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Thread: Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

  1. #2976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olti27 View Post
    There seems to be two of them, Amantes in Amantia a polis reported to have been located between Apollonia and Orikos, and Amantini in northen Illyria.
    Anyhow I would stay away from the likes of Elena Kocaqi.
    Në librin e tij "Epirus", Hammond përdor të njëjtën taktikë për të thënë se fiset Epirote ishin fise Greke, megjithëse shumë prej tyre janë permendur thjesht si "Ilirë" nga historianët Romakë apo Grekë. Për shembull, Hammond pretendon se ka patur dy fise të quajtur Amant, një Ilir dhe një "Grek", dy fise të quajtur Perrhaib, një Ilir dhe një Grek, dy fise të quajtur Dassaret, një Ilir dhe një Grek. Këtë ai e bën për arsye se historianët Romakë i kan quajtur të gjitha këto fise si "Ilire", ndërsa Hammond pretendon se ishin "helenizuar". Dhe menyra me e lehte per ti "Greqezuar" këto fise, është të thuash se Romakët po flisnin për fise të tjera që kishin të njëtin emër.

    Kuptohet thjesht se kjo është një taktikë e dobët dhe e pa drejtë. Është e pa drejtë sepse është e pamundur që historianët Romakë të përmendin një fis si Dassaretët, në prapavijë të Apollonisë, si fis Ilir, kur sipas Hammondit në të njëjtën zonë, ka patur dhe nje fis tjetër me të njejtin emër por që ishte fis "Grek". Ata ishin ose Ilir, ose Grek, po nuk ishin dy fise te vecanta. Dhe te gjithe historianet e antikitetit, i permendin ata, bashkë me Amantët, Perrhaibët, etj, thjesht si fise Ilire dhe KURRË si fise Greke. Perrhaibët bile s'ishin as fis Epirot, por ishin një fis që gjendeshin përtej Epirit në Thesali, pra në thellësi të Greqisë. Dhe ishin pikerisht Romakët, në shekujt e erës sonë, që i përmendin jo vetëm si fis Ilir, por si një nga fiset Ilire të rrejdhur direkt nga "Iliri", krijuesi i etnosit Ilir.

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    Which of these Epirote tribes are non Greek

    Amantes
    Athamanians
    Atintanians
    Bryges
    Cassopaei
    Chaonians
    Suliones
    Dexaroi

    Omphales
    Parauaea
    Selloi
    Talares
    Thesprotians
    Tymphaeans

    The Bold red are clearly non-Greek ..............I do not have much on the other tribes on their origins
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    the Taulantii and the Eel people , both went to modern Albania from the area of Budva Montenegro ................was Glaucias still around when Pyrrhus formed his empire ?

    Dardania was still in existence.

    Teuta strongholds and her rebellion was in modern Montenegro .

    The Romans noted zero Illyrians in modern Albania from the time they took the Albania coast and inland from the Macedonians at the start of the 2nd Punic war

    Macedonia and Hannibal where allies

    As the romans secured Durres, Appolonia and Butrint from the macedonians at the time of the hannibal wars...................Philip V of Macedon had one last attempt to aid his ally Hannibal and so in 213BC he attacked and destroyed the Taulantii and eventually marched on and took Lissos ( Lehze ) from the Romans.......securing his only port on the adriatic sea...........stalemate occurred for the macedonians and romans and in 207BC a peace treaty was signed.
    This was broken when the Macedonains supplied Hannibal with 3000 infantry at the battle of Zama ( africa )

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    Torzio, go scr*w a dog or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Torzio, go scr*w a dog or something.
    ROFL
    don't know what you are upset about......just supplying historical fact

    your an afghan.....what do you know !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    ROFL
    don't know what you are upset about......just supplying historical fact

    your an afghan.....what do you know !!!
    Historical facts state there were Illyrians in modern Albania.

    But thanks for exposing yourself for what you are..
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Historical facts state there were Illyrians in modern Albania.
    But thanks for exposing yourself for what you are..
    what are you talking about......i asked him for more information


    omg ....you quote wiki ...........a site which can be changed weekly by anybody

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    Thanks to all of the evidence, the Thracian theory makes no sense at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excine View Post
    In any case, it is unnecessary to address E-V13 in such broad terms. We will determine the location of the Albanian clades. Most likely among Illyrians, like the Dardanians, but we'll see. I feel that southern Illyrians should also have E-V13 haplogroup, as it is just as Proto-Albanian as the other haplogroups found among Proto-Albanians, as per SA.
    Considering the high number of Proto-Illyrian/Illyrian samples we have the "theory" that E1b majorly spread with Illyrians or somehow was a major Illyrian haplogroup is totally debunked. No serious persona continues to claim such a thing except for the Maleschreiber/Bruzmi Wikipedia internet enthusiast. The phylogeny of the Albanian E1b clades does not support such a scenario either. You've made your repetitive "points", you can move on now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    Considering the high number of Proto-Illyrian/Illyrian samples we have the "theory" that E1b majorly spread with Illyrians or somehow was a major Illyrian haplogroup is totally debunked. No serious persona continues to claim such a thing except for the Maleschreiber/Bruzmi Wikipedia internet enthusiast. The phylogeny of the Albanian E1b clades does not support such a scenario either. You've made your repetitive "points", you can move on now.
    Dardania (Kosovo, S. Serbia, N. Macedonia), & Bosnia, which are Illyrian, haven't been tested yet, so the theory isn't "totally debunked". Both areas are near the Danube, near the Morava, Sava, and Drina rivers, which all lead into Albanian territory. Those regions need to be tested and then we'll see. We don't have enough samples of E-V13 in general either, once we get some samples from these regions which are close to today's Albania, we'll probably see some E-V13 clades that match with Albanians. Like how there was E-V13 in Croatia, maybe there will be in Bosnia or Dardania. If some Thracians joined the Illyrians in these areas, maybe they were buried in a mound instead of cremated, etc, there's many possibilities, the theory is still open until we get more samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    Dardania (Kosovo, S. Serbia, N. Macedonia), & Bosnia, which are Illyrian
    Careful with that sentence bro. These "Neo-Illyrians" don't even consider IA Albania to be Illyrian

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    ...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Thracian -para possibly related to Albanian. farë which is cognate with Greek. spore, the loss of the s in /sp/ was part of the transition to -> /f/ as in "fjalë", cognate with English. spell. /sp/ became /f/ in Albanian.

    Thracian -para could have therefore originally meant clan (seed to clan/tribe) and come to mean settlement.

    For example of this semantic transition, Albanian. vis (settlement, area) compared to cognate "Aryan Vissa" in Sanskrit (which means Aryan Clans).

    Bessapara (Besë+fara)
    Buiapara (Buaj + fara) (compare Bua tribe in Albanian)
    Dardapara (Dardhë + fara) (two such settlements)
    Brentopara (Brina + fara)
    Briparon (Bri + fara)
    Drusipara (Dru + fara)
    Busipara (Buzë + fara)

    -deva possibly related to an inflection of Albanian. dhe meaning settlement/village? Compare Atdheu (fatherland).

    Murideva (Mur + dheu)
    Burrideva (Burrë + dheu)
    Perburridava (Për + Burrë + dheu)

    Burri tribe cognate with Albanian. Burrë


    There is the Thracian and Dacian name Diegis connection to Albanian. Djeg
    There is the Thracian name Drenis connection to Albanian. Dren

    Dacian. Amalusta (camomile) Albanian. Ambël
    Dacian. Drubetis cognate with Albanian. Dru
    Dacian. Karpates cognate with Albanian. Karpë
    Dacian. Zermi-sirga cognate with Albanian. Zjerm
    Dacian. Mantua (mulberry) cognate with Albanian. man (mulberry)
    Dacian. Maluensis cognate with Albanian. Mal
    Dacian. Patavissa cognate with Albanin. vis
    Dacian. Polondova which later became Pelendova matches proto-Albanian. pol-na which became Albanian. pelë

    There is the Dacian god: Vet-sopios, Ouet-sopios, the first part is cognate with Albanian. vetë, translation of Greek. Auto+hyppos

    Wow, we don't have a single Thracian text and yet so many Albanian cognates appear among the Thracians and Dacians, this must mean that Albanian is Thracian.

    But actually, since Albanian shares the most exclusive words with Baltic only and no other IE language, this must actually mean that the Baltic language is Albanian.

    I hope my point has been made. Language descendance is not established by cognates, since Thracian also has cognates with Albanian, but by phonology.

    Matzinger himself openly makes comparisons between Illyrian and Albanian as is shown in the case of Dimale, Dallendyshe, etc, but he is still arguing that the phonological system of Albanian and Illyrian are of two different languages.

    Also, it is easy to cherry pick some names and torture a comparison with Albanian out of them, but there are countless Illyrian names which have no Albanian etymology:

    Skerdilaidas
    Clevatus
    Longarus
    Abozika
    Adana
    Birkenna
    Plator
    Koreta
    Etleva
    Ettuta
    Ettritos
    Glavus
    Grabos
    Grabon
    Langaros
    Laudos
    Lydra
    Madena
    Mallika
    Mannikos
    Monounios
    Pinnes
    Pleuratos
    Preurat/dos
    Skeneta
    Temus
    Titos
    Trauzos
    Trauzina
    Verzan
    Verzas
    Khortas
    Zaimina
    Zaimios



    If we compare the evolution of Albanian farë (seed) we see a stage where it is at "phara".

    If we imagine Thracian having a common ancestor that shared this path to a point, the semantic and phonetic transformation for the -para suffix might be possible

    PAlb. *sparā > *psarā >
    *pharā> farë
    Last edited by Johane Derite; 13-09-22 at 08:33.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Thracian -para possibly related to Albanian. farë which is cognate with Greek. spore, the loss of the s in /sp/ was part of the transition to -> /f/ as in "fjalë", cognate with English. spell. /sp/ became /f/ in Albanian.

    Thracian -para could have therefore originally meant clan (seed to clan/tribe) and come to mean settlement.

    For example of this semantic transition, Albanian. vis (settlement, area) compared to cognate "Aryan Vissa" in Sanskrit (which means Aryan Clans).

    Bessapara (Besë+fara)
    Buiapara (Buaj + fara) (compare Bua tribe in Albanian)
    Dardapara (Dardhë + fara) (two such settlements)
    Brentopara (Brina + fara)
    Briparon (Bri + fara)
    Drusipara (Dru + fara)
    Busipara (Buzë + fara)

    -deva possibly related to an inflection of Albanian. dhe meaning settlement/village? Compare Atdheu (fatherland).

    Murideva (Mur + dheu)
    Burrideva (Burrë + dheu)
    Perburridava (Për + Burrë + dheu)

    Burri tribe cognate with Albanian. Burrë


    There is the Thracian and Dacian name Diegis connection to Albanian. Djeg
    There is the Thracian name Drenis connection to Albanian. Dren

    Dacian. Amalusta (camomile) Albanian. Ambël
    Dacian. Drubetis cognate with Albanian. Dru
    Dacian. Karpates cognate with Albanian. Karpë
    Dacian. Zermi-sirga cognate with Albanian. Zjerm
    Dacian. Mantua (mulberry) cognate with Albanian. man (mulberry)
    Dacian. Maluensis cognate with Albanian. Mal
    Dacian. Patavissa cognate with Albanin. vis
    Dacian. Polondova which later became Pelendova matches proto-Albanian. pol-na which became Albanian. pelë

    There is the Dacian god: Vet-sopios, Ouet-sopios, the first part is cognate with Albanian. vetë, translation of Greek. Auto+hyppos

    Wow, we don't have a single Thracian text and yet so many Albanian cognates appear among the Thracians and Dacians, this must mean that Albanian is Thracian.

    But actually, since Albanian shares the most exclusive words with Baltic only and no other IE language, this must actually mean that the Baltic language is Albanian.

    I hope my point has been made. Language descendance is not established by cognates, since Thracian also has cognates with Albanian, but by phonology.

    Matzinger himself openly makes comparisons between Illyrian and Albanian as is shown in the case of Dimale, Dallendyshe, etc, but he is still arguing that the phonological system of Albanian and Illyrian are of two different languages.

    Also, it is easy to cherry pick some names and torture a comparison with Albanian out of them, but there are countless Illyrian names which have no Albanian etymology:

    Skerdilaidas
    Clevatus
    Longarus
    Abozika
    Adana
    Birkenna
    Plator
    Koreta
    Etleva
    Ettuta
    Ettritos
    Glavus
    Grabos
    Grabon
    Langaros
    Laudos
    Lydra
    Madena
    Mallika
    Mannikos
    Monounios
    Pinnes
    Pleuratos
    Preurat/dos
    Skeneta
    Temus
    Titos
    Trauzos
    Trauzina
    Verzan
    Verzas
    Khortas
    Zaimina
    Zaimios



    If we note some of the toponyms like " Selymbria, Poltymbria, Bolbabria, Alaabria, Mesambria,etc" then it is also possible that Galabrioi and Kalabria are actually related to this toponym, with the suffix -bria and prefix Kala-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    If we compare the evolution of Albanian farë (seed) we see a stage where it is at "phara".
    If we imagine Thracian having a common ancestor that shared this path to a point, the semantic and phonetic transformation for the -para suffix might be possible
    PAlb. *sparā > *psarā >
    *pharā> farë
    Nice try! -para in Thracian is the equivalent of -polis in Greek. Fara is the tribe, the clan. From what we know about Thracians they never had the close, endogamous clans of the Albanians. There was plenty of land to be had so they did not have to safeguard it so close.

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    Some Illyrian names might not have any known Albanian etymology but I personally do not see how -para -dava etc have Albanian etymology ... Bessapara means nothing in Albanian which was a Thracian placename called 'Fort of the Bessi' or something like 'Petersborough' .

    Also Bulgaria Iron Age is way more Southern shifted


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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    Considering the high number of Proto-Illyrian/Illyrian samples we have the "theory" that E1b majorly spread with Illyrians or somehow was a major Illyrian haplogroup is totally debunked. No serious persona continues to claim such a thing except for the Maleschreiber/Bruzmi Wikipedia internet enthusiast. The phylogeny of the Albanian E1b clades does not support such a scenario either. You've made your repetitive "points", you can move on now.
    Doesn't need to be a "major" Illyrian haplogroup. It just needs to exist there. RL51 was not a major Yamnaya group. J2B2-L283 was not either. Yet, they became the major group of many IE-heavy speaking people, and in a much shorter time frame (2k instead of 4k years).

    You seem to lack a fundamental grasp of how genetics work.

    Today, there are Albanian cities with almost 50% EV-13, and Albanian cities with almost 10% EV-13. Yet, autosomally they are clearly similar both in PCA and IBD. You demand a uniformity of % in Illyrians that doesn't even exist amongst modern Albanians. Y-DNA will fluctuate massively from village to village, clan to clan, region to region, yet the people can come from the same stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_ View Post
    Some Illyrian names might not have any known Albanian etymology but I personally do not see how -para -dava etc have Albanian etymology ... Bessapara means nothing in Albanian which was a Thracian placename called 'Fort of the Bessi' or something like 'Petersborough' .

    Also Bulgaria Iron Age is way more Southern shifted

    these personnel Illyrian names are found in noricum (east austria )



    since the Illyrians where replaced there by the celts between Halstatt phase 1 ( 1000BC ) and Halstatt phase 2 ( 780BC ).........then we can say these names migrated in a south ward direction

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Nice try! -para in Thracian is the equivalent of -polis in Greek. Fara is the tribe, the clan. From what we know about Thracians they never had the close, endogamous clans of the Albanians. There was plenty of land to be had so they did not have to safeguard it so close.
    The semantic transformation from tribe to settlement exists. Albanian. vis (settlement) [compare Dacian patavissa] and Arya Vissa from rigveda meaning "Aryan Clans".

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    First time I am hearing that ‘vis’ means settlement in Albanian. What sort of dialect uses Vis for a settlement? I see the entree in wiki but not heard such a term before. I know ‘Vise’ for example which translates into ‘region’.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    these personnel Illyrian names are found in noricum (east austria )

    since the Illyrians where replaced there by the celts between Halstatt phase 1 ( 1000BC ) and Halstatt phase 2 ( 780BC ).........then we can say these names migrated in a south ward direction

    Some of these names including the ones Johane Derite listed can actually be explained in Albanian but of course it would only be speculation such as the name 'Bindus' 'Binhdo' from Albanian ''Bindur' 'Bind' which means 'Convince / Convinced' .

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_ View Post
    Some of these names including the ones Johane Derite listed can actually be explained in Albanian but of course it would only be speculation such as the name 'Bindus' 'Binhdo' from Albanian ''Bindur' 'Bind' which means 'Convince / Convinced' .
    take Candala linked to Dalmatians .......from Candalicae Noricum

    Candalicae

    Place: possibly Micheldorf, Friesach, state Kärnten, Austria
    Name: Candalicae (It. Ant.)
    Etymology: Explained [Delamarre, p. 100] as a Celtic compound name 'the glowing stones' formed from the adjective *candos 'white', which is a cognate of the IE root *(s)kand- 'to glow, bright', and the name *lic(c)a 'stone', which is a cognate of the IE root *leu- 'stone'.

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    Noricum Ripense
    Aenus fl.

    Place: river Inn, state Oberösterreich, Austria
    Name: Aenus (Ptol., Tacit., It. Ant.)
    Etymology: To be compared with Aenona (Illyria). According to [Udolph], the stem *aen- is the A-language counterpart of the IE root *ein-, an extension of *ei- 'to go'.

    Albianum

    Place: not proveably Ebbs, state Tirol, Austria
    Name: Albianum (It. Ant.)
    Etymology: The formant seems to point to a placename derived from a personal name and actually [Delamarre, p. 44] posits a personal name Albianos.




    Noricum Mediterraneum
    Adrans

    Place: Trojane, Lukovica, Slovenia
    Name: Adrans (It. Ant., Peut.) Hadrans (Hier.) Atrans (inscr.)
    Etymology: Possibly related to Adrium m. (Illyria) and thus to Sanskrit adri 'stone', which reflects a long sonant nasal *ned-ri-, from the dubious IE root *end- 'stone'. More likely, a participial form reflecting the extension *ad-ro- of the IE root *ad(u)- 'water current'.


    Flavia Solva

    Place: Wagna, state Steiermark, Austria
    Name: Solva (Plin.)
    Etymology: Similarly to Solva (Pannonia) and Solentia (Illyria), the name could be derived from the IE root *suel- 'foot, sole, ground', with metathesis of -u-. However, both for [Anreiter] and [Delamarre, p. 240], it is rather related to a Celtic word *selwa- 'property', derived from the IE root *sel- 'to take, grab'.

  24. #2999
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I love how this Johanne clown stopped making up fake quotes from books, and now is pretending to be a linguist. There are rules to how comparative linguistics work. It has to be peer reviewed by other people.

    You can't just pull shit out of your ass based on similar sounding words.

    This clown is doing stuff like "Oh look there is a Thracian tribe called "Paitoi". That's related to Albanian "Pajtoj",when in reality a five second check will show that most of them are Latin borrowed words.

  25. #3000
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    The semantic transformation from tribe to settlement exists. Albanian. vis (settlement) [compare Dacian patavissa] and Arya Vissa from rigveda meaning "Aryan Clans".

    Are you that mentally ill that you're making up fake etymologies to back up your pathetic theories?

    That word is rendered in Proto-Albanian as "uitsi-a", and as a naming convention doesn't exist anywhere in Albanian.

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