Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Johane Derite]

First time I am hearing that ‘vis’ means settlement in Albanian. What sort of dialect uses Vis for a settlement? I see the entree in wiki but not heard such a term before. I know ‘Vise’ for example which translates into ‘region’.

Right, place/land/region:


Etymology
Edit
From Proto-Albanian *uitśi-(ā), from Proto-Indo-European *weyḱ- (“house, settlement”). Cognate to Sanskrit विश् (víś, “settlement, community, tribe”), Ancient Greek οἰκία (oikía, “house”), Latin vicus (“village”)

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/vis

 

[1337_]

I love how this Johanne clown stopped making up fake quotes from books, and now is pretending to be a linguist. There are rules to how comparative linguistics work. It has to be peer reviewed by other people.

You can't just pull shit out of your ass based on similar sounding words.

This clown is doing stuff like "Oh look there is a Thracian tribe called "Paitoi". That's related to Albanian "Pajtoj",when in reality a five second check will show that most of them are Latin borrowed words.

Let him have his opinion. He doesn't bother me. It's actually some of these non-Albanians that bother me (mainly on other forums)

 

[Olti27]

the Taulantii and the Eel people , both went to modern Albania from the area of Budva Montenegro ................was Glaucias still around when Pyrrhus formed his empire ?

Dardania was still in existence.

Teuta strongholds and her rebellion was in modern Montenegro .

The Romans noted zero Illyrians in modern Albania from the time they took the Albania coast and inland from the Macedonians at the start of the 2nd Punic war

Macedonia and Hannibal where allies

As the romans secured Durres, Appolonia and Butrint from the macedonians at the time of the hannibal wars...................Philip V of Macedon had one last attempt to aid his ally Hannibal and so in 213BC he attacked and destroyed the Taulantii and eventually marched on and took Lissos ( Lehze ) from the Romans.......securing his only port on the adriatic sea...........stalemate occurred for the macedonians and romans and in 207BC a peace treaty was signed.
This was broken when the Macedonains supplied Hannibal with 3000 infantry at the battle of Zama ( africa )

Probably the death of Glaucias was an incentive/excuse for Pyrrhus to expand north.
The Illyrian Dassaretti were allied to the Romans in the battles against Macedonias.
Also when Augustus became the first emperor he made a campaign to bring order against various illyrian tribes because they didn't pay tribute. One of this tribes was the Taulanti. Appian: Illyrian Wars chapter 4.
So we have the Taulanti still kicking around in the late 1st century BC. Do you have any source connecting them to Montenegro? I would not exclude them coming from Dardania.

 

[1337_]

the Taulantii and the Eel people , both went to modern Albania from the area of Budva Montenegro ................was Glaucias still around when Pyrrhus formed his empire ?
Dardania was still in existence.
Teuta strongholds and her rebellion was in modern Montenegro .
The Romans noted zero Illyrians in modern Albania from the time they took the Albania coast and inland from the Macedonians at the start of the 2nd Punic war
Macedonia and Hannibal where allies

Albania was literally inhabited by Illyrian tribes before Romans ...

 

[torzio]

Albania was literally inhabited by Illyrian tribes before Romans ...

you must be one of these people that state the Epirotes are Illyrian

all major cities in Albania are greek in origin ................from 733BC to the Roman annexation at the time of the Hannibal wars......Durres, Appolonia, Butrint to name 3 of the big towns are all Greek in origin and where still Greek when the Romans moved in .............

 

[torzio]

Epidamnus / Dyrrachium: Epidamnus colony was founded in the year 627 by Corinth and Corcyra jointly ...................Corinthian Greeks

Circa 300BC It was seized or occupied by Cassander, Pyrrhus and
Teuta, after which it came under the protection of Rome and became known as
Dyrrachium


................................................................


Apollonia: Apollonia is the second Greek colony................Like Epidamnus, the colony was founded by Corinth and Corcyra. The
literature suggests that the colony was founded in 588 BC by a group of 200 colonizers
under the leadership of Gylax and that it functioned as an oligarchy


...................................................................


Butrint: Gilkes (2013: 93) calls Butrint the most studied ancient city in Albania.
The site has a long history of occupation and began to rise to prominence in the 6 th
century BC as trade with Corfu began after Corfu was taken by Corinth from the Liburnians in 733BC

 

[torzio]

The only 2 towns in Albania which are Illyrian and the first is still in question as Greek in origin is

Skodra

and

Lissos ......( Lehze )

 

[torzio]

ancient Greek and Roman sites/colonies in Albania ........matching iron-age sites

 

[torzio]

greek density in ironage Albania

 

[enter_tain]

you must be one of these people that state the Epirotes are Illyrian
all major cities in Albania are greek in origin ................from 733BC to the Roman annexation at the time of the Hannibal wars......Durres, Appolonia, Butrint to name 3 of the big towns are all Greek in origin and where still Greek when the Romans moved in .............

Did you see the Macedonian samples? They plotted identically with Illyrian Albanians. Epirotes will do the same, regardless of what culture they adopt. Epirotes/Macedonians were only considered fully "Greek" during the Hellenistic period after Alexander.

As for Durres/Apollonia, those were Greek colonies, not native Greek lands. They were founded on Illyrian soil with local Illyrian help.

Durres' original name, Epidamnus, has an Illyrian root (epi meaning "at" in Greek, but dami related to dem/bull). However, the Romans preferred "Dyrrahion/Dyrrahium" because the word "damn" was bad omen.

 

[1337_]

you must be one of these people that state the Epirotes are Illyrian
all major cities in Albania are greek in origin ................from 733BC to the Roman annexation at the time of the Hannibal wars......Durres, Appolonia, Butrint to name 3 of the big towns are all Greek in origin and where still Greek when the Romans moved in .............

Origin of Epirotes is disputed. Some mention them as Greek while others claim they were related to Illyrians. Epirotes never historically inhabited most of Albania. They were a tribe mainly that lived in Northern Greece / Southern Albania and they were clearly influenced by Greek / Hellenized and they also did mingle with Illyrian tribes at the same time in Albania. Most of Albania was filled with Illyrian tribes including Western Macedonia and as Southern Albania was inhabited by Illyrians. Even the town Ohrid was an Illyrian town, claimed by some to of been founded by a Phoenician that fled to Illyrians.

''Major Cities'' , There are Greek cities in Albania due to Greek colonies. No evidence supports the area was first settled by any Greeks or was Greek until Roman occupation.

 

[torzio]

Origin of Epirotes is disputed. Some mention them as Greek while others claim they were related to Illyrians. Epirotes never historically inhabited most of Albania. They were a tribe mainly that lived in Northern Greece / Southern Albania and they were clearly influenced by Greek / Hellenized and they also did mingle with Illyrian tribes at the same time in Albania. Most of Albania was filled with Illyrian tribes including Western Macedonia and as Southern Albania was inhabited by Illyrians. Even the town Ohrid was an Illyrian town, claimed by some to of been founded by a Phoenician that fled to Illyrians.

''Major Cities'' , There are Greek cities in Albania due to Greek colonies. No evidence supports the area was first settled by any Greeks or was Greek until Roman occupation.

so your claim...is that the epirotes are illyrians .............is this your thinking ?

there might be some who think this based on Pyrrhus the Epirote helping only the messapics in Italy against the Romans ..........Pyrrhus spoke similar to Messapics but could not communicate with the Daunians linguistically.....BUT......this can only be the case that Pyrrhus spoke many languages,

 

[torzio]

Did you see the Macedonian samples? They plotted identically with Illyrian Albanians. Epirotes will do the same, regardless of what culture they adopt. Epirotes/Macedonians were only considered fully "Greek" during the Hellenistic period after Alexander.
As for Durres/Apollonia, those were Greek colonies, not native Greek lands. They were founded on Illyrian soil with local Illyrian help.
Durres' original name, Epidamnus, has an Illyrian root (epi meaning "at" in Greek, but dami related to dem/bull). However, the Romans preferred "Dyrrahion/Dyrrahium" because the word "damn" was bad omen.

so you claim Epirotes are Illyrians ?......yes or no

no I did not see the claim ...............link it please

 

[torzio]

I was watching an italian discussion last week on the topic of iron age tribes from slovenia to albania and the only thing i got out of it was that they said the following tribes where linked as north west balkan group and the rest where south west balkan

NW balkan tribes they mentioned where

Ardiaei
Autariatae
Daorsi
Dalmatae
Colapiani
Liburnians
Histri
Catari
Japodes

these formed one group be it dress, language, customs, etc .................the others, where not mentioned

 

[Hawk]

you must be one of these people that state the Epirotes are Illyrian

all major cities in Albania are greek in origin ................from 733BC to the Roman annexation at the time of the Hannibal wars......Durres, Appolonia, Butrint to name 3 of the big towns are all Greek in origin and where still Greek when the Romans moved in .............

You are so obsessed on this part, it's beyond my understanding why, it looks you hold an agenda. So, that's why you claim Enchelei and Taulanti came from Budva, Montenegro quite late despite not having any kind of factual evidence.

Enchelei were at their peak of power during Early Iron Age and they even probably conquered Iron Age ancestors of Ancient Macedonians, Northern Greek tribes were probably paying them tribute, during Middle Iron Age Enchelei started to become more like a past of themselves, and Northern Illyrian Glasinac-Mat related tribes became more powerful like (Autariate, Ardiae). They were Southern Illyrian tribe, it is probably some of their spinoff group Pirusti who might have migrated more North near Lake Shkodra during Late Iron Age and you seem to completely over-turn the facts.

Now, back at Taulanti, i think from the few material i have read, they were native people of Dyrrachium and nearby, Greek colonizers encountered them there. It's something i don't understand, why the Illyrian tribes didn't conquer these colonizers, but probably they were paying them heavy tributes for protection and leaving them alone.

There were more Illyrian tribes bordering Epirotans down there. And yes, i am of the opinion that Epirotans were not Illyrian, nowhere in classical records anyone writes that, it's likely that Epirotans were some specific group of people, not related to Illyrians or Greeks but who latter became heavily influenced by Hellenic culture and were assimilated into this culture.

No doubt there were Greek cities in coastal Albania, but Illyrians, or cultures related to Illyrians based on material culture (the specific tumuli burial rite of Illyrian variety) scratched down to South Albania and North Epirus. It's how deep south their cultural influences scratched and probably even the language itself. Whether you like it or not.

 

[1337_]

so your claim...is that the epirotes are illyrians .............is this your thinking ?
there might be some who think this based on Pyrrhus the Epirote helping only the messapics in Italy against the Romans ..........Pyrrhus spoke similar to Messapics but could not communicate with the Daunians linguistically.....BUT......this can only be the case that Pyrrhus spoke many languages,

No I personally do not think they were Illyrians neither were Macedonians. In fact, I used to believe Macedonians might of been Thracians but I don't know.

I see now one of these Thracian sample belongs to Y-DNA R-Z93 which is the second Thracian I see with this Y-DNA and interesting

ID

Population

Eye Color

Hair Color (detailed)

Skin Pigmentation

Yfull 8.09

I20186

BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA

Brown

Brown

Pale

R-Z93

 

[1337_]

For example Strabo mentioned Epirotans as non-Greek and related to Illyrians while some others mention them as Greek. But like Hawk said, they could of been kinda their own group neither Illyrian nor Greek but later Hellenized like Macedonians and many Thracians were also Hellenized. Some Illyrians too.

 

[torzio]

You are so obsessed on this part, it's beyond my understanding why, it looks you hold an agenda. So, that's why you claim Enchelei and Taulanti came from Budva, Montenegro quite late despite not having any kind of factual evidence.

Enchelei were at their peak of power during Early Iron Age and they even probably conquered Iron Age ancestors of Ancient Macedonians, Northern Greek tribes were probably paying them tribute, during Middle Iron Age Enchelei started to become more like a past of themselves, and Northern Illyrian Glasinac-Mat related tribes became more powerful like (Autariate, Ardiae). They were Southern Illyrian tribe, it is probably some of their spinoff group Pirusti who might have migrated more North near Lake Shkodra during Late Iron Age and you seem to completely over-turn the facts.

Now, back at Taulanti, i think from the few material i have read, they were native people of Dyrrachium and nearby, Greek colonizers encountered them there. It's something i don't understand, why the Illyrian tribes didn't conquer these colonizers, but probably they were paying them heavy tributes for protection and leaving them alone.

There were more Illyrian tribes bordering Epirotans down there. And yes, i am of the opinion that Epirotans were not Illyrian, nowhere in classical records anyone writes that, it's likely that Epirotans were some specific group of people, not related to Illyrians or Greeks but who latter became heavily influenced by Hellenic culture and were assimilated into this culture.

No doubt there were Greek cities in coastal Albania, but Illyrians, or cultures related to Illyrians based on material culture (the specific tumuli burial rite of Illyrian variety) scratched down to South Albania and North Epirus. It's how deep south their cultural influences scratched and probably even the language itself. Whether you like it or not.

I already presented the facts that the Enchelei where in Budva Montenegro from 600-800BC ..................you clearly do not remember

Taulanti I am unsure.......some state they came from Montenegro and some claim they are a dardanian tribe ...........either way .............historical data states that Philip V of Macedon destroyed them as I recently stated

It has been 3 years since my claim that albanians have about 10% illyrian.......i see no change in this % ...........the only thing they came out of this is that the Labeatae is the most important illyrian tribe bordering Albania and Montenegro

Main article: Labeatae

The Labeates or Labeatae (Ancient Greek: Λαβεᾶται) were an Illyrian tribe that lived (after being defeated by Parmenio) around Scodra.[45]


The disturbing part is to justify this Illyrian claim....some Albanians, have stated that the Epirotes, Paeonians, Dardanians and Macedonians are all Illyrian


..........................

 

[torzio]

There were more Illyrian tribes bordering Epirotans down there. And yes, i am of the opinion that Epirotans were not Illyrian, nowhere in classical records anyone writes that, it's likely that Epirotans were some specific group of people, not related to Illyrians or Greeks but who latter became heavily influenced by Hellenic culture and were assimilated into this culture.

No doubt there were Greek cities in coastal Albania, but Illyrians, or cultures related to Illyrians based on material culture (the specific tumuli burial rite of Illyrian variety) scratched down to South Albania and North Epirus. It's how deep south their cultural influences scratched and probably even the language itself. Whether you like it or not.

which are the Illyrian tribes bordering Epirotes ............I named the Epirote tribes in an earlier post ...are any of these "illyrian"

BTW...I do not believe the Epirotes are Greek...........they stand on their own...like the Dardanians do

 

[mount123]

The only 2 towns in Albania which are Illyrian and the first is still in question as Greek in origin is

Skodra

and

Lissos ......( Lehze )

That is not true. And also Shkrel (Shkodra), Albania, where we got that ID I8471 J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597 (Z609+, Z628+, FT92472-, Z40053-, CTS12554-) dated at ~1788 BCE guy from. The archeological landscape of Albania is diverse and Matt-Painted Ware/Central Southern EBA (and alike) culture off shoots are clearly different from Proto-Illyrian Cetina/Dinaric/IA Glasinac-Mati in the North of the country and therefore not Illyrian. This did and will further reflect in aDNA. Northern Albania (Malesia e Madhe) is still the epi centre of Illyrian presence in Albania.