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Thread: Brain scans show social exclusion creates jihadists

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In many "Muslim" countries it is against the law to "proselytize" for non-Muslim religions. Indeed, in Bangladesh, for example, there have been a few killings of people "suspected" of being Atheists.

    No one doubts any of this.

    The fact remains that when Muslims relocate to the west and are in environments where they have opportunity and are not excluded from the broader society they are more likely to integrate and to disavow such practices. I think we can draw a comparison between the U.S. and Europe, for example. I'm not saying ALL Muslims in the U.S. renounce this kind of ideology, but more of them do than in Europe, and the situation is worse in some European countries than in others.

    I really don't understand how you can fail to see that it is a two way street.
    what do I fail to see?

    yes it is a two way street
    that is why I specifically mention the group who choses to stay in their ghetto for generations

    and certain mayors around Bruxelles have encouraged and stimulated this behaviour for decades, it became their voting public
    on new years evening in Molenbeek their were riots and plundering and arsening
    the mayor said 'it was their way of the youngsters to feast'
    she simply accepts this behaviour, she says 'she wouldn't do so herself' but she won't condemn any of them, she says it is common practice

    https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190108_04087112

    this is not a case of exclusion, it is their own choice to exclude themselves

    the situation is not because of decades of exclusion, it is because of decades of laissez-faire
    by pervert politicians who succeed to be reelected as mayor of this community for decades

    the present mayor is the daughter of Philip Moureau, who was mayor for decades
    it stinks over there

    do you think this is possible in the US?

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    FYI : Philippe Moreaux

    Minister

    His first government post was a Minister of the Interior and Institutional Reform in the government of Wilfried Martens (Martens III) in 1980. Moureaux's name was attached to the loi contre le racisme et la xénophobie (Law against Racism and Xenophobia) of 30 July 1981 as he was then serving as Minister of Justice.

    Resigning from the Federal Government in 1993, Moureaux's coalition defeated the incumbent mayor of Molenbeek Léon Spiegels [fr] at the 1994 council elections. A key part of Moureaux's campaign, then and since, was the involvement of ethnic minorities in the campaign, Mariem Bouselmati [fr] of Ecolo being the first Belgian of Moroccan origin elected in Molenbeek. In 2004, as a senator, Moureaux submitted the law granting the right of foreigners to vote in municipal elections.

    However, Moureaux's attempts at revitalizing the municipality were not successful. An example was the withdrawal of BBDO in June 2011 from the town. In an open letter addressed to Moureaux, ten employees of this American advertising agency cited over 150 attacks on their staff by locals as principal reason for their departure.[2] As a result, serious questions have been raised about governance, security, and the administration of Mayor Moureaux.[3]

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    the problem is that these mayors did their very best to make these people feel as if they hadn't relocated to the west,
    as if they could still live their own customs and stay amongst each other as if they still lived in their home countries
    (except the benefits of Belgian social security)

    it is quite the opposit of social exclusion


    in the US this would not be possible because you can't live on welfare for generations

  4. #29
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    the problem is that these mayors did their very best to make these people feel as if they hadn't relocated to the west,
    as if they could still live their own customs and stay amongst each other as if they still lived in their home countries
    (except the benefits of Belgian social security)
    it is quite the opposit of social exclusion
    in the US this would not be possible because you can't live on welfare for generations
    I don't know why you have that impression. It is indeed possible, although there are periodic attempts to institute work rules. If my memory serves, people on public assistance form a much bigger percentage of the population in the U.S. than in many countries in Europe.

    We also have the situation where rioting is permitted to continue out of fear that police intervention will make things worse. The media run with questionable stories blaming white people or police of any ethnicity, stories which are later proven to be untrue in most if not all cases, but by then the stories have become "urban legend", and the media make no concerted effort to give the "true" story as much "play" time.

    The difference is that the ghettos here are predominantly African-American or Hispanic, although I just read about an area in Michigan which is predominantly Somali which has incredible homicide rates because of Somali gang violence.

    So, we have ghettos too, both "native" and created by recent immigrants. And yes, many of the problems of the people in those areas are in the nature of self-inflicted wounds. That doesn't mean that the surrounding, larger society is blameless. There is still racism in the U.S. even if it's much better than it used to be. Many, many African Americans and Hispanics have and are moving into the middle class even if they are still segregated to some degree, but there are still the members of the underclass who are unable to rise out of their situation, because of lack of opportunity and skills as well as other things.

    In terms of immigrants, it's just incontrovertible, imo, that they are more accepted and more easily integrated in the U.S. than in Europe, particularly if they are not African immigrants. I'm being honest here. It's sad but true that a Middle Eastern immigrant has an easier time here than an African immigrant or African American native.

    Yes, many recent immigrants tend to go live near compatriots. That was true for the Germans, Irish, Italians and Jews as well. By the second and third generation they seem to start moving "out", which was also true for the "white" immigrants. However, a Syrian immigrant, for example, doesn't have a hard time getting housing in a non-ghetto area and when they do so they are largely accepted by the surrounding community. Their children become Americanized and accepted pretty quickly. It's even more true for Christian Middle Easterners who are quickly accepted into Catholic churches, and helped by them as well.

    For many reasons, it's just not as easy to integrate in Europe, and that's true not only for migrants from the Middle East and North Africa but for migrants from one European country to another. I'll leave it at that because I don't want to get personal about it.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    10% of the medical doctors in France are of foreign origin. 34% of them are from predominantly Muslim countries (Algeria, Syria, Morocco). They are all perfectly integrated, even though they are paid considerably less than their French counterparts. They keep their religious beliefs private, and have dinner with their French peers.

    What I mean is: as bicicleur points out, the psychological stance makes all the difference.
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

  6. #31
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    Angela,

    I was not questioning whether immigrants integrate more smoothly in the US or Europe,
    I was questioning whether Jihadys radicalise because of social exclusion or whether they come from groups who exclude themselves.

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