Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: Cuban autosomal genetics and pigmentation

  1. #1
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    212,623
    Level
    100
    Points: 212,623, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Cuban autosomal genetics and pigmentation

    It's beyond me why they would still be using AIMS. The results largely comport with those from more professional studies of Latin America as a whole, but for more precise data I'd go to those studies.

    See:

    "Cuba: Exploring the History of Admixture and the Genetic Basis of Pigmentation Using Autosomal and Uniparental Markers"

    It should be noted that these samples are from Cuba itself. One third of the population emigrated, and the majority of those people, other than the ones sent over by Castro, were the "white" Cubans. I've seen quite a few of their results, and many of them have less than 5-7% "minority" ancestry. Even that surprised them, having been assured that they were of 100% European ancestry. The presence of Amerindian ancestry was a particular shock, as all the history books stated that they had been wiped out. Also interestingly enough, some of them did notice that some of the phenotypes from the eastern part of the island were a bit exotic. "

    "We carried out an admixture analysis of a sample comprising 1,019 individuals from all the provinces of Cuba. We used a panel of 128 autosomal Ancestry Informative Markers (AIMs) to estimate the admixture proportions. We also characterized a number of haplogroup diagnostic markers in the mtDNA and Y-chromosome in order to evaluate admixture using uniparental markers. Finally, we analyzed the association of 16 single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) with quantitative estimates of skin pigmentation. In the total sample, the average European, African and Native American contributions as estimated from autosomal AIMs were 72%, 20% and 8%, respectively. The Eastern provinces of Cuba showed relatively higher African and Native American contributions than the Western provinces. In particular, the highest proportion of African ancestry was observed in the provinces of Guantánamo (40%) and Santiago de Cuba (39%), and the highest proportion of Native American ancestry in Granma (15%), Holguín (12%) and Las Tunas (12%). We found evidence of substantial population stratification in the current Cuban population, emphasizing the need to control for the effects of population stratification in association studies including individuals from Cuba. The results of the analyses of uniparental markers were concordant with those observed in the autosomes. These geographic patterns in admixture proportions are fully consistent with historical and archaeological information. Additionally, we identified a sex-biased pattern in the process of gene flow, with a substantially higher European contribution from the paternal side, and higher Native American and African contributions from the maternal side. This sex-biased contribution was particularly evident for Native American ancestry. Finally, we observed that SNPs located in the genes SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 are strongly associated with melanin levels in the sample."

    I never saw any minority ancestry in someone like Desi Arnaz or Oscar Hijueilos whatsoever. In Marco Rubio maybe a hint of Amerindian?


    He looks so Spanish to me here:




    I do see it in Ted Cruz' father: something across the eyes.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Attachment 10616
    Vicente Parra

    Yes they are very Spanish, the first one has reminded me a lot of the Spanish actor Vicente Parra. The second fails me something else, I see something black in it, the teeth do not fit me so much with Spain, the glasses can be anywhere, and the baby also Spanish but with a "Filipino" touch. For me it is much easier to detect the differences because I am Spanish. I have seen many Cubans and Cubans one hundred percent Spanish in appearance, usually they are descendants of the communists who left Spain during the war or after or even before the war, 20 or 30 years, but even so I do not know if the latitude, altitude and other factors can cause some changes to occur because I notice them differently as if there had been a different co-occurrence in the chance of the genes.

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    212,623
    Level
    100
    Points: 212,623, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The first two are of Desi Arnaz and I think he looks very Spanish. The third is Oscar Hijuelos, who I think looks even more northern. This is him younger.


    I'm a great admirer of his novels.


    These "white" Cubans are mostly the most fervent of anti-Communists who fled from Castro when they were stripped of all their possessions. The ones of that generation, but also many of their children, are a consistent and passionate Republican voting block.

    The last one is the father of one of our Presidential candidates in 2016, and I also see something "off" about him. It has been said of him that he was one of the few pro-Communist Cuban immigrants.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Óscar Hijuelo perhaps reminded me of the Spanish journalist Pepe Navarro in his essence.

    Attachment 10617

    The father of Ted Cruz for me no doubt has a Native American factor.

    I usually notice a slight difference, although they almost look like Spanish there is a final finish something like a cappuccino, a soft foam on top, another final finish, Óscar Hijuelos would not have it for example, but the other two actors have it, it would be a single coffee without sugar and two cappuccinos.

  5. #5
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    212,623
    Level
    100
    Points: 212,623, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    ^^

    Three more famous ones with whom you might not be familiar:

    Gloria Estefan:



    Marco Rubio:


    Andy Garcia:

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Gloria Estefan and Andy García knew them, the middle one did not. Gloria Estefan has relatives in Asturias, usually visiting the small town of one of her ancestors. Andy Garcia has never interested me too much as an actor; although he is a good actor. All three have a finish or an indigenous essence that I do not recognize. I do not recognize their looks as Spaniards, I feel bad, but that's the way it is. There may also be other factors such as attitude, look, things that still transmit without speaking and that they acquire by living in a different culture that is also perceived. I did not even remember a teacher of Latin English, I came from New York and her attitude was very different, her look at the Latinos I see now in Spain who come directly from their South American countries. Right now I do not remember any Latino celebrity that was not of two Spanish parents.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Marco Rubio had not seen him in my life, he seems like a good guy, but I get the feeling that he can not be himself, he lives very corseted, poor. Now I will look for him to see who he is.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    He supposed it, I think he's a pretty cruel person and if they let him get there he could be a monster. It is not clean wheat, it is enough because it is what suits you. A lie.

  9. #9
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    212,623
    Level
    100
    Points: 212,623, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    He supposed it, I think he's a pretty cruel person and if they let him get there he could be a monster. It is not clean wheat, it is enough because it is what suits you. A lie.

    He* IS a good guy. You shouldn't assume that someone whose politics are different than yours is necessarily a bad person.

    I know a lot of good people who are far left progressives. I ignore their stupid political opinions. :)

    *Ed. Marco Rubio
    Last edited by Angela; 09-01-19 at 02:58.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    My assessment of what I perceive is not influenced by the political inclinations of the character in the photo. In that photo, what I perceive is that the process of dehumanization had begun, it is possible that now it is not human, it is what I see and that is what I tell it, and it also has a lot to hide.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Created Album picturesVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Eochaidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    28-01-10
    Posts
    92
    Points
    7,866
    Level
    26
    Points: 7,866, Level: 26
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 284
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-M222>A725>S676
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4a1a4b

    Ethnic group
    Insular Celtic
    Country: USA - Pennsylvania



    I was at the University of Miami in the 1970's when many of the early waves from Cuba had recently arrived. The cafeteria that I used was mostly staffed by Cuban women. Several of these women had red hair and green eyes. Many had fair skin and freckles and could easily be thought of as Irish until they spoke. One of my brothers married such a fair haired fair skin Cuban woman. I had learned of the Celtiberos from Spain in Spanish class in High School, so I wasn't entirely surprised, but I still remember those faces.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Spanish immigration to Cuba began in 1492, continued in 1898 and continued until today. The first sighting of a Spanish ship was the approach to the island on 27 or 28 October 1492, probably in Bariay on the eastern end of the island. Christopher Columbus, on his first trip to America, sailed south from what is now the Bahamas to explore the northeast coast of Cuba and the north coast of La española.

    Some 446,000 descendants of Spaniards have applied for citizenship
    Most of the petitions covered by the Law of Historical Memory come from Cuba and Argentina

    When Spaniards want to minimize some fact in which we are involved or alleviate that of a third party, we usually say the phrase: More was lost in Cuba (Más se perdió en Cuba)

  13. #13
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Those Cuban women from the bar could have been something like Blanca and Susana Estrada these two Asturian sisters. It is not that all Spanish women are like that but we also have them.

    Attachment 10620
    Susana Estrada

    Attachment 10621
    Blanca Estrada

    They were queens of the nude in Spain. (I found it hard to find them dressed)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered
    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-03-18
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223)(L801)

    Country: Albania



    I met once a Venezuelan woman who was divorced from a Hungarian husband. She traced her roots back in Spain, but had no memory or knowledge of relatives in Spain. She had particularly good looks and was approached by many people of different races, many of them rich. The last one I remember was a reasonably rich Asian. There was no way she could accept if the person was no European. No money or richness could corrupt her! I brought this example to suggest that such way of thinking could be in pockets of Cuba, and being Cuban does not necessary mean one is mixed. I don't see Marco as mixed. The senator from New Jersey is obviously mixed.

  15. #15
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    212,623
    Level
    100
    Points: 212,623, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    The number of Cubans without any trace of "minority" ancestry is pretty small, and limited to descendants of very recent migrants. The percentages for the minority "white" Cubans can be very small, however, in the range of a percent or two to about 10 percent.

    It's the same situation which is present in Afrikaners.



    That minority ancestry has been a shock to a lot of them.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    [CITA = Tutkun Arnaut; 563322] Conocí a una mujer venezolana que estaba divorciada de un marido húngaro. Ella trazó sus raíces en España, pero no tenía memoria ni conocimiento de los familiares en España. Tenía una apariencia particularmente buena y fue abordada por muchas personas de diferentes razas, muchas de ellas ricas. El último que recuerdo fue un asiático bastante rico. No había forma de que ella pudiera aceptar si la persona no era europea. ¡Ningún dinero o riqueza podría corromperla! Traje este ejemplo para sugerir que tal forma de pensar podría estar en los bolsillos de Cuba, y ser cubano no significa necesariamente que uno esté mezclado. No veo a Marco tan mezclado. El senador de Nueva Jersey obviamente está mezclado. [/ QUOTE]

    That does not seem to say that being mixed is incriminating nothing further from it, can be something fabulous. Sincerely Marco Rubio for me and is a subjective opinion is mixed with black and Indian; although the final finish may seem more white, even Nordic.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    29-05-17
    Posts
    60
    Points
    1,551
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,551, Level: 11
    Level completed: 1%, Points required for next Level: 299
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The number of Cubans without any trace of "minority" ancestry is pretty small, and limited to descendants of very recent migrants. The percentages for the minority "white" Cubans can be very small, however, in the range of a percent or two to about 10 percent.

    It's the same situation which is present in Afrikaners.



    That minority ancestry has been a shock to a lot of them.
    Because minorities have Spanish names and surnames and thus are not identificiable from this perspective. They just are in shade.

    But any people from multicultural/ethnic area for centuries shouldn't be shocked or suprised about admixture.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    They are young countries so the assimilation of something like this is very different from how it is assimilated by someone from the old world. For us, the mixture makes us proud to take us back to mythical, legendary or historical times so that we integrate it well because that origin can be millenarian newly discovered but it is evocative and it is possible that in such a young country to believe itself white and that suddenly a Indigenous or black origin is too close to them in time, and not enough time has passed to have integrated it and to see it as part of one in a legendary, legendary way. If a European obtains a mixture with a black African from a few thousand years ago, it is not painful for him as it could have been, but in America with fresh information and in a short historical time the sensation must be different and full of prejudices.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    For example, no modern Spanish speaks badly of the Romans (ancient) no one speaks of genocide, invasion, plunder, slavery accusing modern Romans of Imperial Rome and yet there are many heads of plovers that accuse modern Spanish all those things because the story is too recent, which by the way I take to say that for Hollywood the Vikings were beautiful, muscular and postmodern and went for a walk and show off and the Spaniards to loot, steal, rape and kill Indians. That is why I think that some exotic results in America for someone who believed to be one thing and get a different one can be more complicated than for a European or other places in the world.

    You also spend in the films about the Imbencible Armada, when Queen Elizabeth I, the English appear with a postmodern image and the Spaniards come out with a grotesque characterization, a large nose with a wart on the tip or a disheveled lock on the face, you see suddenly postmodern people (English of the time) and (Spaniards of the time) characterized grotesquely, you twist in the chair, what happens?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    12-12-16
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    272
    Points
    2,284
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,284, Level: 13
    Level completed: 45%, Points required for next Level: 166
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b U-152
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c8

    Ethnic group
    Italian, Jewish, British
    Country: USA - Massachusetts



    What is the Black supposed to represent, Mediterranean ancestry? Why would they be more Med than Spanish and Italians?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,261
    Points
    10,611
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,611, Level: 31
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 639
    Overall activity: 92.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    [QUOTE = New Englander; 563517] ¿Qué se supone que representa el negro, la ascendencia mediterránea? ¿Por qué serían más medianos que españoles e italianos? [/ QUOTE]

    For a white South American, a black result in his DNA imagines that it represents an origin in slavery. For a European, as I would say, for a legendary and legendary warrior who made an expedition through the Kingdom of Tartessos or a legionary of the troops of the Roman Empire, there are many more centuries to fantasize than those available to a white Cuban who only has the option of slavery as a possibility. But the problem is yours because of prejudice.

  22. #22
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends10000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,474
    Points
    20,131
    Level
    43
    Points: 20,131, Level: 43
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 619
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The number of Cubans without any trace of "minority" ancestry is pretty small, and limited to descendants of very recent migrants. The percentages for the minority "white" Cubans can be very small, however, in the range of a percent or two to about 10 percent.

    It's the same situation which is present in Afrikaners.



    That minority ancestry has been a shock to a lot of them.
    Maybe it's just my impression, but from the admixture charts above Cubans look much less of a "melting pot" than Colombia, Puerto Rico and Mexico, with a much clearer division between European-majority and African-majority individuals. The admixture proportions look much more evenly distributed in those other nations, with very few almost completely European or almost completely African/Amerindian individuals (at least in this sample of individuals).

    Btw, is this for real: that minority ancestry has been a shock to a lot of them? Wow then the idea of mestizaje or, in Brazilian jargon, miscigenação really stuck among white Cuban much less than for other Latin Americans. I think many Brazilians were in fact surprised to find that they are less admixed with other races than they thought, not the other way around. I think an average Brazilian white would hardly be "shocked" to know that (s)he has some African and Amerindian ancestry. It's pretty much "general knowledge". Perhaps that could happen in some small towns in the South of the country, but not elsewhere.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered
    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-03-18
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223)(L801)

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    [CITA = Tutkun Arnaut; 563322] Conocí a una mujer venezolana que estaba divorciada de un marido húngaro. Ella trazó sus raíces en España, pero no tenía memoria ni conocimiento de los familiares en España. Tenía una apariencia particularmente buena y fue abordada por muchas personas de diferentes razas, muchas de ellas ricas. El último que recuerdo fue un asiático bastante rico. No había forma de que ella pudiera aceptar si la persona no era europea. ¡Ningún dinero o riqueza podría corromperla! Traje este ejemplo para sugerir que tal forma de pensar podría estar en los bolsillos de Cuba, y ser cubano no significa necesariamente que uno esté mezclado. No veo a Marco tan mezclado. El senador de Nueva Jersey obviamente está mezclado. [/ QUOTE]

    That does not seem to say that being mixed is incriminating nothing further from it, can be something fabulous. Sincerely Marco Rubio for me and is a subjective opinion is mixed with black and Indian; although the final finish may seem more white, even Nordic.
    I don't know if being mixed is better or worse! But certainly ,since there is a lot of talk about being mixed, there is concern about it, among people. In 1920 there were about 30 books opposing Einstein's view of relativity theory. Einstein famously said if I was wrong 1 book would have been enough. So, my point is if there were not questions about the benefits of being mixed, no one would have been talkin who is mixed and who is not.

  24. #24
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends10000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,474
    Points
    20,131
    Level
    43
    Points: 20,131, Level: 43
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 619
    Overall activity: 29.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    They are young countries so the assimilation of something like this is very different from how it is assimilated by someone from the old world. For us, the mixture makes us proud to take us back to mythical, legendary or historical times so that we integrate it well because that origin can be millenarian newly discovered but it is evocative and it is possible that in such a young country to believe itself white and that suddenly a Indigenous or black origin is too close to them in time, and not enough time has passed to have integrated it and to see it as part of one in a legendary, legendary way. If a European obtains a mixture with a black African from a few thousand years ago, it is not painful for him as it could have been, but in America with fresh information and in a short historical time the sensation must be different and full of prejudices.
    Actually in my "vast" experience online my impression has always been that New World and particulatly Latin American people deal with the fact they have mixed ancestry much better than Old World people, who are much more strongly attached to their ethnic/national myths as primeval and homogeneous ethnicities or races. They are only unbothered by mixed results when those mixes are from relatively close populations, not totally different races, and when those population structures are long gone and nowhere to be seen. In my experience being mixed is much more acceptable to most Latin Americans than to Europeans, Asians and Africans, who often seem to think that they're less of a part of their respective ethnicity or nation because they have even a minor proportion of alien ancestry. For obvious historic reasons Old World people tend to believe more in the idea that their people has been there in the same land and more or less precisely as they are nowadays since bygone eras.

  25. #25
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    212,623
    Level
    100
    Points: 212,623, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Maybe it's just my impression, but from the admixture charts above Cubans look much less of a "melting pot" than Colombia, Puerto Rico and Mexico, with a much clearer division between European-majority and African-majority individuals. The admixture proportions look much more evenly distributed in those other nations, with very few almost completely European or almost completely African/Amerindian individuals (at least in this sample of individuals).

    Btw, is this for real: that minority ancestry has been a shock to a lot of them? Wow then the idea of mestizaje or, in Brazilian jargon, miscigenação really stuck among white Cuban much less than for other Latin Americans. I think many Brazilians were in fact surprised to find that they are less admixed with other races than they thought, not the other way around. I think an average Brazilian white would hardly be "shocked" to know that (s)he has some African and Amerindian ancestry. It's pretty much "general knowledge". Perhaps that could happen in some small towns in the South of the country, but not elsewhere.
    I obviously haven't taken a survey. I can only go by the four Cuban Americans (and their families) with whom I'm acquainted. (One is a woman married to one of my many second cousins. They live in Miami...well, Coral Gables, actually )

    You're right in that according to them Cuba was very stratified by color/ancestry. From what they had been told the Indian aborigines had been wiped out and their genes were not passed on. Likewise, they were told that while there may have been men who had "alliances" with black women, the children of those unions became part the "mulatto" population.

    So far as they knew and had been told, they were "white" or "pure" European. Discovering that some of them carried Indian and/or SSA mtDna's was indeed a shock. I heard stories of families of their acquaintance about whom there were rumors of a black or mulatto family member, and how the families would move to the bigger cities where people didn't know them and the ancestry could be hidden. I think they probably therefore assumed that if there was such ancestry in their own families it would be known.

    What I surmise is that in those situations the admixture was recent. The admixture which showed up in these "exotic" mtDnas or the 2-7% minority autosomal ancestry which showed up in these white Cubans must have been old admixture, from the first days of the colonization. The one family I know with lots of recent ancestry from Spain and Italy to Cuba had European mtDna and yDna and only about 1.5% minority ancestry.

    I think this is analogous to the situation in South Africa, where the old admixture was either forgotten or deliberately hidden.

    One thing that has to be kept in mind is that this chart shows the admixture percentages of people who remained in Cuba. In my experience, most of the Cubans who came to the U.S. have very little minority ancestry. (That ancestry is, by way of contrast, high and visible in the Cubans who were prisoners expelled by Castro and dumped on the U.S.) Were they included in this chart the percentage of only very slightly admixed Cubans would be higher.

    As to why Cuba would have been so stratified compared to other countries in Latin America I don't know, but it piques my curiosity. I'll see if my friends have any insights.

    @Carlos,
    I'm glad to hear that a lot of Spaniards are sanguine about any possible SSA or Moorish ancestry in them. However, that's clearly not the case with all Iberians. I think I remember you taking part in discussions with the whole very vehement group of Spaniards who used to frequent this site who were adamant to the point of mania that there was no such admixture in Spaniards. I got "virtually" screamed at and insulted so often when I tried to inject a little sanity into the discussions that I remember it all quite vividly. :)

    Of course, I never believed all Iberians were Stormfront racists, and sincerely hoped and hope that the ravings of a few Italians on these kinds of sites aren't held against all of us.

    As for the U.S. Americans of colonial background do occasionally have stories of an Indian ancestor and are extremely attached to the idea. A lot of the complaints about genetic testing have to do with the fact that it's so seldom found, and when it is it's in the range which Elizabeth Warren has, which is not very much at all. Also, there's the phenomenon that the minority ancestry which is found is a couple of percent of SSA. What happened is that admixed people explained away their "dark" looks by saying there was an Indian in the family: that's how the stories started. The Melungeons of Virginia and North Carolina still insist they have Indian or Portuguese or Jewish ancestry, when Melungeon descendants who have been test clearly show a few percent of SSA ancestry, and no Amerindian at all. Interestingly, they only possess European mtdna, but the occasional SSA yDna shows up. Apparently, the community was formed in the late 1600s by British women indentured servants and African men at the early time when such unions were not yet outlawed, and African males were also just indentured servants. Again, interestingly, some people romanticize the Melungeons and want to be related to them even when it's clear they're not. I've never seen that kind of romanticization about Indian ancestry out west in areas with a lot of Indian reservations. It's not so "romantic" close up.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •