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Thread: Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    He used the term Daco-Mysian. He believed the Mysians and Moesians had same origin, and the y -> oe sound change in Mysi -> Moesi is reflected in Albanian.

    He should have used the term Dardano-Mysian or something as he believed the Dardanians were non-Illyrian non-Thracian and also related to the Dardanoi of Troy, but he labelled their language as "Daco-Mysian".
    He also argued that the etymology of Mygdonia comes from Mys-gdon with -gdon being cognate of Greek cthon "land" (as in auto-cthon), so literaly Mysian land/country.

    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    He also argued that the etymology of Mygdonia comes from Mys-gdon with -gdon being cognate of Greek cthon "land" (as in auto-cthon), so literaly Mysian land/country.

    Another reason why not to believe his retarded overreaching theories. Mygdonia comes from Mys and gdon he says. What about all the other similar ending regions?

    Makedonia, Paeonia, Pannonia, Chaonia, Pelagonia, Ciconia, Lakonia, Lykaonia, continuing with Dodona (Doric of Dodone), Salona, Narona, Cremona, etc.

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    I suggest read the remnants of Thracian language by Duridanov,

    The word Muca, which means the 'sons; the male connection of tribe,
    comparing with Scotish Mac, and also in Armenian language, means also same-simmilar,

    I do not know if it is also connected with Slavic musk-ara meaning man (male)
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    What a trio, Johane, Yetos, and torzio. Eupedias pinnacle of Illyro-Thracology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    What a trio, Johane, Yetos, and torzio. Eupedia�s pinnacle of Illyro-Thracology.

    we are here to help the uneducated
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This etymology is supported further by Shkurda in Kotor, which is a gorge.

    A gorge is by definition: a narrow valley between hills or mountains, typically with steep rocky walls and a stream running through it

    The form shkurda shows Albanian mediation into the slavic languages, but it also shows Latin era entry into Albanian language, that it was not inherited from pre latin (scuola -> shkollë).

    So shkurda is also related etymologically to this Lithuanian. skardis cognate etymology, as is Scardona in Croatia, etc, all these illyrian placenames that do not match proto-Albanian.

    Another Illyrian name that may be explained with taking into account Lithuanian imho is Ardiaei (w was lost word initially in Greek so it could descend from a root *ward- at least but either way in Latin it is attested as Vardiaei or Vardaei.

    Latvian: vārds(name, word”)
    Lithuanian: var̃das(name)

    And that is essentially meant ''people of the name" ie "people who have a good name", who are well known. For a possible semantic parallel compare Greek ονομαστοί (from *h₁nḗh₃mn̥), which by the way in Latvian is translated as slavens (from
    *ḱlew-.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    we are here to help the uneducated
    I dont know a single member of Eupedia who isnt revolted by your posts and doesnt mock you. In addition, your English is embarrassing for an Australian, a supposed native speaker.

  8. #308
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    The name of the Illyrian queen Teuta is not proto-Albanian.


    It is cognate with Gothic. Thiudans [king]


    It meant "queen" from an older West Indo-European. *teutā [country, people].


    Other cognates:


    Old Irish. Tuath [people, tribe]
    Lithuanian. Tauta [nation]
    Oscan. Touto (community)

    Again an issue since Albanian does not have this word.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    The name of the Illyrian queen Teuta is not proto-Albanian.


    It is cognate with Gothic. Thiudans [king]


    It meant "queen" from an older West Indo-European. *teutā [country, people].


    Other cognates:


    Old Irish. Tuath [people, tribe]
    Lithuanian. Tauta [nation]
    Oscan. Touto (community)

    Again an issue since Albanian does not have this word.
    Possibly of political interest to this is the revolt against the Illyrian kingdom that is mentioned by Polybius, in which Teuta had to withdraw Illyrian troops from Phoenice (modern Finiq, Albania) because of a revolt in which some Illyrians went to the side of the Dardanian kingdom.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    So in this scenario, we can imagine 300-10,000 proto-Albanians surviving the barbarian migrations, and being moved southwest.

    Then, once settled in a new area, maybe north-Albania first and then Mat regions, they begin demographic expansion.

    I don't believe proto-Albanians were really assimilating large groups of non-proto-Albanians, as this is not traditionally the case (for example Kosovo Albanians had large demographic expansions, they were not assimilating non-Albanians), they could have just had lots of children. This is supported by Albanian y-dna.
    I agree but I believe proto-Albanians to be descended from somewhere in Bosnia or Montenegro, probably where we got the high J2b.

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    I've noticed there sure is a lot of emphasis on Albania in this forum for such a small country. I wonder why that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicu View Post
    I've noticed there sure is a lot of emphasis on Albania in this forum for such a small country. I wonder why that is.

    It is actually logical. Contrary to bigger european folks, the question of their ancestry is still far from solved at this moment. I hope for them and for my own curiosity to have some answers soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_joe View Post
    It is actually logical. Contrary to bigger european folks, the question of their ancestry is still far from solved at this moment. I hope for them and for my own curiosity to have some answers soon.
    What do you mean exactly?

    Linguistically were IE and part of a Proto-Balkan group.

    Y-DNA wise were again predominantly Proto-Balkanic.

    Autosomally were again predominantly Iron Age/Imperial Rome Balkanic.

    Theres just some Kosovars here that want to justify their recolonization of Eastern Kosovo and beyond by moving the homeland of Proto-Albanian next to their home and away from Albania and Epirus.

    For over 1000 years the Albanians showed that they didnt assimilate other ethnicities around them, namely the Slavs, Vlachs, and Greeks.

    But these individuals want us all to believe that we boomed from a relatively small and uninhabitable mountain region corresponding with North Albania and Western Kosovo and managed to assimilate Romance and Greek speaking folks at the peak of their civilization.

    You know, ignorant shepherds of the 3rd century assimilated Romans in modern Albania ans Epirus up until 900 AD, then we just procreated a lot and gave birth to millions of people in Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, South Serbia, Arvanites in Greece, Arbereshe in Italy, millions of Albanians in Turkey.

    All stemming from the uninhabitable mountains of Kosovo (which is mainly a lowland). How convenient.
    Last edited by Dushman; 08-11-21 at 18:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_joe View Post
    It is actually logical. Contrary to bigger european folks, the question of their ancestry is still far from solved at this moment. I hope for them and for my own curiosity to have some answers soon.
    Oddly enough, but it was the Asian peoples who were the first than the European ones, which is why such a great story! There is something to think about!

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    Very speculative, some words are too modern, but interesting nonetheless.

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    Unsurprisingly, the most problematic taxon is Albanian, which skips across the tree, occupying various positions within the Inner IE clade: from the first outlier to the third member of the Balto-Slavic–Indo-Iranian clade, depending on the dataset and the method used (Figures S1–S3). There are underlying reasons for such instability. First there are a huge number of non-inherited items in the Albanian basic vocabulary, which are thus excluded from our dataset, as scarceness of data leads to lack of resolution. A second reason is our insufficient knowledge of Albanian historical phonology. Due to the scarceness of Albanian inherited vocabulary we may be failing to detect some non-trivial phonological rules. As a result, certain Albanian stems that are treated here as etymologically isolated may actually be true cognates of the corresponding Proto-IE terms.
    https://www.degruyter.com/document/d...2020-0060/html
    The resulting tree topology and datings are entirely compatible with established expert views. Our main finding is the multifurcation of the Inner IE clade into four branches ca. 3357–2162 bc: (1) Greek-Armenian, (2) Albanian, (3) Italic-Germanic-Celtic, (4) Balto-Slavic–Indo-Iranian.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    What do you mean exactly?

    Linguistically we�re IE and part of a Proto-Balkan group.

    Y-DNA wise we�re again predominantly Proto-Balkanic.

    Autosomally we�re again predominantly Iron Age/Imperial Rome Balkanic.

    There�s just some Kosovars here that want to justify their recolonization of Eastern Kosovo and beyond by moving the homeland of Proto-Albanian next to their home and away from Albania and Epirus.

    For over 1000 years the Albanians showed that they didn�t assimilate other ethnicities around them, namely the Slavs, Vlachs, and Greeks.

    But these individuals want us all to believe that we boomed from a relatively small and uninhabitable mountain region corresponding with North Albania and Western Kosovo and managed to assimilate Romance and Greek speaking folks at the peak of their civilization.

    You know, ignorant shepherds of the 3rd century assimilated Romans in modern Albania ans Epirus up until 900 AD, then we just procreated a lot and gave birth to millions of people in Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, South Serbia, Arvanites in Greece, Arbereshe in Italy, millions of Albanians in Turkey.

    All stemming from the uninhabitable mountains of Kosovo (which is mainly a lowland). How convenient.

    as time passes , you might (depends on how nationalistic you are ) realise that the origin of Albanians is with the Dardanians ...........and not with any other race .................your national false history ( like the majority of every country ) has been proven that the proto-albanians did not live on the coast
    You can continue to falsify your current claims if you like.......it makes me have a laugh

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    as time passes , you might (depends on how nationalistic you are ) realise that the origin of Albanians is with the Dardanians ...........and not with any other race .................your national false history ( like the majority of every country ) has been proven that the proto-albanians did not live on the coast
    You can continue to falsify your current claims if you like.......it makes me have a laugh
    Why does a simple forum message about genetics and linguistics make you laugh? Are you okay?

    I personally require real humour to have a proper laugh. I didnt lose it yet. Take care of yourself mate.

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    Sheesh, does it really matter to people the exact like square kilometer that their people's ethnogenesis supposedly took place? Jeez. That's like kinda strange in this day and age, with a globalized world. Most countries would rather point to actual achievements of their people and culture, and their contributions to humanity, while some are desperately clinging on to ideas of "we're the first people in this valley!", and "your people were from a few miles that way near the coast", or "you mixed with some of these people, you're not worthy of this land anymore!", lol. And these places are too obscure for the vast majority of the world to even know or care about, unfortunately.

    I mean, I'm not saying it's not interesting in some general sense, but it's not like a bunch of people arguing on a forum are going to uncover the "real" truth about something, in absence of actual new evidence, which unfortunately is probably not going to come up anymore at this point. And I'd wager most of them aren't scholars who are going to write academic articles on their theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicu View Post
    Sheesh, does it really matter to people the exact like square kilometer that their people's ethnogenesis supposedly took place? Jeez. That's like kinda strange in this day and age, with a globalized world. Most countries would rather point to actual achievements of their people and culture, and their contributions to humanity, while some are desperately clinging on to ideas of "we're the first people in this valley!", and "your people were from a few miles that way near the coast", or "you mixed with some of these people, you're not worthy of this land anymore!", lol. And these places are too obscure for the vast majority of the world to even know or care about, unfortunately.

    I mean, I'm not saying it's not interesting in some general sense, but it's not like a bunch of people arguing on a forum are going to uncover the "real" truth about something, in absence of actual new evidence, which unfortunately is probably not going to come up anymore at this point. And I'd wager most of them aren't scholars who are going to write academic articles on their theories.
    Depends on the topic............if the topic or the time zone older than nationalism, which is only 250 years old, ok ............unless you are a catalan and do not want to sit under castilian madrid
    once , its older than nations, then your comments have zero value

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicu View Post
    Sheesh, does it really matter to people the exact like square kilometer that their people's ethnogenesis supposedly took place? Jeez. That's like kinda strange in this day and age, with a globalized world. Most countries would rather point to actual achievements of their people and culture, and their contributions to humanity, while some are desperately clinging on to ideas of "we're the first people in this valley!", and "your people were from a few miles that way near the coast", or "you mixed with some of these people, you're not worthy of this land anymore!", lol. And these places are too obscure for the vast majority of the world to even know or care about, unfortunately.

    I mean, I'm not saying it's not interesting in some general sense, but it's not like a bunch of people arguing on a forum are going to uncover the "real" truth about something, in absence of actual new evidence, which unfortunately is probably not going to come up anymore at this point. And I'd wager most of them aren't scholars who are going to write academic articles on their theories.
    The point is to discuss it on the forum....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This exact region is where Georgiev argued that Albanian descended from a non-Illyrian, non-Thracian, specifying Dardania, which he called "Daco-Mysian".


    He believed Dardania had an Albanian etymology, and that despite low attestation many "Dacian" words had parallels in Albanian.

    Since his time there have been some developments, the main one being that linguists like Matzinger, Shumacher, etc, who have extensively studied old Albanian texts, no longer believe in a "Dacian" substratum in Romanian/Vlach languages.

    The evidence is clear that they are simply loanwords from Proto-Albanian into Proto-Romanian.

    And what was important for his scheme was that "Daco-Mysian" was not Thracian just as much as Phrygian was not Thracian.

    I think that the term "Dacian" was wrong to use and the term "Dardano-Mysian" should be used, since Dardanoi and Mysi appear since the Homeric era as something separate, whereas the term "Dacian" is a very very late term.

    Likewise, there are issues with a perfect overlapping of Dacian and Albanian places they fit, whereas others they just do not like with Thracian.

    I think it is obvious that a "Dardanian" substrate or adstrate was present in these regions, that affected the proto-Messapics and some Illyrians in the west, and some Thracians in the East, such that you find Albanoid features in "Daco-Mysian" regions of Thrace like you do in Messapic regions.




    The links of our past are in Dacia Meditarranea. Just west of the Bulgarian capital there is a valley called Burel, seems to be related to the Albanian word berryl(elbow), the valley has a 90 degree angle turn, thus shaped like an elbow. At the heart of medieval Albania, in the Mat valley is the village/town of Burrel.
    There many toponyms in this area of Bulgaria and on the Serbian side of the border that seem to stem from Albanian, and borrowed by the Slavs as shown by Slavic pronouncation. This is my finding by simply scanning the areas west of Sofia: Kambelevtsi (from Alb. kumbulla, plum), two villages named Dreatin (related to Albanian Drite(light), there are settlements in Albania named Drite),Bukorovtsi (from Albanian bukur), Arzan (same as Albanian villages named arrez, from the word arre (farm land)), Buzovitsa from Albanain buze(many such toponym derivates in Albania), Lyalintsi from Albanian lala(this toponym existed even in Peloponnese where Albanians settled near Patras), on the Serbian-Bulgarian border there is the Ruy mountain which can be related to the Albanian word for safety/protection ruj. Village of Giginitsi (gheg). Village of Oresha (similar to Orosh in Mirdite). Village of Bilintsi, could derive from blini. Village of Gintsi (probably from Gjin, which would equate to Ivan).

    On the Serbian side of the border is the village Grapa (Gropa in Albania from the word for hole/depression in the land), village of Postalica from Albanian posht(lower), there are also two settlement with similar name Petrilje and Petrlas which reminds me of the Albanian fort and settlement of Petrela near Tirana where the first Albanian principality appears. Village of Dumbija(from the word tooth dhemb? like dhembel mountain), village of Lalinice again from lala just has a Serbian pronounciation. The village of Gaginice (gheg). Village of Resen (same as Reshen in Mirdita).

    I am sure there can be more toponyms. But I more interested to look into any census data from the Middle Ages from these villages and nearby area. A proto-Albanian people clearly stayed behind and got assimilated over time but the Albanian heritage and names would have lingered for some time and would be easy to detect if we can get our hands such documents. I don't know if the Bulgarian empire(s) took any population census, if there isn't any, we should try to look into Byzantine records of the area and early Ottoman, because the Ottomans took over in the late 1300s and took defters right away.
    Last edited by PaleoRevenge; 26-11-21 at 01:20.

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    While I agree there is something to the Dardanian connection, I believe this is to the Bronze Age Dardanians not Iron Age which appear to have been subjugated and settled by Illyrians. Also to me the dardhe connection never made any sense. The word dardhe itself stems from derdh, which means to pour, which describes the physical attribute of the pear. Dardania therefore is related to derdh not dardh. And if you look at a map of Dardania it is a land where all rivers pour out of, at least it would have seemed to the people living there. Vardar river to the Aegean, Drin river to Adriatic, Morava river to the Danube. The land where rivers pour out. This explanation makes more sense than pear. Naming a country pearland is like naming a country watermelonia.

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