas before 19,500 years ago

    Present-day male population structure in South America arose before 12,000 years ago


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    Wow, they really got down to South America fast, only 7,500 years between general American occupation and South American male population structure was complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey37 View Post
    Wow, they really got down to South America fast, only 7,500 years between general American occupation and South American male population structure was complete.
    7500 years is not fast. They were hunter gathers, so any extra child would put pressure on their food security. To release that pressure they needed to move to new territories. American Indians are known for Geronticide, which meant they killed their elders to preserve food. It was practiced by Inuit's until lately. Infanticide was used by African hunter gathers.

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    It was already known that Q1a-L54 was found among ancient Hunnic and Alanic genomes (L330 branch), but also in modern Scandinavia and in places settled by the Vikings (L804 branch). The Scandinavian branch was estimated to have split from the main Amerindian branch (M3) 15 kya by Yfull and 17 kya by this paper. I did not have much information on the Z780 branch, which split before that. It turns out that it was also Amerindian, including Clovis/Anzick. In other words, the Scandinavian L804 branch emerged from the same founding population as those who would become the Native Americans. It's just that this branch went back west from Bering and crossed all Siberia until Scandinavia. That explains why some Northern Europeans have traces of Beringian and Amerindian-like autosomal DNA (e.g. in Harappa World K=16).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    In other words, the Scandinavian L804 branch emerged from the same founding population as those who would become the Native Americans. It's just that this branch went back west from Bering and crossed all Siberia until Scandinavia. That explains why some Northern Europeans have traces of Beringian and Amerindian-like autosomal DNA (e.g. in Harappa World K=16).
    Could it be that they arrived from Greenland or Iceland?

    Greenland has been politically and culturally associated with Europe (specifically Norway and Denmark, the colonial powers, as well as the nearby island of Iceland) for more than a millennium.[9] The majority of its residents are Inuit, whose ancestors began migrating from the Canadian mainland in the 13th century, gradually settling across the island.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit
    Neopisivo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Could it be that they arrived from Greenland or Iceland?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit
    If so, you'd expect some traces of it in Iceland.
    And a more recent TMRCA.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L804/

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    If so, you'd expect some traces of it in Iceland.
    And a more recent TMRCA.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L804/
    I actually found two Icelanders in the tree.

    Ok. Iceland was probably uninhabited before the first Norse people arrived. However, the Greenlanders have a long history of contacts with Europeans.

    Today, most Greenlanders are bilingual speakers of Kalaallisut and Danish and most trace their lineage to the first Inuit that came to Greenland. The vast majority of ethnic Greenlanders reside in Greenland or elsewhere in Danish Realm, primarily Denmark proper (approximately 20,000 Greenlanders reside in Denmark proper). A small minority reside in other countries, mostly elsewhere in Scandinavia and North America. There are some Greenlanders who are multiracial, mostly due to Danish colonists and other Europeans marrying into Inuit families.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenlandic_Inuit

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    One of the new ancient DNA samples from Lovelock Cave, Nevada, is on the Q-YP4004 branch (sister to Q-L54 under Q1a2a-L53). Q-Z780 and Q-M930 only share one SNP (M1107) that Q-L330 lacks, effectively a trifurcation of Q-L54.

    The new South American C-MPB373 sample is basal to the C-F4032/F1699 clade containing almost all known C2b-L1373; it seems to be at about the same position as YF's C2b* sample from Liaoning (ELT50074), possibly the same branch. North American C-P39 was already known to be within C-F3918 and roughly sister to North Asian C-F1756/B78 and Koryak C-B77, its position isn't nailed down any tighter. (The only other C-F3918 sample in this paper, Kazakh2, is ERS2478519 on YF tree.)

    So now both Amerindian Y hgs, Q1a2a-L53 and C2b-L1373, have intertwined American and Eurasian branches and no clean ancient split. Also worth noting is that all of the samples here are South American, and there may be additional Q branches (besides Arctic Q1a1a-NWT01) to be found in North America.

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    In 2015 a new layer was found at Mesa Verde, Chili, dating human activity to 18.5 ka :

    Monte Verde Level I (MV-I)
    Monte Verde I is located under an outwash plain.[1] In 2013, Dillehay and his team returned to perform another excavation at Monte Verde.[1] In 2015, Monte Verde I was re-dated to around 18,500 to 14,500 BP.[1] Charcoal remains, charred animal bone fragments and several lithic artefacts, about 34% of which was derived from non-local sources, were discovered.[1]

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0141923

    This predates TRMCA for Q-Z780.
    Maybe they were the newly discovered C2-MBP373 ?

    Remains the question how they got there, the icefree corridors were supposed not to be open yet that early after LGM.

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    Posth 2018
    Lapa do Santo, Brasil 9.6 ka, Y-DNA C2b, mtDNA C1d1
    CP19 9850 Brazil_LapaDoSanto_9600BP_related Brazil Lapa do Santo Brazil -19,4771833 -44,0380556 M C1d1 C2b 482320

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The Scandinavian branch was estimated to have split from the main Amerindian branch (M3) 15 kya by Yfull and 17 kya by this paper...It's just that this branch went back west from Bering and crossed all Siberia until Scandinavia. .
    It's much more likely this branch came to Europe from Greenland and not Siberia. So far all samples in YFull are from Iceland, Scandinavia and the British Isles. No sample from Eastern Europe.

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    deleted. wrong posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    It's much more likely this branch came to Europe from Greenland and not Siberia. So far all samples in YFull are from Iceland, Scandinavia and the British Isles. No sample from Eastern Europe.
    Are any of the Scandinavian samples older than the 10th century?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarl View Post
    Are any of the Scandinavian samples older than the 10th century?
    No Q-L804 aDNA in the Yfull tree. All samples from living people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    It's much more likely this branch came to Europe from Greenland and not Siberia. So far all samples in YFull are from Iceland, Scandinavia and the British Isles. No sample from Eastern Europe.
    Are you saying that some population moved from Greenland to Europe carrying Q1A? What a bizarre thing to put forward if so.

    As for the post about aDNA not being on YFull, that is false. They have added older samples if they pass quality standards. SZ45 from the Lombard study in Hungary made it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I1a3_Young View Post
    Are you saying that some population moved from Greenland to Europe carrying Q1A? What a bizarre thing to put forward if so.

    As for the post about aDNA not being on YFull, that is false. They have added older samples if they pass quality standards. SZ45 from the Lombard study in Hungary made it.

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    Context. We were discussing branch Q-L804 only.

    There is no aDNA for this branch on Yfull.

    Yes, I am saying there may have possibly been population movement from Greenland to Europe -- the distribution of Q-L804 points to that possibility.

    So far no Q-L804 has been reported from Eastern Europe or Sibera. Majority of Q-L804 are from Iceland, Scandinavia and British Isles. Rarely from continental Europe.

    That's as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong about the distribution.

    Sibling clade Q-M3 is entirely Native American.

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    I do remember there was some Native American DNA got into the Icelandic gene pool. C1, most likly entered around the year 1000. So it is not that far-fetched. I don't think it'd be much of a population movement though, more likely one or a couple of individuals that got into the genepool.

    Interestingly, the C1 in Iceland turned out to be C1e -a new variant and not one of the Native American ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    7500 years is not fast. They were hunter gathers, so any extra child would put pressure on their food security. To release that pressure they needed to move to new territories. American Indians are known for Geronticide, which meant they killed their elders to preserve food. It was practiced by Inuit's until lately. Infanticide was used by African hunter gathers.
    There is ZERO evidence for “Geronticide” I’m the Americas. Elders were always the source of knowledge and traditions, you dimply do not kill knowledge bearers. There are in grave sites evidence of elders over 65+ years, along with people with spinal bifida that lived as long as their teenage years! You have watched too many Hollywood Western movies. Native Americans are known to revere their ancestors, which the same cannot be said for Europeans and theirs!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alulkoy View Post
    There is ZERO evidence for “Geronticide” I’m the Americas. Elders were always the source of knowledge and traditions, you dimply do not kill knowledge bearers. There are in grave sites evidence of elders over 65+ years, along with people with spinal bifida that lived as long as their teenage years! You have watched too many Hollywood Western movies. Native Americans are known to revere their ancestors, which the same cannot be said for Europeans and theirs!
    The more people mix with different ethnicities , the more one looses their traditions and ancestral heritage .................the price society pays for "globalisation"
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    Regarding the migration of Y chromosome Q -L804 from Greenland to Northern European Atlantic: During the little ice age of the Middle Ages, the Vikings left Greenland, while the Inuit progressed and were even observed paddling on the northern shores of the British Isles. Due to the civilizational setback caused by the Black Death at this time, the Inuit may have practiced the Arctic Maritime Nomadism supported in the remote islands of the North Atlantic archipelagos, especially during the Arctic winter, and retreated back to Greenland when the Norse returned to the North Atlantic in the end of the little ice age, without had being registered their interaction with the depressed local populations . Alias it is at the same time that Gypsy nomadism enters Europe benefiting from the same civilization setback. A fact that also indicates in the same sense is that although the Y chromosomes of the last siberia hunter gatherer people, the Kets, are incredibly 99.7% Q-L54 they do not have any of the Native American Q-L54 (Q-M3, CTS1780) or European Q-L54 (Q -L804) these two being a branch apart from the Kets branch. Don't Native Americans practice gerontocide? When the survival of the group until next spring is in danger, don't they canibalize the individuals that are out of the reproductive age? Human coprolites from 9Kya south america have parasites that only survive in conditions of high humidity and heat (Ancylostoma duodenale, Trichuris trichiura and Strongyloides stercoralis). Someone entered the Americas at that time, or before, without the Beringia standstill, a cold and dry place incompatible with these parasites, according to MONTENEGRO, Alvaro; ARAUJO, Adauto; EBY, Michael;FERREIRA, Luiz Fernando; HETHERINGTON, Renee; WEAVER,Andrew J. Parasites, paleoclimate and the peopling of the Americas:using the hookworm to time the Clovis migration. CurrentAnthropology, Chicago, v. 47, no. 1, p. 193-198, Feb. 2006. DOI:https://doi.org/10.1086/499553

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