Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[blevins13]

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[blevins13]

For all intended purposes, the Byzantine chroniclers refer to them as a common denominator.

As for Vlachs, in the words of Laonicos Chalcocondyles (translation mine), " ... (they) are part of the greater nation of the Triballians and Moeseans, Illyrians and Croatians, Polanians and Sarmatians ...".



They are named as Dacians and they settled Greece " ... in Pindus, Thessaly and even in the Peloponnese, in Laconia and Taygetos mountain".

Setting aside particularities, they are a distinct population to the existing nation of the Greco-Roman at that point in time and history, and, in my opinion, are the carriers of the great numbers of E-V13 clades found in Greece today.

I have no argument against this. My point was that I see it difficult for Albanians to come from Bessi stock. If from Bessi I would expect more Greek influence.


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[Archetype0ne]

Even for more recent American colonials its often disputed, with different lines of genealogical descendants having different haplogroups and you don't know what is right.

Of course. Hence we get instances like the Basarab. My point is mainly, that for such an outstanding claim, a source is not much to ask for, and I would have expected Maciamo to have provided one.

[blevins13]

Of course. Hence we get instances like the Basarab. My point is mainly, that for such an outstanding claim, a source is not much to ask for, and I would have expected Maciamo to have provided one.

If Maciamo has listed it some kind of support he has it.


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[Excine]

In terms of language, it's obvious that Albanian is not of Bessi origin. The E-V13 "Proto-Albanian" concept is being used to reformulate a bunch of old, debunked theories.

[Hawk]

In terms of language, it's obvious that Albanian is not of Bessi origin. The E-V13 "Proto-Albanian" concept is being used to reformulate a bunch of old, debunked theories.

Why do you get so emotional if E-V13 "Proto-Albanian" gets mentioned? It's a viable option, right now much more than R1b-Z2705 or J2b2-L283 if you ask me. But, at the moment i would say books are still open.

[Excine]

Why do you get so emotional if E-V13 "Proto-Albanian" gets mentioned? It's a viable option, right now much more than R1b-Z2103 or J2b2-L283 if you ask me. But, at the moment i would say books are still open.

It's not E-V13 itself, it's the trash theory your friend Paleo has been propagating. That is some obscure 900 A.D Bessi E-V13 invasion

[blevins13]

Albanian can’t come from E-V13 alone, just as Greeks can’t come from J2a alone. A certain fusion took place, and certainly R1b was the trigger for that.


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[Excine]

Albanian can’t come from E-V13 alone, just as Greek can’t come from J2b alone. A certain fusion took place, and certainly R1b was the trigger for that.


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Greek J2b? I thought it was J2a..

[Hawk]

It's not E-V13 itself, it's the trash theory your friend Paleo has been propagating. That is some obscure 900 A.D Bessi E-V13 invasion

He has all rights to post whatever theory he wants and he thinks it's right. He didn't monopolize the hypothesis. What's wrong is you guys chimpin around.

[Excine]

He has all rights to post whatever theory he wants and he thinks it's right. He didn't monopolize the hypothesis. What's wrong is you guys chimpin around.

It's a theory that deserves no credit if it already has been debunked, at-least the linguistic implications don't match whatsoever.

[Hawk]

It's a theory that deserves no credit if it already has been debunked, at-least the linguistic implications don't match whatsoever.

Don't get me started, you have a beautifully set book from 2021 named Der Illyrer, the authors were cursed, insulted and crucified like it came from some superstitious cult members.

If you think Paleos hypothesis is debunked and has no linguistic implications just ignore it, skip it. It will not hurt. Personally, i don't support it, i don't ignore it, it's an option, why not. Just as originating somewhere slightly more West in Dardania is also an option, and Albania itself.

[blevins13]

Greek J2b? I thought it was J2a..

Correct J2a


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[torzio]

He has all rights to post whatever theory he wants and he thinks it's right. He didn't monopolize the hypothesis. What's wrong is you guys chimpin around.

( chimpin ) that's correct......Knuckle Scrapers ............as they walk

[blevins13]

He has all rights to post whatever theory he wants and he thinks it's right. He didn't monopolize the hypothesis. What's wrong is you guys chimpin around.

These “theories” for Albanians, the list goes on for many years. For most of them there is no scientific foundation but politic agendas that ultimately ended in ethnic cleaning. So yes, everyone is free to post what they want , but in the other side Albanians are more that legitimized to react sometimes even beyond ethical limits, when the same old “theories” are spinned off as new models.


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[torzio]

i stated more than 2 years ago that ancient albanians are originally Dardanian people, followed closely by Paeonians and a distant 3rd are Epirotes ( chaones more than molossians epirotes)

there is very little Illyrian ( if there is such a tribe , as it is a geographical term .....like Scandinavian is ) in Albanians ............. history also states that illyrian tribes where never in Durres and only north of the town/city............

Albanians have been taught a rubbish nationalistic propaganda commenced by the Govnt...in 1975 to establish some kind of coastal lands as they originally never had in ancient times.

it seems to me that modern albanians hate to be known as Dardanians from Kosovo for some reason that escapes me

the 2021 paper i presented even confirms this ...................maybe because its a croatian/english written paper it is ignore

[blevins13]

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[blevins13]

i stated more than 2 years ago that ancient albanians are originally Dardanian people, followed closely by Paeonians and a distant 3rd are Epirotes ( chaones more than molossians epirotes)

there is very little Illyrian ( if there is such a tribe , as it is a geographical term .....like Scandinavian is ) in Albanians ............. history also states that illyrian tribes where never in Durres and only north of the town/city............

Albanians have been taught a rubbish nationalistic propaganda commenced by the Govnt...in 1975 to establish some kind of coastal lands as they originally never had in ancient times.

it seems to me that modern albanians hate to be known as Dardanians from Kosovo for some reason that escapes me

the 2021 paper i presented even confirms this ...................maybe because its a croatian/english written paper it is ignore

So if Dardanian+ Paeonian+ Chaonian (proto-Albanians) lived in the northern Albanian/ Montenegro mountains why not. You are getting close. Keep up this good work.

One more thing, most of the people (non Albanians) in this this forum in the past have licked what they spit about the origin of Albanians.


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[mount123]

That's true. Unless we dig the bones we don't know. I am interested why Farroukh considers the E-V13 Z17107 subclade as the Bassarab lineage. But i consider him as reliable person, same as Maciamo. It's a matter of likelihoods.

I see. Well, it would make sense statistically speaking since E1b-V13>Z5017 has deep roots in the Balkan-Carpathian sphere and J2b-L283>Y22894, on the contrary, is clearly from the Western Balkans. It was just that that article was the only viable source on this matter, like the Hunyadi article, in which we see direct testing of the bones which is obviously even better. Regarding Skenderbeu there is no source at least not to my knowledge.

[Hawk]

I see. Well, it would make sense statistically speaking since E1b-V13>Z5017 has deep roots in the Balkan-Carpathian sphere and J2b-L283>Y22894, on the contrary, is clearly from the Western Balkans. It was just that that article was the only viable source on this matter, like the Hunyadi article, in which we see direct testing of the bones which is obviously even better. Regarding Skenderbeu there is no source at least not to my knowledge.

Ok, so the reason he thinks the Bassarab were: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y160670/ is that some branches from Moldova, have exactly the same subclade as the Bassarab branches from Romania: E-Y160670*. And none other repeats both in Moldova and Romania except for https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y160670/, other E-V13 subclades not, neither J2b2-L283. Eastern Moldova was known as Bassarab territory and it looks there are far more modern descendands there than in Romania.

But, the final verdict is tested bones for sure.

[mount123]

Ok, so the reason he thinks the Bassarab were: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y160670/ is that some branches from Moldova, have exactly the same subclade as the Bassarab branches from Romania: E-Y160670*. And none other repeats both in Moldova and Romania except for https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y160670/, other E-V13 subclades not, neither J2b2-L283. Eastern Moldova was known as Bassarab territory and it looks there are far more modern descendands there than in Romania.

Interesting. Makes sense and it is not surprising at all.

But, the final verdict is tested bones for sure.

Sure. Wondering why the testing of such historical figures does not really pique the interest of population geneticists.

[Hawk]

Interesting. Makes sense and it is not surprising at all.

Sure. Wondering why the testing of such historical figures does not really pique the interest of population geneticists.

Well, Vlad Tepes was almost literally insane and a psychopath, he wasn't such political figure as Hunyadi or Skanderbeg, but he was for sure more terrifying than both of them on the field. Turks and him despised each other to death.

[Hawk]

I also realized that a new sample from Hungary with FGC33621 to whom Berisha-Sop belongs has appeared in yfull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC33614/

This adds to the already present diversity in Alps and Pannonia of this particular subclade. I also don't agree with yfull's current time estimation/tmrca. It's too young estimation, something like 200-300 years younger when it should be in reverse 200-300 older approximately.