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Thread: Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

  1. #3051
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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    There is a fundamental problem I have observed in repetitive slogans made by certain users on this and other fora in regards to Albanian or Balkan aDNA related threads:

    The statistics of the samples gathered in the Albanian DNA projects underneath are mostly in line with peer reviewed scientific papers in regards to the YDNA composition of the Albanian male population.

    83.9% (or 81.6%) of the total male Albanian population (general not specific to regions) does not belong to Y DNA J2b-L283 which via aDNA records has been shown to have been the main and defining Illyrian paternal line (map courtesy of Veseli): J2b-L283 ancient DNA

    Given the statistics it is also easy to conclude that this haplogroup in the bio of many Albanian accounts here is suspiciously over represented and that is statistically speaking impossible. The reason for this occurrence is quite simple: multiple spam/fake accounts.

    Albanian Y DNA (general not specific to regions) as per Rrenjet
    https://rrenjet.com/statistikat/:



    N E-V13 R-M269
    (R1b-Z2103 + R1b-PF7562)
    J2b-L283 I-Y3120 R-M417 I-M253 J-M410 J-M267 I-M223 G E-M123
    Albanians 1419 26.7% 19.9% 16.1% 7.2% 6.8% 5.2% 5.2% 2.7% 2.6% 1.3% 1.1%
    Gjenetika's http://www.gjenetika.com/statistikat/ statistics of the three most frequent paternal markers do not differ much from the above:



    N E-V13 R-M269
    (R1b-Z2103 + R1b-PF7562)
    J2b-L283
    Albanians 931 27.5% 20.1% 18.4%
    Note: R1b-Z2103 and R1b-PF7562 in both projects are grouped under the macro haplogroup designation R-M269.
    Besides L283 even Z2103>CTS9219 was also confirmed in Illyrian Iron Age context. So two of our major lines confirmed thus far among them, wether we like it or not. That also may very well have linguistic implications regardless what linguists say now days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Besides L283 even Z2103>CTS9219 was also confirmed in Illyrian Iron Age context. So two of our major lines confirmed thus far among them, wether we like it or not. That also may very well have linguistic implications regardless what linguists say now days.
    It's becoming a joke that some people are trying to cope so hard that now they're just posting modern frequencies of haplogroups as if anyone claimed that 100% of modern Albanian Y-DNA haplogroups come directly from Illyrians or as if that has anything to do with the Albanian autosomal profile whose closest is the Illyrian one. It's very hard for some people to understand that from J-L283 to I-Y3120, all Albanians have mostly ancestors from the ancient western Balkans. This ancient population is called "Illyrians".

    Close to 40% of Albanian lines have been found in just one site What other population in the Balkans can claim that at such an early date for the modern population? It's clear that R-Z2103+ and J-L283+ Albanian lines were part of the same Illyrian/P-Alb population and when get data from other Illyrian sites we'll see what else Illyrians carried. For reference, Gauls had 4-5 main lineages/haplogroups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    So Proto-Albanians are E-V13 Channeled Ware Thracians + R1b-M269 Paeonian Brygians who took on J2b2 Illyrian language, culture, and burial rites? Lol

    Where's all the linguistic links to Thracian? Why do we have so many more links to Illyrian? Haplogroup frequencies change over time, Illyrians are a mountain people, J2b2 is highest in the mountains, E-V13 and R1b more common in the lowlands

    Is it easier to grow communities in the mountains, or in the lowlands? It's easier to grow large communities in lowlands, hence why E-V13 and R1b are more common than J2b2.

    Look at any place on earth, CITIES have more people than RURAL AREAS. Woe to the Neo-Illyrians from the Trojan-Dardanian plains, they want to live in fantasy.

    Why do scholars say Albanians have roughly the same components from the Bronze Age to current times, why are we closer to HRV_IA than Bulgaria IA? We are literally pulled in the direction of the West Balkans, not the East Balkans. Why do Byzantine Epirotes and Ancient Macedonians overlap with Albanians? Why aren't those Macedonians pulled into the direction of Thrace? Epirotes and Macedonians intermarried with ILLYRIANS. Why does Albanian match Messapic, and why do scholars put it together in a branch with Illyric and Albanian?

    Truly amazing, this need, from the Neo-Illyrians to be from somewhere far away east. Why do ancient sources say that the Dardanians were Illyrian, and that the Paeoni were Illyrian influenced? Even the Maedi and Triballi are said to have Illyrian influence, but noooo, the Neo-Illyrians, and Riverman, think that J2b2 was only confined to a thin line on the Adriatic coast Like I said before, we need to test Bosnia, Southern Serbia, Kosova, and we need more samples from Montenegro (in the North of MNE where J2b2 and E-V13 could have met as it's more close to Central Balkans, Doclea is pure Illyrian territory in Ancient times)

    Once we test these areas then we can start drawing more accurate conclusions to please the Neo-Illyrians. When we find E-V13 there, what will that mean? That these Thracians stopped cremating and took on an Illyrian burial rite. It seems much more likely that Proto-Albanians come from somewhere within the square of Croatia-Serbia-Albania-Macedonia. All the current data does not suggest we come from a square of Serbia-Romania-Macedonia-Bulgaria. It's amazing how it's only Kosovars who support this nonsense. They want to feel "special" and withdrawn from Albania, even though the data points for our origin in the West Balkans, by genetics, culture, and linguistics. Their false rhetoric is what Serbs and Greeks are foaming at the mouth for, to confirm their propaganda of Albanians being some new population that just popped out of the woods somewhere East.

    The Triballi wild Boar is a symbol for the Serbian Governtment seal ............are you sure on what you state or are you quoting from Quora
    the Parliament adopted the Serbian Coat of Arms in 1805, their official seal depicted the heraldic emblems of Serbia and Tribalia.[38]


    Thracian hypothesis saw potential Albanian ancestors in the Thracian stratum in Dardania. In
    keeping with a comparatively recent view of this Thracian stratum as an ethno-linguistically separate Daco-Mysian region, which included
    Dardania,

    The Albanian language emerged in consequence of inter-linguistic diffusions among the indigenous and
    Romanized Balkan populations, as inferred by Agnia Desnitskaya, resulting in an amalgamation of the old and new with the Latin lexicon as
    a substrate element of the new language of the new inhabitants.
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Besides L283 even Z2103>CTS9219 was also confirmed in Illyrian Iron Age context. So two of our major lines confirmed thus far among them, wether we like it or not. That also may very well have linguistic implications regardless what linguists say now days.

    you sound very disappointed that Illyrians had more Haplogroups than just J-L283 !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Besides L283 even Z2103>CTS9219 was also confirmed in Illyrian Iron Age context. So two of our major lines confirmed thus far among them, wether we like it or not. That also may very well have linguistic implications regardless what linguists say now days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excine View Post
    It's becoming a joke that some people are trying to cope so hard that now they're just posting modern frequencies of haplogroups as if anyone claimed that 100% of modern Albanian Y-DNA haplogroups come directly from Illyrians or as if that has anything to do with the Albanian autosomal profile whose closest is the Illyrian one. It's very hard for some people to understand that from J-L283 to I-Y3120, all Albanians have mostly ancestors from the ancient western Balkans. This ancient population is called "Illyrians".

    Close to 40% of Albanian lines have been found in just one site What other population in the Balkans can claim that at such an early date for the modern population? It's clear that R-Z2103+ and J-L283+ Albanian lines were part of the same Illyrian/P-Alb population and when get data from other Illyrian sites we'll see what else Illyrians carried. For reference, Gauls had 4-5 main lineages/haplogroups.
    Absolutely great points. And let's not forget that in addition to J-L283, we have R-Z2103+ confirmed among the Iapygians (Daunians). So we have evidence that southern Illyrians carried at least these two haplogroups, which all Albanians have ancestors from.

    Archeogenetic studies are still in their infancy. When it comes to Albanian J-L283, we should also keep in mind that over 50% of it falls under J-Y21045>PH4679 subclade, which as of now has yet to be confirmed in aDNA (before some of us proclaim ourselves "Neo-Illyrians" ). I have no reason to believe it has a different history from the others, but considering it hasn't been found among ancient samples closer to the Adriatic coast, which make up the bulk of available aDNA, maybe this subclade was further inland like ancient Dardania or the immediate surrounds. Modern diversity is greater further inland in Albanian territories as well.
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Absolutely great points. And let's not forget that in addition to J-L283, we have R-Z2103+ confirmed among the Iapygians (Daunians). So we have evidence that southern Illyrians carried at least these two haplogroups, which all Albanians have ancestors from.
    Archeogenetic studies are still in their infancy. When it comes to Albanian J-L283, we should also keep in mind that over 50% of it falls under J-Y21045>PH4679 subclade, which as of now has yet to be found in aDNA (before some of us proclaim ourselves "Neo-Illyrians"). I have no reason to believe it has a different history from the others, but considering it hasn't been found among ancient samples close to the Adriatic coast, maybe this lineage was further inland, like ancient Dardania or the immediate surrounds. Modern diversity is also greater further inland in Albanian territories.

    Indeed, whatever the case will end up being, we are starting to get closer at the final clues regarding what is and what isn't. Unfortunately some members here will still continue and try insisting otherwise, an evil tag-team of anti-Albanian morons at their finest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    you sound very disappointed that Illyrians had more Haplogroups than just J-L283 !!!
    torzio/sile/zanipolo/vettor, stop embarrassing yourself and go take a nap Your obsession with Albanians is mind boggling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    torzio/sile/zanipolo/vettor, stop embarrassing yourself and go take a nap Your obsession with Albanians is mind boggling.

    you missed a few ...........so you also hate to find other haplogroups for the "illyrians"

    for you

    Italian Cetina appears ca. 2500–2300 BC.
    Cetina is therefore a synergistic culture (relating to the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations) , developed in combination with local cultures by migrating Bell Beakers, likely from a region near the Adriatic island of Palagruža, where Bell Beaker elements are predominant: wristguards, comb–stamp decorated pottery sherds with Bell Beaker decoration, and flint-inventory with characteristic arrowheads typical of Mediterranean Bell Beakers . Characteristic settlements, especially in the western Balkan hinterland, suggest that Cetina settlers were nomadic herders.

    The twenty-five Cetina sites comprise the whole northern and western Adriatic shore, stretching from Trieste in the north to the ‘heel’ of southern Apulia, with concentrations around the Daunia peninsula ( Gargano ) and the Apulian plain, with related pottery in the Corazzo–Zungri settlement showing extension towards Calabria and further inland, including also a northern site in the province of Trento. Its influence is thus felt along the Adriatic from Istria and the karst hinterland of Trieste and the southern Apennines, but also to the western Balkan hinterland.

    Chronologically, it seems that first maritime beakers appear ca. 2500 BC or shortly after that in south and south-east Italy, impacting native cultures like the Laterza–Cellino San Marco culture.


    Your tunnel vision of Cetina to only have J-L283 is a worry

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    So two of our major lines confirmed thus far among them, wether we like it or not. That also may very well have linguistic implications regardless what linguists say now days.
    By saying „the main and defining paternal line“ one does not exclude other paternal lines also being present at low frequencies. The importance of the wording „main and defining“ is that J2b-L283 has the highest, most diverse frequency and is the most important indicator for Illyrian presence in a region.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Absolutely great points. And let's not forget that in addition to J-L283, we have R-Z2103+ confirmed among the Iapygians (Daunians). So we have evidence that southern Illyrians carried at least these two haplogroups, which all Albanians have ancestors from.

    Archeogenetic studies are still in their infancy. When it comes to Albanian J-L283, we should also keep in mind that over 50% of it falls under J-Y21045>PH4679 subclade, which as of now has yet to be confirmed in aDNA (before some of us proclaim ourselves "Neo-Illyrians" ). I have no reason to believe it has a different history from the others, but considering it hasn't been found among ancient samples closer to the Adriatic coast, which make up the bulk of available aDNA, maybe this subclade was further inland like ancient Dardania or the immediate surrounds. Modern diversity is greater further inland in Albanian territories as well.
    That "remark" aside, which I think you could address me directly with, I don't see a problem in writing that as an aDNA ethnonym in some anthroforum under a paternal line that has constantly been found in that archeological context I shall not name . I usually ignore such comments that I have seen multiple times here but since it is coming from you, I wanted to answer it.

    Neither do I have a reason for believing that J2b-L283>Y21045>PH4679 has a "different history" considering we also had that YP91+ in IA Croatia didn't we? This speaks of diversity. Z638+ being found in BA Dinaric culture, LBA Italy and Montenegro manifesting in Z1297 and Z1297>Z1295>Y21878 was also a logical conclusion given the timeframe of the in batches released samples in question. The same applies to Z638>>Z631>Z1043+ which we have in early AD Serbia and Montenegro or Y27522+ which doesn’t really get much attention besides having a significant modern percentage in our folks. IA presence should be nearby for some likely more southern, for others more inland, northern for what we can logically conclude is that they will be very likely found in the same archeological complexes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    By saying „the main and defining paternal line“ one does not exclude other paternal lines also being present at low frequencies. The importance of the wording „main and defining“ is that J2b-L283 has the highest, most diverse frequency and is the most important indicator for Illyrian presence in a region.
    Sure, but I have noticed you keep dismissing it like it’s nothing. When today it’s one of our major linages and super relevant to our ethnogenesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Sure, but I have noticed you keep dismissing it like it’s nothing. When today it’s one of our major linages and super relevant to our ethnogenesis.
    Us J2-L283 Neo Illyrians only accept Z2103>CTS9219, sorry bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Archeogenetic studies are still in their infancy. When it comes to Albanian J-L283, we should also keep in mind that over 50% of it falls under J-Y21045>PH4679 subclade, which as of now has yet to be confirmed in aDNA (before some of us proclaim ourselves "Neo-Illyrians" ).
    Great point. Maybe the Albanian J2-L283 comes from..... Daco-Thraco-Schytians? I'll pay Riverman a couple of dinars to go outside and dig in some sites to find and then stare at some pots, then cook up a crazy Eastern theory that will torture everybody on anthroforas for years.

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    My thinking is simple; Illyrians were more northern shifted than Albanians despite Albanian having 15%-20% Northern European admixture (ie. Slavic). Why? Because Albanians have substantial admixture from Eastern Balkans (Dacian or Thracian) associated with the dominant male line of E-V13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    So Proto-Albanians are E-V13 Channeled Ware Thracians + R1b-M269 Paeonian Brygians who took on J2b2 Illyrian language, culture, and burial rites? Lol

    Where's all the linguistic links to Thracian? Why do we have so many more links to Illyrian? Haplogroup frequencies change over time, Illyrians are a mountain people, J2b2 is highest in the mountains, E-V13 and R1b more common in the lowlands

    Is it easier to grow communities in the mountains, or in the lowlands? It's easier to grow large communities in lowlands, hence why E-V13 and R1b are more common than J2b2.

    Look at any place on earth, CITIES have more people than RURAL AREAS. Woe to the Neo-Illyrians from the Trojan-Dardanian plains, they want to live in fantasy.

    Why do scholars say Albanians have roughly the same components from the Bronze Age to current times, why are we closer to HRV_IA than Bulgaria IA? We are literally pulled in the direction of the West Balkans, not the East Balkans. Why do Byzantine Epirotes and Ancient Macedonians overlap with Albanians? Why aren't those Macedonians pulled into the direction of Thrace? Epirotes and Macedonians intermarried with ILLYRIANS. Why does Albanian match Messapic, and why do scholars put it together in a branch with Illyric and Albanian?

    Truly amazing, this need, from the Neo-Illyrians to be from somewhere far away east. Why do ancient sources say that the Dardanians were Illyrian, and that the Paeoni were Illyrian influenced? Even the Maedi and Triballi are said to have Illyrian influence, but noooo, the Neo-Illyrians, and Riverman, think that J2b2 was only confined to a thin line on the Adriatic coast Like I said before, we need to test Bosnia, Southern Serbia, Kosova, and we need more samples from Montenegro (in the North of MNE where J2b2 and E-V13 could have met as it's more close to Central Balkans, Doclea is pure Illyrian territory in Ancient times)

    Once we test these areas then we can start drawing more accurate conclusions to please the Neo-Illyrians. When we find E-V13 there, what will that mean? That these Thracians stopped cremating and took on an Illyrian burial rite. It seems much more likely that Proto-Albanians come from somewhere within the square of Croatia-Serbia-Albania-Macedonia. All the current data does not suggest we come from a square of Serbia-Romania-Macedonia-Bulgaria. It's amazing how it's only Kosovars who support this nonsense. They want to feel "special" and withdrawn from Albania, even though the data points for our origin in the West Balkans, by genetics, culture, and linguistics. Their false rhetoric is what Serbs and Greeks are foaming at the mouth for, to confirm their propaganda of Albanians being some new population that just popped out of the woods somewhere East.
    Mic drop!
    Mic drop!

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post

    you must be one of these people that state the Epirotes are Illyrian
    all major cities in Albania are greek in origin ................from 733BC to the Roman annexation at the time of the Hannibal wars......Durres, Appolonia, Butrint to name 3 of the big towns are all Greek in origin and where still Greek when the Romans moved in .............
    Do you know the amount of Illyrian names in Durres, Apollonia and Butrinti?

    It's pretty ambitious to call some towns greek, when Greece has a huge number of archeological excavation sites, but with less and less DNA analysis.

    The amount of EU funds in Greek Archeological Sites is so huge that they could found hundreds and hundreds of DNA samples and there would be less uncertainty about some events in history.
    Waiting to see DNA samples from Pella, Dodona and other Western and Northern sites in Greece since EBA, to have a better look at Epirus and Macedonian "greekness".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    So Proto-Albanians are E-V13 Channeled Ware Thracians + R1b-M269 Paeonian Brygians who took on J2b2 Illyrian language, culture, and burial rites? Lol
    Where's all the linguistic links to Thracian? Why do we have so many more links to Illyrian? Haplogroup frequencies change over time, Illyrians are a mountain people, J2b2 is highest in the mountains, E-V13 and R1b more common in the lowlands
    Is it easier to grow communities in the mountains, or in the lowlands? It's easier to grow large communities in lowlands, hence why E-V13 and R1b are more common than J2b2.
    Look at any place on earth, CITIES have more people than RURAL AREAS. Woe to the Neo-Illyrians from the Trojan-Dardanian plains, they want to live in fantasy.
    Why do scholars say Albanians have roughly the same components from the Bronze Age to current times, why are we closer to HRV_IA than Bulgaria IA? We are literally pulled in the direction of the West Balkans, not the East Balkans. Why do Byzantine Epirotes and Ancient Macedonians overlap with Albanians? Why aren't those Macedonians pulled into the direction of Thrace? Epirotes and Macedonians intermarried with ILLYRIANS. Why does Albanian match Messapic, and why do scholars put it together in a branch with Illyric and Albanian?
    Truly amazing, this need, from the Neo-Illyrians to be from somewhere far away east. Why do ancient sources say that the Dardanians were Illyrian, and that the Paeoni were Illyrian influenced? Even the Maedi and Triballi are said to have Illyrian influence, but noooo, the Neo-Illyrians, and Riverman, think that J2b2 was only confined to a thin line on the Adriatic coast Like I said before, we need to test Bosnia, Southern Serbia, Kosova, and we need more samples from Montenegro (in the North of MNE where J2b2 and E-V13 could have met as it's more close to Central Balkans, Doclea is pure Illyrian territory in Ancient times)
    Once we test these areas then we can start drawing more accurate conclusions to please the Neo-Illyrians. When we find E-V13 there, what will that mean? That these Thracians stopped cremating and took on an Illyrian burial rite. It seems much more likely that Proto-Albanians come from somewhere within the square of Croatia-Serbia-Albania-Macedonia. All the current data does not suggest we come from a square of Serbia-Romania-Macedonia-Bulgaria. It's amazing how it's only Kosovars who support this nonsense. They want to feel "special" and withdrawn from Albania, even though the data points for our origin in the West Balkans, by genetics, culture, and linguistics. Their false rhetoric is what Serbs and Greeks are foaming at the mouth for, to confirm their propaganda of Albanians being some new population that just popped out of the woods somewhere East.
    there is only one historian who states the Dardanians are illyrian and that is strabo.
    but he also states maritime Illyrians and Interior Illyrians ..............see link below with map.

    https://www.academia.edu/489614/Peop...seen_by_Strabo

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    Quote Originally Posted by epirus1000 View Post
    Do you know the amount of Illyrian names in Durres, Apollonia and Butrinti?

    It's pretty ambitious to call some towns greek, when Greece has a huge number of archeological excavation sites, but with less and less DNA analysis.

    The amount of EU funds in Greek Archeological Sites is so huge that they could found hundreds and hundreds of DNA samples and there would be less uncertainty about some events in history.
    Waiting to see DNA samples from Pella, Dodona and other Western and Northern sites in Greece since EBA, to have a better look at Epirus and Macedonian "greekness".

    no

    let me know ..............I only have pages of Illyrian names in Noricum (ancient east austria and slovenia )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    Great point. Maybe the Albanian J2-L283 comes from..... Daco-Thraco-Schytians? I'll pay Riverman a couple of dinars to go outside and dig in some sites to find and then stare at some pots, then cook up a crazy Eastern theory that will torture everybody on anthroforas for years.
    Don't get Riverman started now.

    In all seriousness though, I think the most likely origin of Albanian J-PH4679 lineages is the mountainous regions of northern Albania. Ancient Dardania is a possibility, under which scenario these lineages could've fled nearby to northern Albanian mountains during the turmoils of Late Antiquity - Early Middle Ages. But if it turns out to be Dardania, are we still going to be "Illyrians" since some don't consider them as Illyrians.

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    20220320_125302.jpg20220320_122642.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    no
    let me know ..............I only have pages of Illyrian names in Noricum (ancient east austria and slovenia )
    These are just on my gallery from a recent visit to Apollonia Museum. Tritos, Plator and Enkleida, just on two stones.

  20. #3070
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-12-21
    Posts
    673

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-L283>Y52453
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Country: Kosovo



    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    In all seriousness though, I think the most likely origin of Albanian J-PH4679 lineages is the mountainous regions of northern Albania. Ancient Dardania is a possibility, under which scenario these lineages could've fled nearby to northern Albanian mountains during the turmoils of Late Antiquity - Early Middle Ages. But if it turns out to be Dardania, are we still going to be "Illyrians" since some don't consider them as Illyrians.
    Illyrian IA Glasinac-Mati is one of the major archeological complexes in the territory of Dardania (be it under Roman or Pre-Roman set borders) and I have never seen any academic opposing that. Besides that there were also Brnjica and Channeled Ware, totally unrelated to the Illyrian sphere.

    Let's not beat around the bush and be "funny" here since this all played out very well for many micro clades of J2b-L283 and it is not going to magically be different for Y21045>PH4679. Gudnja set the start and after all the samples and samples to come there is a clear picture for Z638+ and its archaeogenetic association.

  21. #3071
    Banned
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    so you claim Epirotes are Illyrians ?......yes or no
    no I did not see the claim ...............link it please
    Epirotes are people that have both Greek and Illyrian influence. Who they were originally I don't know.

    We see with both Macedonians and Epirotes that the earliest sources call them barbarians, while after Alexander (during the Hellenistic period) they started being considered Greeks.

    So, yes during the Hellenistic period, they were considered "Greeks". But we have no idea who the original Epirotes were.

  22. #3072
    Banned
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    25-12-21
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by 1337_ View Post
    No I personally do not think they were Illyrians neither were Macedonians. In fact, I used to believe Macedonians might of been Thracians but I don't know.

    I see now one of these Thracian sample belongs to Y-DNA R-Z93 which is the second Thracian I see with this Y-DNA and interesting
    Why would Macedonians be Thracians? Are you really buying into the "North Macedonian" crap some Greek nationalists are putting forward?

    Those Ohrid samples are clearly a part of Upper Macedonia.

  23. #3073
    Banned
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    25-12-21
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    737

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post

    83.9% (or 81.6%) of the total male Albanian population (general not specific to regions) does not belong to Y DNA J2b-L283 which via aDNA records has been shown to have been the main and defining Illyrian paternal line (map courtesy of Veseli): J2b-L283 ancient DNA

    Given the statistics it is also easy to conclude that this haplogroup in the bio of many Albanian accounts here is suspiciously over represented and that is statistically speaking impossible. The reason for this occurrence is quite simple: multiple spam/fake accounts.

    Albanian Y DNA (general not specific to regions) as per Rrenjet
    https://rrenjet.com/statistikat/:



    N E-V13 R-M269
    (R1b-Z2103 + R1b-PF7562)
    J2b-L283 I-Y3120 R-M417 I-M253 J-M410 J-M267 I-M223 G E-M123
    Albanians 1419 26.7% 19.9% 16.1% 7.2% 6.8% 5.2% 5.2% 2.7% 2.6% 1.3% 1.1%
    Gjenetika's http://www.gjenetika.com/statistikat/ statistics of the three most frequent paternal markers do not differ much from the above:



    N E-V13 R-M269
    (R1b-Z2103 + R1b-PF7562)
    J2b-L283
    Albanians 931 27.5% 20.1% 18.4%
    Note: R1b-Z2103 and R1b-PF7562 in both projects are grouped under the macro haplogroup designation R-M269.
    This dude's brain is not functioning properly. Today there are places where EV-13 is low, and there places where J2B2 is low, and vice-versa. It doesn't matter in the slightest and Albanians are very homogenenous and share an absurdly high level of IBD.

    Where most of my family hails from, EV13 is like 11%. In fact it's on par with R1a. Yet, J2B2/R1b are the dominant factions there, which clearly shows Illyrian links. There are places where EV13 is 40% in northern Kosovo, and places in Albania where J2B2 is 40%.

    All Albanians are very closely linked (autosomally/IBD), regardless whether they're from Kosovo, whether they're 10% EV13/J2B2 or 40% EV13/J2b2.

    Your brain cannot parse basic facts linked to how Y-DNA works. Y-DNA varies massively from village to village, clan to clan. It doesn't mean those people aren't closely linked. Small populations change Y-DNA percentages massively/frequently depending on how each clan/tribe migrates.

    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post

    83.9% (or 81.6%) of the total male Albanian population (general not specific to regions) does not belong to Y DNA J2b-L283
    Yes, and 75% of Y-DNA is not EV13. Yet, Albanian is a "Thracian" language because there is a low amount of EV13 in the samples found. You truly are brain dead.

    What's funny if you ignore Greeks who experienced the same EV13 growth. They are Thracians too.

  24. #3074
    Regular Member
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    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Why would Macedonians be Thracians? Are you really buying into the "North Macedonian" crap some Greek nationalists are putting forward?

    Those Ohrid samples are clearly a part of Upper Macedonia.
    Responding to your own 2nd account, to have a fictional debate, this is sad.

  25. #3075
    Iliria e Madhe Illyria's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-01-22
    Location
    Illyria
    Posts
    115

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>>>J-Z638

    Ethnic group
    Aryan Albanian Catholic Malësor
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    The Triballi wild Boar is a symbol for the Serbian Governtment seal ............are you sure on what you state or are you quoting from Quora
    the Parliament adopted the Serbian Coat of Arms in 1805, their official seal depicted the heraldic emblems of Serbia and Tribalia.[38]


    Thracian hypothesis saw potential Albanian ancestors in the Thracian stratum in Dardania. In
    keeping with a comparatively recent view of this Thracian stratum as an ethno-linguistically separate Daco-Mysian region, which included
    Dardania,

    The Albanian language emerged in consequence of inter-linguistic diffusions among the indigenous and
    Romanized Balkan populations, as inferred by Agnia Desnitskaya, resulting in an amalgamation of the old and new with the Latin lexicon as
    a substrate element of the new language of the new inhabitants.
    Try keeping up, you've been an obsessed "expert" with Albanians and the ancient Balkans for like 10+ years haven't you?

    Triballi, a Thracian people whose earliest known home was the “Triballian plain” (probably the Plain of Kosovo), near the junction of the Angrus and Brongus rivers (the western and southern Morava) in the north-central Balkans. Sometime after 424 BC they were overcome by the Autariatae, an Illyrian tribe. In 339 BC the Triballi refused to allow Philip II of Macedon to pass through the Haemus (Balkan) Range unless they received a share of his booty. Philip forced a passage but was wounded in the hostilities. After Philip’s death, Alexander the Great in 335 crossed the Haemus and defeated the Triballi. The Macedonian expeditions left the land of the Triballi devastated, and the nearby Illyrians conquered them. They later gathered enough strength to cause trouble to the Roman governors of Macedonia.

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