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Thread: Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

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    @Gash

    which is the line to divide West Balkans, and East Balkans,
    I mean which Geographic Marks?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Interesting list of similar words!

    There is some lack of verbs in the list but besides the meaning of Easter, paște in Romanian is also used as a verb, referring to horses, sheep, donkeys when eat, replacing the verb to feed.
    I am curious how much is understood in Albanian of what I write now in Romanian:

    Ia vino bre ! Un măgar paște lăstari pe baltă.

    Variants:

    Ia vin bre ! Un măgar paște muguri pe baltă.

    Iete măre ! Un măgar paște muguri pe baltă in amurg.

    Iete bre ! Un măgar paște muguri in brădet.
    If not their meaning, not even a word?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gash View Post




    Romanians probably occupied larger territory than that one.



    also Roman legions were indeed situated in Dacia,and most of the time on the Danubian limes,since that was the borders.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    What there should be mention is great many words of Romanian substrate are shared with Albanian.
    Common Lexic in Romanian and Albanian. Substrate and Loanwords.

    http://www.academia.edu/5766282/Comm..._and_Loanwords
    I think you need to research ancient romanian language before they changed to Latin based ..........what did they speak before the Romans arrived
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    I think you need to research ancient romanian language before they changed to Latin based ..........what did they speak before the Romans arrived
    Oh can you tell us what they spoke before Romans came?

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    This is Limes Moesiae and other linked Roman walls,Romans were present in Dacia.Modern day Romania,Moldavia north of Danube.


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    I think that if we collect all the similarly sounding words specific to the Balkan countries that do not find a correspondent in other languages outside the area, we could reconstitute a paleo-Balkanic language model. Some words, such as those already known and commonly spoken in Albania, Romania, and by the Aromanians, which are believed to have Traco-Dacian origin, and better if these words are shared with other Balkan languages like Slavic and Greek.

    other link with shared Albanian-Romanian words here: https://vdocuments.site/cuvintele-co...in-romana.html

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Ok some clearing here.
    Rather than in some ideological maps based on nothing but ipothesises we should first of all define:

    1) wich of the words, verbs, grammar rules, features of albanian are originally derived from it's original ancestor and wich ones are imported.

    2) is albanian a satem, a centum or a centumized satem, or what? (I personally think it is clearly a centumized satem, i am gonna explain later on).

    3) basing ourselves on the discoveries made by following the previews points suggest with wich language group does it link?

    Without following this methodology of work we are only ********.

    My personal views:
    Albanian was originally a satem language but got centumized by the influx of latin, circa 40% of albanian vocabulary is latin derived and we got yet to define if only vocabulary or even some grammar + phrase formation features are derived from latin, and it clearly appears that a lot more then just words in albanian come from latin, for example phrase structure.

    EXAMPLE:

    english: what have you done?

    ITA: cosa(what) hai(have you) fatto(done)?

    AL: ça(what) ke(have you) bër(done)?

    Now, to understand from who modern albanian got to have come we have to understand from who the albanians cone from.
    Albanians certenly come from a group of balkanic people that for some kind of rebellion got massacred by the romans, those few who survived the decimation from the romans hided on the mountains of montenegro/kosovo, since now albanian was isolated, so no more latin influence could come into albanian.
    This clearly explains the half latinization of albanians instead of a full latinization, as was the case for romanians and dalmatians.

    So we have to define now exactly who rebelled and got killed during roman times in the western balkans because of a rebellion in order to understand who are the albanians.

    Then if we can define that albanian originally was satem we can proove that linguistically albanian doesn't come from illyrian even if they have a genetic connection with them, this because illyrian was a centum language.

    Examples of latin words getting satemized in albanian (or at least you can see an attempt to do so)

    ITA: AL:
    gola gushë
    cappuccio këpushë
    spada shpatë
    corto shkurtër
    pidocchio plesht
    ospizio(casa) shtëpi
    rumore zhurmë
    vestirsi të vishesh
    causa shkak
    schiacciare të shtypësh
    calpestare të shkelësh
    valorizzare të vlersosh
    scoppio shpërthim
    somma shtes
    cammino shkoj/heci
    come si
    perchè pse
    chi kush
    colonizzo sundoj

    This is what i can tell you with my knowledge as an albanian native speaker.


    Now as a conclusion albanians could probably have common ancestors eith romanians, linguistically and genetically( in both you can find significant amounts of J2b + E-V13 haplougroups as a link, and gess what in romanians these 2 haplos are mostly typical of south romania (wallachia) closer to albania, and divided by the rest of europe by the carpatians, making the are of kosovo/macedonia the perfect hotspot for the development of both.)

    Albanians come from a group of these albano-romanians who caused some riots in the area (as we historically do under foreign rule :) ) and got almost wiped out by the romans, so they hided on the mountanous area of montenegro, while romanians, those who stayed calm and chilled stayed where they were and kept on getting latinized by the romans, and during christian times getting influenced by greek christianity who then in 1054 will develop into orthodoxy, explaying why the romanians, even if heavily influenced linguistically/culturally by latin sided with the greeks in religious choices by choosing orthodoxy over catholicism.
    This even explains the heavy presence of aromanians in Tetovo, Grabovo so macedonia and their expantion to south albania (closer to macedonia) rather than in north albania, because that's the homeland of both aromanians + romanians and even of albanians before making riots in the area and getting almost wiped out by the romans.
    Then the romanian speaking people migrated later to moldova + wallhachia, and very recently to transylvania, so over the carpathians + there they even found some latin speaking settlers from rome, so their latin component strenghtened up even more and so did their national identity.

    Why they migrated there then? cuz as albanians and aromanians, romanians too were shepherds so were rather seasonal nomads rather then sedentary farmers or cattle herders.

    An intresnting thing to strenghten up my theory is albanian/romanian/aromanian typical costumes and the use of qeleshe who tie them up together.

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    Finally, some here I can speak.


    2 questions

    1rst.
    The case of Antes, a basic part of modern Romanians,
    has it passed to Albanians? or not?

    I think it is a good question, to start realize,

    the second is too early to be asked.
    need some more genetic samples, from all balkans,


    @ Gannicus
    Albanian is Satem 2, as Armenian
    It is Satem, but it is of its own rules
    like Armenian,
    most believe it is uncomplete satemization specially with kw and gw
    they both seem to appear among limits/frontier of centum and full satem 1,

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Ok some clearing here.
    Rather than in some ideological maps based on nothing but ipothesises we should first of all define:

    1) wich of the words, verbs, grammar rules, features of albanian are originally derived from it's original ancestor and wich ones are imported.

    2) is albanian a satem, a centum or a centumized satem, or what? (I personally think it is clearly a centumized satem, i am gonna explain later on).

    3) basing ourselves on the discoveries made by following the previews points suggest with wich language group does it link?

    Without following this methodology of work we are only ********.

    My personal views:
    Albanian was originally a satem language but got centumized by the influx of latin, circa 40% of albanian vocabulary is latin derived and we got yet to define if only vocabulary or even some grammar + phrase formation features are derived from latin, and it clearly appears that a lot more then just words in albanian come from latin, for example phrase structure.

    EXAMPLE:

    english: what have you done?

    ITA: cosa(what) hai(have you) fatto(done)?

    AL: ça(what) ke(have you) bër(done)?

    Now, to understand from who modern albanian got to have come we have to understand from who the albanians cone from.
    Albanians certenly come from a group of balkanic people that for some kind of rebellion got massacred by the romans, those few who survived the decimation from the romans hided on the mountains of montenegro/kosovo, since now albanian was isolated, so no more latin influence could come into albanian.
    This clearly explains the half latinization of albanians instead of a full latinization, as was the case for romanians and dalmatians.

    So we have to define now exactly who rebelled and got killed during roman times in the western balkans because of a rebellion in order to understand who are the albanians.

    Then if we can define that albanian originally was satem we can proove that linguistically albanian doesn't come from illyrian even if they have a genetic connection with them, this because illyrian was a centum language.

    Examples of latin words getting satemized in albanian (or at least you can see an attempt to do so)

    ITA: AL:
    gola gushë
    cappuccio këpushë
    spada shpatë
    corto shkurtër
    pidocchio plesht
    ospizio(casa) shtëpi
    rumore zhurmë
    vestirsi të vishesh
    causa shkak
    schiacciare të shtypësh
    calpestare të shkelësh
    valorizzare të vlersosh
    scoppio shpërthim
    somma shtes
    cammino shkoj/heci
    come si
    perchè pse
    chi kush
    colonizzo sundoj

    This is what i can tell you with my knowledge as an albanian native speaker.


    Now as a conclusion albanians could probably have common ancestors eith romanians, linguistically and genetically( in both you can find significant amounts of J2b + E-V13 haplougroups as a link, and gess what in romanians these 2 haplos are mostly typical of south romania (wallachia) closer to albania, and divided by the rest of europe by the carpatians, making the are of kosovo/macedonia the perfect hotspot for the development of both.)

    Albanians come from a group of these albano-romanians who caused some riots in the area (as we historically do under foreign rule :) ) and got almost wiped out by the romans, so they hided on the mountanous area of montenegro, while romanians, those who stayed calm and chilled stayed where they were and kept on getting latinized by the romans, and during christian times getting influenced by greek christianity who then in 1054 will develop into orthodoxy, explaying why the romanians, even if heavily influenced linguistically/culturally by latin sided with the greeks in religious choices by choosing orthodoxy over catholicism.
    This even explains the heavy presence of aromanians in Tetovo, Grabovo so macedonia and their expantion to south albania (closer to macedonia) rather than in north albania, because that's the homeland of both aromanians + romanians and even of albanians before making riots in the area and getting almost wiped out by the romans.
    Then the romanian speaking people migrated later to moldova + wallhachia, and very recently to transylvania, so over the carpathians + there they even found some latin speaking settlers from rome, so their latin component strenghtened up even more and so did their national identity.

    Why they migrated there then? cuz as albanians and aromanians, romanians too were shepherds so were rather seasonal nomads rather then sedentary farmers or cattle herders.

    An intresnting thing to strenghten up my theory is albanian/romanian/aromanian typical costumes and the use of qeleshe who tie them up together.
    When happened these albano-romanian riots?
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.
    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.
    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.
    O me zhabat në moçale, o me zhgabat lart në male!
    -Petro Nini Luarasi-

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Interesting list of similar words!

    There is some lack of verbs in the list but besides the meaning of Easter, paște in Romanian is also used as a verb, referring to horses, sheep, donkeys when eat, replacing the verb to feed.

    I am curious how much is understood in Albanian of what I write now in Romanian:

    Ia vino bre ! Un măgar paște lăstari pe baltă.

    Variants:

    Ia vin bre ! Un măgar paște muguri pe baltă.

    Iete măre ! Un măgar paște muguri pe baltă in amurg.

    Iete bre ! Un măgar paște muguri in brădet.
    Come bre/more! A donkey paste (you said eat) lastari in the mud.

    Magar is used for donkey in Kosovo and the surrounding areas whereas in Albania we say gomar and very few near the border with Kosovo magjar (kind of like madzhiar).

    In Kosovo it would be smth like: Eja bre/more! Ni magar po han .... n'balt.

    amurg = muzg (I used google translator)

    Vin I understood from Italian although we used "vin" in "ata po vin" - they are coming, or ai po vjen - he is coming.

    So in reality I only understood magar and balta.

    While translating your text, I discovered that lastari in Italian is germoglio, which as per wikipedia its the unearthed bud/sprout. In Albanian germoj means 'dig' (to dig the earth) and again by coincidence to unearth in Romanian is apparently ingropat, whereas gropa in Albanian means pit/whole. Although grob in South Slavic and West Slavic means tomb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Finally, some here I can speak.


    2 questions

    1rst.
    The case of Antes, a basic part of modern Romanians,
    has it passed to Albanians? or not?

    I think it is a good question, to start realize,

    the second is too early to be asked.
    need some more genetic samples, from all balkans,
    I don't actually understand at the moment what you mean by antes, can you explain, maybe it's a common thing regarding us albanians but we just call it differently.

    Then about the balkans DNA, yes we should have more samples, but even with those that we already have we can see that the romanian have significant quantities of J2b and E-V13 most exclusively in south romania (Wallachia) while there is almost a comolete lack in transylvania, this can be explained by the carpathians who acted as a natural barrirmers between south balkans and central/estern europe, for this reason romanians had it easier to go to the lands northern than bulgaria then were most of the modern romania lays.
    After going there they found some latin settlers mostly in Buzau and moldova and they intermixed with them creating a common linguistical/cultural identity.
    After settling there in moldova the I2 carriers who were local people where romanized but they almost totally absorbed the genetic cobtribution of J2b and E-V13 brought by proto-romanians, so we have modern Romania, and not even sopeaking about how romanian speaking people happened to be founf over the carpathians in transylvania, that's a medieval pheonomena caused by the hungarians, they need some loyal vassal to rule over those lands, probably partially empty due to the absorbtion of the local by jugoslavs and their migration towards modern day serbia, croatia and bosnja, so the hungarians took romanized people from moldova, this explains the high I2 + R1a of both transilvanya and moldova while having almost a complete lack of these 2 haplos southwords to wallachia.
    The only R1a you can find south of the carpathian is bulgarian one coming from ukraine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Come bre/more! A donkey paste (you said eat) lastari in the mud.

    Magar is used for donkey in Kosovo and the surrounding areas whereas in Albania we say gomar and very few near the border with Kosovo magjar (kind of like madzhiar).

    In Kosovo it would be smth like: Eja bre/more! Ni magar po han .... n'balt.

    amurg = muzg (I used google translator)

    Vin I understood from Italian although we used "vin" in "ata po vin" - they are coming, or ai po vjen - he is coming.

    So in reality I only understood magar and balta.

    While translating your text, I discovered that lastari in Italian is germoglio, which as per wikipedia its the unearthed bud/sprout. In Albanian germoj means 'dig' (to dig the earth) and again by coincidence to unearth in Romanian is apparently ingropat, whereas gropa in Albanian means pit/whole. Although grob in South Slavic and West Slavic means tomb.
    Bravo, exatly you made a very good linguisticak analysis, this only strenghtens up my thaught of a common albanian/romanian/aromanian common origin wich probably happened between kosovo and macedonia.


    P.s. romanians to use gomarru to mean donkey i've heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post



    Saw this video, found it to be a good intro to some basics.

    Very intresting video, the conclusiona i can make is that E-V13 haplogroup carriers carried albaniana language, how can it be indo european?? because it is an indoeuropean language that was probably spoken in anatolia, one of the cradles of indoeuropeans, probably albanians are sl dardanians, meaning anatolians who then migrated to modern day kosovo, but not illyrian, the illyrian component genetically come from R1b, while there is a, probably cetina or of some other culture coming from J2b, so albanian ia an indo-european anatolian language originally, this explains why its ancient exchanges with doric greek and its contributions to it, i remind you that the same kind of civilization you could find in dardania you could find it in western anatolia, so fo sure dardanians were very civilized people, but not illyrians, R1b carriers among albanians are illyrians.
    Illyrian language was a centum language who was fully latinized and evolved into dalmatian.

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    Gannicus,
    Nations are recent formations, but we are clear genetically close in Balkans, and from what I understand, the Romanians are not so close to the Albanians as they are first to the geographically closest peples, like those in Bulgaria, Serbia and even Ukraine or Hungary to a certain extent.
    Also I think that Albanians, Romanians, and most of those in the Balkans have not been migrants but stable for thousands of years in the places where they were. So they had formed an old linguistic fund that still keeps something until today.
    Last edited by gidai; 12-01-19 at 01:28.

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    So the definitive origin of proto-albanian language is outside of the balkans, in anatolia, but its evolution happened into the balkans, so the best candidates even geographically are kosovo and macedonia.
    If there were albanians who went northwards to montenegro and hercegovina it happened baceause of the massacre i have read about of wich i wrote up before, this can be explained by the lack of E-V13 subclades in the whole balkans, it had a recent expansio from a small place, kosovo+macedonia.
    Otherwise we would be able to find it up to modern day slovenia, but we do not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    So the definitive origin of proto-albanian language is outside of the balkans, in anatolia, but its evolution happened into the balkans, so the best candidates even geographically are kosovo and macedonia.
    If there were albanians who went northwards to montenegro and hercegovina it happened baceause of the massacre i have read about of wich i wrote up before, this can be explained by the lack of E-V13 subclades in the whole balkans, it had a recent expansio from a small place, kosovo+macedonia.
    Otherwise we would be able to find it up to modern day slovenia, but we do not.
    But there were riots or a massacre and when did these things happen? Where did you read it?

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    Yes, but i gotta correct you about the romanians, we got links with them through the haplogroups E-V13 and J2b but they went eastwards being shepherds so where they resettled they absorbed and got absorbes by the locals, R1a + I2 people, in south romania you find mostly J2b+E-V13, and it is not very distant from macedonia, while in moldova they settled and affected linguistically the locals by romanizing them, but the assimilation was only cultural/linguistical, cuz the locals dominated genetically due to their numbers so they still are majority with their R1a+I2, then you haven't taken into account the later arrival of slavs in the region and their heavy effect on romanians, ang guess what slavs carry?? R1a and I2.
    While about transilvanya it's just a later expansion of romanian speaking moldovans under the hungarian rule: the are was unpopulated due to the massacres made by the avars and the khazarian khanate, not to mention bulgars and early magyars who were kinda aggressive in those areas, so hungarians probably needed some settlers to rule those regions and they invites romanian speaking moldovans, not wallhachians cuz of the carpathian barrier wich made impossible any early contact.
    Or it is even more probable that early romanians being shpherds like albanians, had even the military skills of albanians and for this were like by the hungarians who needed strong vassals.
    This has been seen with the cumans a turkic group of peole who was invite to settle in transylvania in exchange of military service to the hungarians.

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    Bro i am working on finding it, i am trying to remember where i read it but still haven't figured it out, still i am 100% sure of this thing as a fact, once i find the source you are gonna be the first to read it ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Bro i am working on finding it, i am trying to remember where i read it but still haven't figured it out, still i am 100% sure of this thing as a fact, once i find the source you are gonna be the first to read it ;)
    This was an answer to my questions or was addressed to others?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    This was an answer to my questions or was addressed to others?
    It was referred tou you bro ;)

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    Now, what about the link between epirotes and tosks??
    + was tosk/gheg difference even a thing during classical antiquity.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    It was referred tou you bro ;)
    Practically all this your theory that you have exposed here is based on events that have never happened but are the result of your uncontrollable imagination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Come bre/more! A donkey paste (you said eat) lastari in the mud.
    Magar is used for donkey in Kosovo and the surrounding areas whereas in Albania we say gomar and very few near the border with Kosovo magjar (kind of like madzhiar).
    In Kosovo it would be smth like: Eja bre/more! Ni magar po han .... n'balt.
    amurg = muzg (I used google translator)
    Vin I understood from Italian although we used "vin" in "ata po vin" - they are coming, or ai po vjen - he is coming.
    So in reality I only understood magar and balta.
    While translating your text, I discovered that lastari in Italian is germoglio, which as per wikipedia its the unearthed bud/sprout. In Albanian germoj means 'dig' (to dig the earth) and again by coincidence to unearth in Romanian is apparently ingropat, whereas gropa in Albanian means pit/whole. Although grob in South Slavic and West Slavic means tomb.
    coming in italian is not vin
    vin is wine from the word vino

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    Of, curse, so spartacus never rebelled and never caused trouble in ancient rome, and there never were documented rebellions and massacres of rioting slaves by the romans, so even slavery itself is a creation of imagination.
    OK doctor Laberia, instead of telling everyone how stupid he is, that is your best field, bring ua your arguments instead, and let's see how much of your stuff makes sense, cuz you know it appears everyone else is a charlatan expect from you.

    P.S. at the end of the day did you convince your self about the slavic influx of I2a in south albania and about the slavic origin of a lot of toponyms in south albania??

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